I am a Christian although I do not belong in any set group of organized religions.

My question is, was organized religion or any type of belief in Supreme Being invented by man to control man? Are we taught that God wants us to do this and God wants us to do that, only to keep us in our little maze like mice?

Anyone have any theories like this?

My question is, was organized religion or any type of belief in Supreme Being invented by man to control man? Are we taught that God wants us to do this and God wants us to do that, only to keep us in our little maze like mice?

Religion was created by man, Despite that, our Spiritual selves still seek our own truth. A belief in God, or Goddess survives DESPITE Religion

but why does it survive? Because we created it? We created with this whole idea of a Holy Being that just set us on earth and watched what happened. Like an experiment?

Maybe because Man, as a creature, needs absolutes, or else he feels like he is wandering aimlessly. I am gerealizing, of course. Man was not in control of his surroundings. Thunder, Lightning, Nature Disasters, were all the work of "God's", (or Goddesses).

Appeasing these God's became a way of controlling the uncontrollable.

Make sense?

How can you claim to be a Christian if you claim to not belong to anything organized?

A Christian is literally translated - One who is Christ Like (Like Jesus Christ)
Whether or not you belong to a "church" does not meen you don't belong to an organized religion. Christianity was and has been organized from it's inception - the moment Jesus sent out His 12 apostals to witness of the kingdom.

But to answer your question - NO, organized religion (True Christianity that is) was never developed as a means to control - that would violate our free will.

When I say "organized religion" I mean as far as Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran etc.


Man doesn't care about free will. You tell your children what to do. Don't touch that and they don't because you told them not to. You are violating that free will. God doesn't violate man's free will, but man can violate it. Do you see what I'm saying? I think I confused myself.


[edit on 9-6-2004 by kaoscreator]

There has been organized religion since the time of cavemen. Its just that people choose to exploit the religion. I agree with the fact that humans always saw nature as a high power than them and tried to connect with it and appease it throughout history. The more scientific discoveries we encounter, the more we realize there is a high order to nature, which would denote a higher intelligent power. This has probably always been an inherent belief among humans.

I'm a long time atheist, so I tend to look at religon as a tool of control. What better way to control the masses than through eternal damnation.

I always liked this quote from Napoleon.

Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet.
Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich. -Napoleon Bonaparte

Unfortunately these days there is no black and white on this issue.
Remember, there are two "churches".

1. Apostate (i like to call it the little 'c' church)
2. The True Church (capital 'C')

the Apostate's goal is to control the masses as this gives them power and it is this power that they desire to keep (refer back to the Roman & Jewish hierarchy at the time of Jesus - ea. wanted to preserve their "power" therefore HE had to die.)

The True Church's Goal is to save mankind from their sins, no different than what Jesus' intent was on earth - and he did it, it' now up to the "'C" body of believers to witness the truth to as many as possible before it's too late.

The 'c' wants man to die in their sins - that's why they tell you you can make up your own "truth" - your own "messiah" - and that truth is relative.

The 'c' likes to make you fell all nice and warm and fuzzy where you are.
No different than the way a trapper sets out a nice juicy steak for his prey.

Cool?

sorry Birkhoff-

I disagree. And it is a bit too legalistic in my book that it's an "us-vs-them" scenerio. I hate to be the one to point this out, but you sound just a wee bit elitist, and way too legalistic for my tastes.

We will all find out in the end.

Until then, everyone's Spiritual Journey is their own.


[edit on 04-08-2004 by ladyspiritguide]

You are correct that we will all find out in the end.

I would rather know now than later.
Call me legalistic or elitist if you want.

But an elitist is what the apostates are - they do not want mankind saved.
I DO.

<>< B

BTW,

If organized religion is controlling mankind, then they're doing a pretty bad job of it. The world is in chaos.

AH, but freedom is slavery though isn't it?
War is Peace, Right?

Religion was created by man, Despite that, our Spiritual selves still seek our own truth. A belief in God, or Goddess survives DESPITE Religion

Or maybe we have been indoctrinated for so many centuries into this religious train of thought, that to shake it off, well, is near impossible. Organized, and unorganized religion is a conventional construct of man, wether or not they have been used as a tool of exploitation. Religion in my eyes, is an evolutionary phase in our society, yet to be passed.

Religion is what keeps the poor content. Christianity exploited this very well, teaching the poor to be content with thier living standards, and allowing them to feel a sense of inner-slavery, all the while not condeming slavery. It was Paul who had told a slave to be obedient to his master, was it not ?

