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Israeli Commando: 'We Had No Choice': (I beleive this guy more than anyone else)

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posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 07:53 PM
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Originally posted by Skellon

Originally posted by ugie1028
reply to post by Miracle Man
 


same thing. If your going to change it at all, keep it accurate... don't use keywords to sell you story.

the article is hogwash now because the way they structured. anyone with a half a brain can see the propaganda stemming from that.



If that soldier is guilty of using the keywords MILITANT or TERRORIST I would have to question you regarding all the arab sourced press that cry MURDER! MASSACRE! EVIL! WAR CRIMES at anything the Israelis do.

Strangely these are the keywords I hear the most from people on this forum to describe Israel and its actions long before they establish any facts.

The fundementalist muslim/arab propaganda is so effective most of the opposition on here have no idea they are in so deep.

[edit on 4-6-2010 by Skellon]


Excuse me...did I actually hear that correctly??? Maybe my eyes aren't what they used to be, and SOMEHOW, I misread your statement.


The Fundamentalist, Muslim, Arab PROPAGANDA???


Are you for real??? Why don't you look at all the major media outlets and see who owns them. Muslims don't own SH@T. Therefore, they have a hard time pushing out PROPAGANDA or information that reaches anyone but the people in their own backyards.

Here's the meat and potatoes. Israel was caught red-handed being the group of imperialistic terrorists that they are, and have been for decades. Maybe you forgot this...There were people from the UK and from Europe on that ship who weren't...MUSLIM. Should I repeat that??? And these "Europeans," who have often BACKED Israel, were witnesses to the the Israeli aggression that many other nations have spoken of and repetitively complained about...such as IRAN. And ironically, the ONLY people who died in this Israeli attack WERE MUSLIM. Coincidence??? Gee, I don't know. I guess that the Israelis were counting on ONLY Muslims being on board, which is the reason it was such a big surprise when WHITE people saw the atrocity and complained. OOPS. Big mistake.

Another big mistake that Israel wasn't counting on was this...There were reporters of Western background and IMPARTIAL witnesses that saw EXACTLY what the Israelis did in addition to the Europeans who voiced their complaints. When white people start to complain, the world listens. And, it wasn't until WHITE people complained that Israeli aggression made international headlines. We won't believe the brown people who wear Burkas that have been complaining all along, but, we'll believe the plight of angry Europeans who had the discomfort of sharing the same ship as it was mindlessly attacked by a bunch of Israeli savages.

So, how does white, European people complaining to the media equate to MUSLIM PROPAGANDA??? That's a question that begs for an intelligent response. I'm already aware that I won't be receiving one, so, it might as well be rhetorical. And by the way, normally, the media ALWAYS sides with Israel because of the U.S. partnership that has been occurring between these two countries for ages. You want to know why they usually ALWAYS side with Israel??? Because Israel, along with American Corporations, owns 98% of mainstream media. Therefore, they can shape any story any way that they choose, and most of the world doesn't even question it because the ability for the masses to critically think have been limited by WESTERN PROPAGANDA.

So, are you going to tell me that the Muslims somehow purchased media time on Jewish AND American OWNED television to enforce their right to show their PROPAGANDA??? How effective do you think that would be??? Are you forgetting that America has spent billions in selling us TWO WARS that has made a target of anyone wearing a Burka, or who speaks the tiniest amount of Arabic??? In other words, Muslim Propaganda on American Airwaves pretty much sounds like a conflict of interests to me. It doesn't sell, therefore, it isn't featured. In light of this information, your point made absolutely NO SENSE WHATSOEVER. Maybe you should look up the word PROPAGANDA again and then apply it to those who actually write history.

The only reason why the Muslim side of the story was even told was because there were so many witnesses to the ACTUAL event, that Israel couldn't effectively LIE their way out of their grandiose error. And now stupid threads like this are popping up in support of the same Jackasses who helped destroy our economy, forced us into two additional wars, and screwed the American taxpayer out of their homes (mortgages) and the ability to effectively provide for their families. Keep defending Israel while they crap all over you, but, you better wake up and realize who your REAL enemy is...and it definitely isn't some made up enemy wearing a Turban.

