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The Dishonesty & Danger Inherent In The seeingUFOsPA Hoax

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posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by KIZZZY

Dude, dudette, whatever - When was the last time I recommended seeingUFOsPA on YouTube? Months ago?


You're a crazy stalker, IMHO. Please leave me alone.




posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 04:37 PM
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Originally posted by sandwiches
When was the last time I recommended seeingUFOsPA on YouTube? Months ago?


Actually, you link to her videos in your sig....which means you are recommending people view her videos.



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by sandwiches
reply to post by diamount


So where are her other rabid defenders? You're the only one to openly defender her despite overwhelming evidence being posted.

Do you only believe in things if people rabidly defend them? Are you looking for a herd of popular opinion to follow, so you can feel like part of a group?

Just because you're overwhelmed doesn't mean it's the truth. Dare to play the devil's advocate to seek a greater understanding of both sides. Search ATS for "seeingUFOsPA" and look through each page of each thread. You will find there are more people who have questions and want a neutral discussion.

reply to post by KIZZZY


You are going around soliciting Alison to other channels on YT, therefore, you are NOT objective!

I tell people to consider it because I'm curious and like receiving feedback. So what? I don't follow you around criticizing everything you do.


Why? Because your mind is already made up. If you were a critical thinker, you would have already applied yourself into some serious rebuttal video or in your "investigative research" would finally come up with the invariable "TRUTH'!

Why are you so pushy? I'll get to further investigation in my own time. Chill out. The truth will be discovered by all eventually. What are you so worried about??? Are you scared of ETs?


reply to post by zaiger


And when will you realize that just because someone does not agree with you does not mean that they have been brainwashed by mufon and facts.

I never called anyone brainwashed. Perhaps I will observe their findings today.

# fact - a concept whose truth can be proved; "scientific hypotheses are not facts"

[edit on 2010-6-9 by sandwiches]


MUFON is considered a neutral (ie unaffiliated by the government) party and dismissed her recordings as commercial aircraft/helicopters



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 05:04 PM
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reply to post by gavron

KIZZY was talking about YouTube. You link to whatever you want, I'll link to whatever I want. I added them because I wasn't allowed to open a neutral discussion on some recent footage.

Perhaps I am over-reacting, but I have seen a lot of attacks against Alison and so far I don't think she is being given a fair opportunity to state her case.

Somehow I don't think people's efforts to discredit her are solely because of laser-pointing. Just a hunch I intend to follow up on, if you don't mind.


reply to post by diamount


MUFON is considered a neutral (ie unaffiliated by the government) party and dismissed her recordings as commercial aircraft/helicopters

Yep, it was covered a few times in previous pages. Do you think MUFON is somehow magically immune to all influence?



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 05:07 PM
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Originally posted by sandwiches
reply to post by gavron

KIZZY was talking about YouTube. You link to whatever you want, I'll link to whatever I want. I added them because I wasn't allowed to open a neutral discussion on some recent footage.

Perhaps I am over-reacting, but I have seen a lot of attacks against Alison and so far I don't think she is being given a fair opportunity to state her case.

Somehow I don't think people's efforts to discredit her are solely because of laser-pointing. Just a hunch I intend to follow up on, if you don't mind.


reply to post by diamount


MUFON is considered a neutral (ie unaffiliated by the government) party and dismissed her recordings as commercial aircraft/helicopters

Yep, it was covered a few times in previous pages. Do you think MUFON is somehow magically immune to all influence?


Depends on how you mean.. influenced by who and why?

I'm afriad Alison isn't big enough to attract the US Government because most of her antics are downright crazy.



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 05:26 PM
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reply to post by diamount


Depends on how you mean.. influenced by who and why?

Be creative.



I'm afriad Alison isn't big enough to attract the US Government because most of her antics are downright crazy.

How do you know this? You're entitled to your opinion.



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 05:32 PM
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Originally posted by sandwiches
reply to post by diamount


Depends on how you mean.. influenced by who and why?

Be creative.



I'm afriad Alison isn't big enough to attract the US Government because most of her antics are downright crazy.

How do you know this? You're entitled to your opinion.




It's already been discussed in detail - shining a laser at commercial aircraft trying to provoke a response from them which is inherently dangerous in it's own right.



