Israeli Commando: 'We Had No Choice': (I beleive this guy more than anyone else)

This blockade is just about the only defense that Israel has left to use against those that want to wipe them off the face of the earth. They have been demonized for every effort that they have used to date to defend themselves.

Charles Krauthammer wrote an excellent piece on the issue today and paints a very clear and rational picture of what is going on.

The world is outraged at Israel's blockade of Gaza. Turkey denounces its illegality, inhumanity, barbarity, etc. The usual U.N. suspects, Third World and European, join in. The Obama administration dithers.

But as Leslie Gelb, former president of the Council on Foreign Relations, writes, the blockade is not just perfectly rational, it is perfectly legal. Gaza under Hamas is a self-declared enemy of Israel -- a declaration backed up by more than 4,000 rockets fired at Israeli civilian territory. Yet having pledged itself to unceasing belligerency, Hamas claims victimhood when Israel imposes a blockade to prevent Hamas from arming itself with still more rockets.

In World War II, with full international legality, the United States blockaded Germany and Japan. And during the October 1962 missile crisis, we blockaded ("quarantined") Cuba. Arms-bearing Russian ships headed to Cuba turned back because the Soviets knew that the U.S. Navy would either board them or sink them. Yet Israel is accused of international criminality for doing precisely what John Kennedy did: impose a naval blockade to prevent a hostile state from acquiring lethal weaponry.

Oh, but weren't the Gaza-bound ships on a mission of humanitarian relief? No. Otherwise they would have accepted Israel's offer to bring their supplies to an Israeli port, be inspected for military materiel and have the rest trucked by Israel into Gaza -- as every week 10,000 tons of food, medicine and other humanitarian supplies are sent by Israel to Gaza.

Why was the offer refused? Because, as organizer Greta Berlin admitted, the flotilla was not about humanitarian relief but about breaking the blockade, i.e., ending Israel's inspection regime, which would mean unlimited shipping into Gaza and thus the unlimited arming of Hamas.

srael has already twice intercepted ships laden with Iranian arms destined for Hezbollah and Gaza. What country would allow that?

But even more important, why did Israel even have to resort to blockade? Because, blockade is Israel's fallback as the world systematically de-legitimizes its traditional ways of defending itself -- forward and active defense.

(1) Forward defense: As a small, densely populated country surrounded by hostile states, Israel had, for its first half-century, adopted forward defense -- fighting wars on enemy territory (such as the Sinai and Golan Heights) rather than its own.

Where possible (Sinai, for example) Israel has traded territory for peace. But where peace offers were refused, Israel retained the territory as a protective buffer zone. Thus Israel retained a small strip of southern Lebanon to protect the villages of northern Israel. And it took many losses in Gaza, rather than expose Israeli border towns to Palestinian terror attacks. It is for the same reason America wages a grinding war in Afghanistan: You fight them there, so you don't have to fight them here.

But under overwhelming outside pressure, Israel gave it up. The Israelis were told the occupations were not just illegal but at the root of the anti-Israel insurgencies -- and therefore withdrawal, by removing the cause, would bring peace.

Land for peace. Remember? Well, during the past decade, Israel gave the land -- evacuating South Lebanon in 2000 and Gaza in 2005. What did it get? An intensification of belligerency, heavy militarization of the enemy side, multiple kidnappings, cross-border attacks and, from Gaza, years of unrelenting rocket attack.

(2) Active defense: Israel then had to switch to active defense -- military action to disrupt, dismantle and defeat (to borrow President Obama's description of our campaign against the Taliban and al-Qaeda) the newly armed terrorist mini-states established in southern Lebanon and Gaza after Israel withdrew.

The result? The Lebanon war of 2006 and Gaza operation of 2008-09. They were met with yet another avalanche of opprobrium and calumny by the same international community that had demanded the land-for-peace Israeli withdrawals in the first place. Worse, the U.N. Goldstone report, which essentially criminalized Israel's defensive operation in Gaza while whitewashing the casus belli -- the preceding and unprovoked Hamas rocket war -- effectively de-legitimized any active Israeli defense against its self-declared terror enemies.

(3) Passive defense: Without forward or active defense, Israel is left with but the most passive and benign of all defenses -- a blockade to simply prevent enemy rearmament. Yet, as we speak, this too is headed for international de-legitimation. Even the United States is now moving toward having it abolished.

But, if none of these is permissible, what's left?

Ah, but that's the point. It's the point understood by the blockade-busting flotilla of useful idiots and terror sympathizers, by the Turkish front organization that funded it, by the automatic anti-Israel Third World chorus at the United Nations, and by the supine Europeans who've had quite enough of the Jewish problem.

What's left? Nothing. The whole point of this relentless international campaign is to deprive Israel of any legitimate form of self-defense. Why, just last week, the Obama administration joined the jackals, and reversed four decades of U.S. practice, by signing onto a consensus document that singles out Israel's possession of nuclear weapons -- thus de-legitimizing Israel's very last line of defense: deterrence.

The world is tired of these troublesome Jews, 6 million -- that number again -- hard by the Mediterranean, refusing every invitation to national suicide. For which they are relentlessly demonized, ghettoized and constrained from defending themselves, even as the more committed anti-Zionists -- Iranian in particular -- openly prepare a more final solution.

www.washingtonpost.com...

“These were without a doubt terrorists. I could see the murderous rage in their eyes and that they were coming to kill us.”

Now I know how to spot a terrorist. If only airports could scan people's eyes for that murderous rage we could all fly without fear.

I am a private security contractor that operates on US soil and has to follow federal rules for armament and response. I also have to abide by state law in use of force.

At face value from the report by the Israeli Marines. I would have been justified in neutralizing at least 9 people on that flotilla and thats going by NH state law!