Your politicians and their love of war and greed IS THE ENEMY. It aint the jews, gentiles, christians, muslims, democrats, republicans, blacks, whites, hispanics, asians, or any other religion or creed. Its the guys who wear the three piece suits that send our children to war to secure their oil and their interests. WAKE THE (SNIP) UP!

My God people are thick...

Much love to all...

[edit on 5-6-2010 by EvolvedMinistry]




posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 08:00 PM
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Originally posted by brainwrek
Wow, that article contains all kinds of emotional buzz words....mercenaries, devastating, terrorists, and murderous rage.

In an article that short, the word mercenaries was used 9 times.

Who actually wrote that, a psyops unit, or the assaulter?>


Like every other crime Israel commits, they portray themselves as the victim and offer no evidence to back up their claims.

Lets see some proof people on that boat were actually "mercenaries".



My opinion on who is at fault is indifferent here, but that article does sound fake. The eyes with "murderous rage" was a bit much. Sounds like really dumbed down propoganda.

[edit on 4-6-2010 by TexasTea]



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 08:03 PM
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Originally posted by mack37

From the first rocket launches from Gaza in 2001 to May 2009, rocket attacks have killed 15 civilians in Israel, according to Israel’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs
Link

israel would be forced to "defend" it's people from this threat.


B'Tselem said detailed research with careful cross-checking showed 1,387 Palestinians died, over half of them civilians and 252 of them children.
BBC

Look's a bit one sided no?


Yes, it does. But, I am referring to your post with your selective editing. Lets revisit the link you provided, and that you quoted your information from, shall we?

This would be the continuing text from where you left off:


Israel installed an early warning siren system named “Color Red” (“Tzeva Adom”) that gives civilians roughly 10 to 45 seconds to find cover from the rockets, depending on the distance from the launch site in Gaza, by broadcasting a warning siren in southern Israeli communities when the system detects a rocket launch. The early-warning system, as well as the prepared shelters and reinforced schools that Israel has introduced in areas near Gaza, have undoubtedly limited the number of civilian casualties.

The Magen David Adom (MDA), the Israeli equivalent of the Red Cross, reported that between December 27, 2008 and January 19, 2009, its personnel treated a total of 770 civilians harmed by rocket attacks, including three fatalities, four severely wounded, 11 moderately wounded and 167 lightly wounded, and another 584 persons suffering from shock and “anxiety syndrome.”[25] An MDA spokesman said that another 10 people had been physically injured from January 19 to March 19.[26]



The problem for most people was not being hit, but the fear, uncertainty and stress. More than 800,000 Israelis were under threat because for the first time the missiles [sic] had a range of up to 35 kilometers. You had to plan your daily life by considering how long it would take you to get to a bomb shelter from every point on your route.[45]


So Israel has had to remove people from the areas close to Hamas' shortest range missiles to just outside the area of the longest range missiles. Some missiles were able to go further, though they did not have a large supply of them, or Hamas were willing to move closer into range of fire from Israel to fire them.

They made bomb shelters.

So, let me get this right. You are basically saying, without so many words, that was Hamas does is okey dokey because not too many Israeli's have died? Is my gleaning this from your post correct?

And because Israel has better weaponry, this is bad, why?

And this is why Iran is sending SCUDS to Hamas, to get better range and better death tolls. And this is ok, why?



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 08:03 PM
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Sorry, it was in international waters and that is a fact. Israel was in the wrong and those on board had every right to defend themselves and the ship.

This is a very plain and simple situation. They had the choice to not go near the vessel and they chose to do just that. The law is not on their side and neither is the God whose name and image they use for carte blanche.



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 08:09 PM
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reply to post by guavas
 


I think both of your suggestions are valid friend.

I would personally believe the IDF side to the story purely because they are known in military circles to have one of the best trained, best disciplined, best equipped military forces in the world.

They have codes of ethics.

They are far from murderers as so many choose to believe without evidence to back their claims.

This is my opinion.

I respect opinions that counter this aslong as they are not groundless and fabricated.

I will be the first to admit when I am wrong, and I will with dignity.