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 05:37 PM
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reply to post by diamount


It's already been discussed in detail - shining a laser at commercial aircraft trying to provoke a response from them which is inherently dangerous in it's own right.

Yeah, I was there.


I responded in two parts to your one statement.


I'm afriad Alison isn't big enough to attract the US Government

How do you know this?


because most of her antics are downright crazy.

You're entitled to your opinion.

Hey, why do you magically have a star less than one minute after every single post?? Can I join your fan club or are only bots allowed? I jest.



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 05:45 PM
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Originally posted by sandwiches
reply to post by diamount


It's already been discussed in detail - shining a laser at commercial aircraft trying to provoke a response from them which is inherently dangerous in it's own right.

Yeah, I was there.


I responded in two parts to your one statement.


I'm afriad Alison isn't big enough to attract the US Government

How do you know this?


because most of her antics are downright crazy.

You're entitled to your opinion.

Hey, why do you magically have a star less than one minute after every single post?? Can I join your fan club or are only bots allowed? I jest.


Because they would discredit her themselves but because there is nothing to discredit as it's blatantly obvious what she is filming and they KNOW she has not got a leg to stand on.

Only things like from Wikileaks do they take seriously as they've repeatedly tried to take down the site under some law they wrote up and that is probably why their servers are based ina different country.

Onto the star thing - such things are used when people are in agreement which is now obviously the case, I'm not close minded either I believe in UFOs like the Belgian 1989 case, Roswell.. all those classic cases with thousands of credible witnesses either former military or policing figures.

Now some crazed fanbase sending people death threats to people who have proven most of her stuff is bunk.. that my friend is denying ignorance which this site opposes to the max it is why Springer made it clear that all threads related to hear are to be moved to the hoax forum.



[edit on 9/6/2010 by diamount]



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 06:00 PM
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reply to post by diamount


Because they would discredit her themselves but because there is nothing to discredit as it's blatantly obvious what she is filming and they KNOW she has not got a leg to stand on.

If the government's not worried, why are you?



Now some crazed fanbase sending people death threats to people who have proven most of her stuff is bunk.. that my friend is denying ignorance

It's not denying ignorance if you've never heard about it. How was she found to be responsible? If you know of any of these people please let me know where to find them so I can try to help them relax.



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 06:07 PM
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Originally posted by sandwiches
reply to post by diamount


Because they would discredit her themselves but because there is nothing to discredit as it's blatantly obvious what she is filming and they KNOW she has not got a leg to stand on.

If the government's not worried, why are you?



Now some crazed fanbase sending people death threats to people who have proven most of her stuff is bunk.. that my friend is denying ignorance

It's not denying ignorance if you've never heard about it. How was she found to be responsible? If you know of any of these people please let me know where to find them so I can try to help them relax.


I'm not saying she asked her fanbase to say these things but it's something that is proving to be out of control if anyone dares speak against the norm in the clips she uploads.

Also who said anything about being worried? I'm simply saying if they're not paying her any attention then it's obviously they're not concerned of her 'undeniable proof'.

We've received many apparent UFO/Alien contactees being mysterious killed in suspicious circumstances and this is not counting the numerous mysterious deaths of JFK/9/11 assassin witnesses

Phill Schenider is an excellent example

Anyway I am off to bed as it's very late where I live, I'll see how this thread has progressed in the morning.



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 06:11 PM
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reply to post by diamount

Well, I don't think it's fair to demonize everyone asking questions because of the actions of a few lunatics. I can assure you I'm not an intolerant psychopath.

After having seen many of his presentations, I wondered about Phil Schneider for a while. Someone recently mentioned his age, claiming his education and time spent in black ops don't add up, so I need to investigate that.



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 06:26 PM
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reply to post by sandwiches
 


Sandwich, may I make a suggestion? Since you have discovered a some new areas in the Alison Kruse case that warrant further investigation, wouldn't it be fair to say that you making a definitive claim that she is not hoaxing is a little hasty and presumptuous?
At best it would behoove you to remove/change your ATS signature, and keep asking questions....



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 06:28 PM
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reply to post by NightVision

A thoughtful and fair appeal. I might just be able to do that now that there's actually a thread open where I can talk about it.


That better?