Deep

Birkhoff,


If you are implying that I see things backwards-sorry. I see things for what they are.


I do not believe in Satan, nor do I worship him.

I do not think that man needs a personal Satan. He (Mankind) is perfectlly capable of great Evil all on his own.

Originally posted by ZeroDeep


Or maybe we have been indoctrinated for so many centuries into this religious train of thought, that to shake it off, well, is near impossible. Organized, and unorganized religion is a conventional construct of man, wether or not they have been used as a tool of exploitation. Religion in my eyes, is an evolutionary phase in our society, yet to be passed.

Religion is what keeps the poor content. Christianity exploited this very well, teaching the poor to be content with thier living standards, and allowing them to feel a sense of inner-slavery, all the while not condeming slavery. It was Paul who had told a slave to be obedient to his master, was it not ?

Deep

Religion will alway be a part of man - mankind must worship SOMETHING it's impossible to worship nothing.

In regards to the slavery thing - yes Paul preached that servants must obey their masters... ...as unto the Lord.

He is referring to a servants duties to obey His master regardless how the master treats the servant - GOD will deal harshley with the unjust master, it is the servants righteous duty to obey God and allow the Holy Spirit to speak to the him and instruct him on how to behave.

No honest and believing Christian supports slavery of any kind -

<>< B

The type of religion I'm thinking of is just a belief in spirits, the after-life, and most importantly natural law. I don't see how that would induce self-slavery. I don't see an afterlife as doing good you go here and doing bad you go there. I just take upon myself to make the world better, if thats wrong, I don't want to be right. If anything this view would help society. I believe in the power of myself because of my religion. Religion and science can have a place together in advancing society. The placebo affect is proven and coupled with new drugs, people can overcome the harshness of nature. I got more examples, but this could end up being an essay if I organized everything right.
I'm not sure what the atheist takes as morals, but I guess it would come from societal values. Society condemns a lot of things that you may want to do. My religion tells me I can do certain things (like smoke marijuana) without fear of what society may do to me because I know its within the confines of natural law. Atheists (I'm guessing) put their security in society/civilization, I do as well so that I may further this race in future generations. Religion plays a part for me as well though because I realize that natural law will always be above the petty laws that we are forced to follow.
But I choose to work with the system so that I may be able to make life better for people and I use religion (I consider synonymous with natural law) as a security to tell me that certain beliefs/actions I may want to do are OK, even though society says they are bad.
I have freed myself from these social constructs to maximize my possibilities in life from religion. I have put less importance on myself and more on the race of humanity because of religion.
My religion has secured me a paradise in the afterlife even if what I do is against some things in the bible (some of the ten commandments for example). And if there is no paradise to look forward to, if this is the only life I will ever lead, then what I have learned from my religious natural law still stands.
If I will not be forever and this is my only life, then through religion (and society too) I will have been able to contribute to something that will last forever, the human race. As well, I was still able to free myself from society's restrictions.
I believe no matter what you believe in the golden rule still stands, Do unto others as that which you wish done unto you.

So you see, religion has freed me...

Religion was created to give people "good sounding" answers to the unexplainable. Overtime, it was used to control people. The Dark Ages are a fine example. 95% of the population was illiterate and an individual person couldn't own a bible; all because of the church.
All religion is some form of control. They tell you what you can Or shouldn't do. Today, it's used to get money out of people or prestige. That is religion. However, I don't believe they created the idea of god for that. Its in all of us to want the unexplained to be explained somehow. Simply believing in god doesnt enforce rules on you. Only religion does that

Religion will alway be a part of man - mankind must worship SOMETHING it's impossible to worship nothing.

In regards to the slavery thing - yes Paul preached that servants must obey their masters... ...as unto the Lord.

He is referring to a servants duties to obey His master regardless how the master treats the servant - GOD will deal harshley with the unjust master, it is the servants righteous duty to obey God and allow the Holy Spirit to speak to the him and instruct him on how to behave.

No honest and believing Christian supports slavery of any kind -

Makind needs something to worship? How about the worshiping the duality of mind and body alone, and not some figment of one oligarchies imaginations thousands of years ago ? We have been conditioned to believe such heretic speak of worship, we are not children anymore, its time for man/woman kind to hit puberty and realize our mistakes.

Paul an honest and believing Christian never condoned slavery, in fact, he simply told the slave to be content in his/her life. I do not see scripture condeming slavery aswell ?

So we see two types of slavery, an objective and a subjective.

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

Deep