Most if not all major military forces have incidents of 'collateral damage' in times of war, most if not all have controversial incidents regarding a soldier or a few soldiers involved in murder/rape/torture.

You can not label a whole military force as murderers/rapists/sadists on the actions of one or a few incidents.

Some crap gets through the filter now and again.

Most if not all countries have individuals who are considered criminals, or 'quiet' people that flip out and kill innocents in cold blood.

It is a sad fact of life.

The difference here is that Israels enemies do not recognise International Law ofr their own actions and guess what? The world accepts that.

Israel, however is under constant scrutiny regarding International Law as it is constantly in conflict against an enemy that is known to turn every Israeli incursion into a humanitarian atrocity as they know damn well that it will hurt Israel in world opinion and gain them some sympathy and political power.

Israel is in constant conflict because if it did not respond in a strong manner to provocation, it would invite further aggression and even invasion.

It projects strength as a deterant, Hamas and Hezbullah exploit this predictable reaction and use International Law as a weapon against it each time.

Does Hamas give a damn about its fellow Palestinians? No

Do the Palestinian youth who are the source of all the sympathy, horror and outrage care about Westerners? They do whilst you film them turn a military action into a war crime, otherwise they would happily skip this life for the promise of paradise whilst suicide bombing innocents.

They are anti-west at a young age.

Wonder why Israel always seem to reportedly kill innocent children?

Check the ages of most of what they consider 'children' in arab bias press;

www.rememberthesechildren.org...

By their chosen interpretation of the age considered to be children, a 17 year 11 month old 'young man' firing a gun at IDF and getting killed can later be reported as an unarmed child.(you dont think they would actually leave his AK on his chest in the ambulance do you?)

You can join the British Army at age 16 in the United Kingdom.

After this, check the ellaborate staging of Israels indiscriminate killing in this video below;



Don't accept my word, look up both sides of the argument.

I have found mostly evidence that has led me to the position I take now.

If you find more evidence than I, contradicting my opinion, I will gracefully accept that I have been wrong.

I find loss of life regrettable regardless of the circumstance.


Peace.

[edit on 4-6-2010 by Skellon]



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 08:22 PM
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reply to post by anon72
 


This is my reply to that Israeli soldier


Thank you and good bye.



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 08:22 PM
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Curious that they took guns from the Israeli's opened fire and not 1 Israeli solider died, they would have gone for head shots to kill, if they were so murderous.

I saw the weapons removed from the ship so it is obvious the people were not pacifists.

But this is spin, both sides are spinning this.



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 08:24 PM
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reply to post by YJLTG
 


What? No facts?

No educated response for the side of the argument you have arrived at, derived from objectivity?

Shocking...





[edit on 4-6-2010 by Skellon]



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 08:29 PM
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Good point above, with the spin-game and all.

I don't see how sending (sayeret) special forces into and "aid-ship" counts as regular procedure. The Israelis should've just sent coast patrol to board and investigate. How would you react if a heavily armed 20-man squad fast-roped from a chopper into your boat? On Israel's part; DISPROPORTIONATE use of force. On the other hand, maybe if the "aid workers" cooperated and complied then none of the violence would have occured.

In any case, if Israel wants to curb smuggling, illegal material proliferation or whatnot, it should review it's enforcement policies, deploying a special forces team to an "aid boat" is PURE FAIL in the eyes of the international community.

Still, the facts remain veiled.



[edit on 4-6-2010 by btyoung21]



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 08:31 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


You're quoting laws as if Israel follows them, and doesn't simply pick, ignore, or outright break them at will.

It's like a criminal scolding me about jaywalking.

First of all, Hammas is not a State and with the case between them and Israel the Geneva Convention would more aptly apply. "San Remo" would be applicable in situations of war where the laws between two States would be in effect.