[edit on 2010-6-9 by sandwiches]



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 06:38 PM
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Originally posted by sandwiches
reply to post by NightVision

A thoughtful and fair appeal. I might just be able to do that now that there's actually a thread open where I can talk about it.


That better?





Good work, Sandwich. An ability to reason is a crucial trait for duty in the ATS army. there may be hope for you yet, soldier


Now drop n give me 20, private Pyle!!



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 09:00 PM
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Originally posted by Netties Hermit

Originally posted by sandwiches

How does she harm people any more than the average person with night-vision?




I am a normally quiet reader of the Aliens and UFOs forum but if I may, I would like to have a crack your above query.

With all due respect sandwiches, the woman points lasers at aeroplanes. Do you not see this as dangerous?

In fact, I remember seeing one of her videos where she was egging on a young boy (her son?) to point the laser ... and when he didn't want to she egged him on more, almost taunting him. This disturbed me greatly ... I was quite horrified.

I realise that this video may now have been taken off youtube, and so you once again will say there is no proof. Does any other member here remember this?

OK - now back in my cave I go.

- Hermit

[edit on 8/6/2010 by Netties Hermit]



YES i remember and when we reported her to the FAA she removed it. But we still have the videos saved. I believe Z has this on one of his debunking videos. In another video she has some teenagers at her house "friends of her daughter" and she is asking them what they see and they reply "airplane" and she begins to taunt them. She becomes belligerent until they give up and say "yeah we see what you are seeing. You could cut the tension in the room with a knife at this point.

And this is how she is dangerous she forces and bullies kids in to following her insanity. The guy she calls "army guy" who was at her house emailed me and told me she was not all there. Turns out he is a paranormal investigator for murraysville. He said he thought she was harmless and a nice lady but she was clearly delusional.

here is the video where Alison forces her cultish ways on the teens

description;FlacidMERC — March 24, 2010 — In this installment of Debunking the Orb Queen, we find her holding court over some pre-teen scientists who were there to analyze and prove her case. What transpired was utterly hilarious. In ther video we watch in astonishment as she leads these teenagers by the nose and manipulates their thoughts to conform to her private beliefs. Can you say Cult leader. Hmmmmmmmm.
When will she realize that the UFO community is not interested in her hoaxes which explains why she is on her channels begging people to come down and lend some credibility to her assertions.
YEAH RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



MANTA RAY? TR3A Black Manta
en.wikipedia.org...

MAN MADE CONVENTIONAL CRAFT "NOT FROM ORION"




Originally posted by sandwiches
reply to post by KIZZZY

Dude, dudette, whatever - When was the last time I recommended seeingUFOsPA on YouTube? Months ago?


You're a crazy stalker, IMHO. Please leave me alone.


KIZZY is a stalker for stating you are uneducated and ignorant to the facts? I am inclined to agree with KIZZY... does that make me a stalker too? This is exactly what Alison would say and she is the one who originally coined "my douche bag stalkers" cop out.

Are you Alison?
Are you a member of her cult?

Yes we sandwiches are trailing you in a long black car


now look in to the flashy thing and forget this happened



[edit on 9-6-2010 by Unknown Soldier]



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 09:35 PM
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reply to post by Unknown Soldier

Allow me to critique this video (I know you want me to).

I will agree it is quite a rough situation for Alison, but there is an unpleasant surprise (for you).

- Even if it turned out to be a plane in this video, it doesn't mean she has not captured real UFOs.
- So what if they don't believe her and laugh at her or she gets nervous and says stupid stuff? That's what teens do. That has no bearing on what's being filmed and does not prove intentional deception.
- Saying "stupidity is contagious" and other incessant derogatory comments are unnecessary and don't help the author's credibility of character. Where's the professionalism? Are they trying to steal / force more opinion than they are reasonably entitled to? How can anyone support that??
- 4:51 watch as a "meteor" falls to the ground.
Amazing epic debunker fail. I think he should remove this video, because she's obviously filming weird stuff.


I think this guy needs to be more careful that he doesn't include UFOs in his trash videos.


Thanks for finding another meteor for me (rofl)


[edit on 2010-6-9 by sandwiches]



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 09:44 PM
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Originally posted by sandwiches
reply to post by Unknown Soldier

Allow me to critique this video (I know you want me to).