The blockade is in violation of United Nations Security Council Resolution 1860:


The Resolution called for "an immediate ceasefire in Gaza leading to a full Israeli withdrawal, unimpeded provision through Gaza of food, fuel and medical treatment, and intensified international arrangements to prevent arms and ammunition smuggling." Wiki


It is in violation of articles of the Geneva Convention:


4th Geneva Convention Part III : Status and treatment of protected persons Section I: Provisions common to the territories of the parties to the conflict and to occupied territories

Article 33

No protected person may be punished for an offence he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited. Pillage is prohibited. Reprisals against protected persons and their property are prohibited. wiki


Despite Israels absolute denial of any level of humanitarian crisis (which is astounding) collective punishment is the only way to describe what is happening in Gaza.

The UN has already criticized the blockade, it is against articles of the Geneva convention and Israel is not in the right to board those ships because it is bending the law to suit itself.

It's funny.

Israel wants to quote international laws, just not follow it.
If the blockade was unlawful, then enforcing it was unlawful.

- Lee



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 08:34 PM
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reply to post by Libertygal
 


This whole affair stemming from last weekend has left me with an extremely heavy heart. I first learned about this tragedy this past Sunday when I came to the boards here. 3 of the 4 top threads on the main board were about the Israeli incident.

As I perused the threads, I was shocked, saddened and dismayed at the number of members I admire and respect, dishing out pure hatred and overtly anti-semitic views.

Now I know these view exist on this site, but the sheer magnitude at which this was displayed, is beyond the pale in my opinion. It was if a gang mentality took over, almost like a hypnotic suggestion for everyone to condemn Israel was given. And I swear that there are those here that, if asked to fight alongside Hamas because of this, surely would.

As the week has gone on, I have witnessed in these posts such violent hostility, such pure, unabashed hatred for another group of people that I question whether or not this site is a place where I should feel comfortable airing my views.

And as much as people on here preach tolerance and acceptance of their fellow man, it boggles my mind how these same people can treat another group of people with such heartless disdain.

I'd like to think that we're growing as a species, but from what I've read here these past few days, we've got a long, long way to go.

Sad...very sad.



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 08:38 PM
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Originally posted by Skellon
reply to post by YJLTG
 

What? No facts? No educated response for the side of the argument you have arrived at, derived from objectivity?Shocking...[edit on 4-6-2010 by Skellon]


Objectivity is a important word....when the paid soldier is not being objective I don't wanna waste more time on it than required. I hope the shock was strong enough to wake you up frm you'r slumber!



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 08:43 PM
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Originally posted by btyoung21
Good point above, with the spin-game and all.

I don't see how sending Shayetet/Sayeret into and "aid-ship" counts as regular procedure. The Israelis should've just sent coast patrol to board and investigate. How would you react if a heavily armed 20 man squad fast-roped from a chopper into your boat? On Israel's part; DISPROPORTIONATE use of force. On the other hand, maybe if the "aid workers" cooperated and complied then none of the violence would have occured.

In any case, if Israel wants to curb smuggling, illegal material proliferation or whatnot, it should review it's enforcement policies, sending an SF team to an "aid boat" us PURE FAIL in the eyes of the international community.



I respect your opinion.

I agree that it was a disproportionate use of force unless Israel had reason to suspect that there was a minority of suspicious passengers on the vessel.

IFF, the owner of the Mavi Marmara have reported allegations of terrorist funding in the past, with a Turkish authority investigating them back in 2007.



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 08:43 PM
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Originally posted by anon72
reply to post by brainwrek
 


WHAT? No evidence to back up their claim(s). Please go to this thread-watch the videos-put this article into the mix and you tell me no evidence.

Please: www.abovetopsecret.com...


OMG!!!I see what U mean now! They WERE terrorists & Merceneries! I mean...one of those guys had a FREAKIN' SLINGSHOT!!! DAMN! Those things can HURT Too!!! We used to hit each other in the ass with stones from one of those things, when we were kids! I had a mark that lasted a WHOLE week one time!!!! Yeah, I mean its just obvious now that their REAL intention was to attack the Israelis...I mean, with weapons like sticks, rods & such...its not like those are the types of things ya might just find lying around on any boat, and then pick them up to try to keep from being boarded while U R technically in International Waters, and perfectly legal...NO, Obviously these guys were professional Mercs and Terrorists...its a good thing the Israelis killed as many of em as they did...they might have been planning to ram their ships into an Israeli skyscrapper or something.....Just think...9/11 all over again!!! God Bless You Israel!!!!!



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 08:44 PM
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Well aint we all edumicated,
We can all state facts about this situation and prove beyond the shadow of doubt who is right and who is left.
I believe his propaganda and you believe hers.
We both lose, don't we have more important fish to fry?
We will see what happens with the Irish vessel at least.
Now for a piece of my propaganda, Does anyone know why the Israelis are hated by every country in their region?



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 08:46 PM
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you have to be naive to think that there is any other way to get food and water to the prisoners of war being held under an illegal occupation against all moral and international law in gaza and the west bank. if there was, they wouldn't be digging tunnels under artillery and missile fire to get milk and water to feed their kids. everyone in america and the world is freedom this and freedom that, but when the palestinians fight for freedom they are called terrorists. you would be doing the same if new york city was fenced in by the russians, all power, food, and water cut off and the russians were supplied with advanced weaponry by the israelis. i can understand the jews sticking up for each other, even if it means blowing away a babies brain because thats the way they are. it's only a matter of time before they're all blown away and it won't be because of anti-semitism. it would be because many nations gave up their best, blood was spilled in every ocean and in every continent and instead of showing gratitude and humility that they where given a nation, they show arrogance and entitlement. they instigate and provoke their neighbours at every turn and humilate and murder a people that can't even defend themselves. it has become the must hated nation on earth and it's barely been around 60 years. that should tell you something. they love being hated, it makes them feel special and they try to invoke that feeling in everyone.



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 08:48 PM
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reply to post by lpowell0627
 


To answer your third question: because Israel will not allow what the aid workers were trying to take to Gaza; such dangerous things as cement and educational supplies.



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 08:50 PM
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Originally posted by bhornbuckle75

Originally posted by anon72
reply to post by brainwrek
 


WHAT? No evidence to back up their claim(s). Please go to this thread-watch the videos-put this article into the mix and you tell me no evidence.

Please: www.abovetopsecret.com...


OMG!!!I see what U mean now! They WERE terrorists & Merceneries! I mean...one of those guys had a FREAKIN' SLINGSHOT!!! DAMN! Those things can HURT Too!!! We used to hit each other in the ass with stones from one of those things, when we were kids! I had a mark that lasted a WHOLE week one time!!!! Yeah, I mean its just obvious now that their REAL intention was to attack the Israelis...I mean, with weapons like sticks, rods & such...its not like those are the types of things ya might just find lying around on any boat, and then pick them up to try to keep from being boarded while U R technically in International Waters, and perfectly legal...NO, Obviously these guys were professional Mercs and Terrorists...its a good thing the Israelis killed as many of em as they did...they might have been planning to ram their ships into an Israeli skyscrapper or something.....Just think...9/11 all over again!!! God Bless You Israel!!!!!


Please enjoy this sling shot toy video;

Skip to 01:03 if you can't be bothered to watch the entire video.



I guess you wouldn't stand infront of this?





[edit on 4-6-2010 by Skellon]



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 08:53 PM
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reply to post by bhornbuckle75
 





OMG!!!I see what U mean now! They WERE terrorists & Merceneries! I mean...one of those guys had a FREAKIN' SLINGSHOT!!! DAMN!


They use them on purpose it sends a David vs Goliath meme, it is all theatrics,

Obviously they use modern weapons when it suits them, they shoot off rockets into Israel.




[edit on 083030p://bFriday2010 by Stormdancer777]

[edit on 083030p://bFriday2010 by Stormdancer777]



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 08:55 PM
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Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by bhornbuckle75
 





OMG!!!I see what U mean now! They WERE terrorists & Merceneries! I mean...one of those guys had a FREAKIN' SLINGSHOT!!! DAMN!


They use them on purpose it sends a David vs Goliath meme, it is all theatrics,

Obviously they have weapons they shoot off rockets into Israel.




[edit on 083030p://bFriday2010 by Stormdancer777]


Pardon me? The people on the boats were not Hamas. I'm not sure what mental gymnastics lead you to the conclusion that anyone who supports the Palestinians is equivalent to someone firing rockets at a civilian but I assure you the conclusion is quite mistaken.



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