I will agree it is quite a rough situation for Alison, but there is an unpleasant surprise (for you).

- Even if it turned out to be a plane in this video, it doesn't mean she has not captured real UFOs.
- So what if they don't believe her and laugh at her or she gets nervous and says stupid stuff? That's what teens do. That has no bearing on what's being filmed and does not prove intentional deception.
- Saying "stupidity is contagious" and other incessant derogatory comments are unnecessary and don't help the author's credibility of character. Where's the professionalism? Are they trying to steal / force more opinion then they are reasonably entitled to? How can anyone support that??
- 4:51 watch as a "meteor" falls to the ground.
Amazing epic debunker fail. I think he should remove this video, because she's obviously filming weird stuff.


I think this guy needs to be more careful that he doesn't include UFOs in his trash videos.


Good find, thanks


[edit on 2010-6-9 by sandwiches]






Again you are ignoring the facts and further bury you're head in the sand.
UFO - Unidentified Flying Object

The air craft have been identified , i even agreed she had a TR3B in one of her videos and that belongs to US! They are not uncommon to see. I have seen one before fly over in the service "bosnia" in 96.

They have been in service since at least 1989 , the aurora project
the precursor to the stealth fighter and bomber developed in the 1970's
What do you think trillions of dollars on the black budget is spent on?

Not Aliens from Orion. I told her what it was and she changed the subject and would NOT discuss it. She will not acknowledge man made craft - will get to that

I updated my last post on what the craft sounds like in her description, although she is a compulsive liar it is probably a Cessna.

But here lies the problem, TR3B and the TR3A dissolves the 'aliens from orion" bull crap.
Bull crap she got from orionifo Phil.

A UFO is not an alien vehicle by default , to Alison and her cult they are aliens. Even her friend Phanarab agreed with me. Her most devout follower until recent. She would not discuss it with him being "NON ET" and man made. Which i suspect is why he stopped supporting her.



I am a believer that aliens are here and have been here
I am an experiencer and i will not go in to that. And have seen UFO's more than once. That i can not explain... a cigar to be exact.


I care about this subject , i take it serious. This is WHY is sided with skeptics , debunkers ect whatever you want to call them and i have learned from them
that it is not just psuedo skeptics but that they separate the real from the fake. I want the REAL thing and will not settle for less. Nor will i tolerate cults.


Critical thinking is mandatory in this subject!

Alison does not care what it is she only cares about the scam.

As you enable and are a enabler of this woman's delusions.

Meteorites are a reality

You are not only being dishonest with us "who know better" you are being dishonest with yourself whom does not seem to know better.
Which proves the whole point of this thread. Or should i say "Sandwich proved the whole point of this thread"

Z's videos have brought Alisons cult ambitions to a screaming halt. He must be doing something right.




[edit on 9-6-2010 by Unknown Soldier]



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 10:23 PM
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reply to post by Unknown Soldier

I will try to retain my composure. Sorry, my post was confusing. The alleged meteor is the UFO I was referring to. In any investigation you have due process. In this case, it involves analyzing footage and discovering corroborating statements and findings. A second meteor-UFO lends credibility to Alison's claims that something enters like this regularly. I'm just sayin'
. I'm not enabling or supporting or whatever else you've imagined, so back off.

Are there ways to predict meteors? How prevalent are they really in PA? Surely you have asked yourself these questions.

Remain vigilant.



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 10:59 PM
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reply to post by Unknown Soldier


The MUFON State Director of Pennsylvania did personally investigate on site the claims of this witness two months ago. After spending over two hours viewing what the witness claims is alien craft flying around her home, the MUFON State Director of Pennsylvania came to the conclusion that what she is filming is "MAN-MADE CONVENTIONAL AIRCRAFT." That is the conclusion presented in his final report and the case was CLOSED. It was AFTER the State Director visited the witness on site and gave her his conclusion that she then started calling them "FAKE AIRPLANES."


Are you absolutely kidding me? The whole reason for ATS automatically moving seeingUFOsPA videos to the hoax bin is based on a TWO HOUR INVESTIGATION? Alison has probably hundreds of hours of footage!

My my my, it does not look good for fair scientific process.


I'm disappointed in you ATS, I really am.




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