I also heard that the flotilla was organized by a collective that is sympathetic to terror groups and that some of the people aboard were prepared to martyr themselves. All this BS of a peaceful ship carrying food and bandages is just wrong...This was a planned attack to garner support against Israel.

Originally posted by Moonguy
So true!!! no matter how the Israeli spin doctors spin this story THEY WHERE ON INTERNATIONAL WATERS!!! you CANNOT board a ship in international waters uninvited!! its is a decleration of WAR, it is a criminal act, it is piracy, Israel is in deep dodo!!

And they will have to pay for such a crime!!!

HAHAHA A declaration of war??? Against whom? Who owned the ship? you cant declare war against people...Only countries...

Apparently you cant float a boat through a blockade set up by a world power without being boarded and searched...

What would have happened if the flotilla was boarded by a small contingent of Israeli soldiers, the people on the boat were nice and the soldiers searched the cargo? If the boat had food and water on it and no ROCKETS...they may have been allowed to pass

Originally posted by wisdomnotemotion
It happened on international waters. It is bias to take which sides telling the truth.

However, the fact remain that
"if you invade my ship, I will shoot you in defense."
"I won't prepare a cup of coffee or tea to calm you down."

Using that logic would you be surprised if that person then used the same force towards you?

Originally posted by Isis_Is_I
reply to post by ElectricUniverse

 

See, there you go again. PLEASE explain to me, at which point in this situation was it acceptable to MURDER civilians?

The Flotilla was in International waters, Israel had no right to storm this ship, none at all.

Israel is a disgrace, it always has been. And the world is waking up to it.

You obviously missed the excellent post before yours that showed the INTERNATIONAL LAW about boarding ships that attempt to break through blockades.

These people on the flotilla gave up their citizenship when they took hostile action and thus became enemy combatants.

I would say that you need to look at Israel through a different looking glass than youre used to and try and see the other side of the story

Nevermind , the OP is just being Anti-Human. Don't stress it.

We all know how these anti-humans will say and do anything they want for the "cause". The "cause" being total annihilation of any humanity and compassion.

I don't know , this post just screams Anti-Human ...

It might be me.... it's just seems like there's a lot of Anti-Human sentiments floating around ATS now.

Maybe we need a HIDF -Human Internet Defense Force ?

Maybe we just need less hate ?

Or more love...

Whatcha think ?

Israel has decided to lable 60% of the world as enemy combatant terrorists with the definintions they use. All you got to do is say Israel may have been wrong and most Jews and Isralies will put you in the threat catagory.

reply to post by earthdude


Only 60%-a tad low I would guess.

Of course Israel would think that, considering most of the world hates and/or disrespects them.

They have to play hard-ball most of the time-just to survive. But, it is hard for us in the US or another country not faced with such hardships and daily threats to your countrymens very existence.

The only bit of bad news here, is that those aboard the flatilla didn't finish off those Israeli Commandos.

Israelis are the terrorists.

[edit on 4-6-2010 by The_Zomar]

Originally posted by Compulsionist
Nevermind , the OP is just being Anti-Human. Don't stress it.

We all know how these anti-humans will say and do anything they want for the "cause". The "cause" being total annihilation of any humanity and compassion.

I don't know , this post just screams Anti-Human ...

It might be me.... it's just seems like there's a lot of Anti-Human sentiments floating around ATS now.

Maybe we need a HIDF -Human Internet Defense Force ?

Maybe we just need less hate ?

Or more love...

Whatcha think ?

So you want more love for those that strap bombs to themselves and walk into crowded Israeli markets to blow themselves up? Killing women and children? Or love for those that would launch rockets indiscriminately into Isreal to kill whomever they land upon? Or love for those that would just as soon cut off your head for not believing as they do religiously?

Unfortunatly it is never about what may have happened to Israel that would cause her to react in self defense. It is only ever about what she does in response to being attacked. Isreali citizens are blown up by rockets launced by Hamas or Hezbolah, or by suicide bombers and it's, "Well, they get what they deserve." Isreal responds with a blockade (assisted by Egypt by the way,) to try to prevent this from happening again and they (Israel) are the great satan.

So to understand why Israel is doing what she is to protect her citizens is now to be "Anti-Human"?

Clearly I am confused by your "Anti-Human" post so please forgive and correct me if I am wrong.

Originally posted by The_Zomar
The only bit of bad news here, is that those aboard the flatilla didn't finish off those Israeli Commandos.

Israelis are the terrorists.

[edit on 4-6-2010 by The_Zomar]

WOW! Hate much?

proofs?

so, its OK to invade a ship in international waters ?

good to know

reply to post by anon72


They had no right to board the ship period.

If they did that basing their actions on a illegal blockade and in international waters any crew of any ship would have the same reaction and would be in their complete and total right.

Besides opening fire on unarmed CIVILIANS that are defending their space against hijackers that are acting out of the law is simply plain WRONG.

There are a thousands ways to contain a situation without having to use fire power or engaging in that manner and there is nothing that Israel could say that would fix this situation or justify the casualties (or should I say murder?).

Originally posted by thomas_
reply to post by anon72

 

Besides opening fire on unarmed CIVILIANS that are defending their space against hijackers that are acting out of the law is simply plain WRONG.

There are a thousands ways to contain a situation without having to use fire power or engaging in that manner and there is nothing that Israel could say that would fix this situation or justify the casualties (or should I say murder?).

FAIL...They WERE armed...Knives and crowbars are weapons when they arent being used for cutting boxes open and opening crates. Try getting into a fight with a cop and see what he does if you get his tazer off of him and point it at him...That a big bowl of lethal force for you my friend. Same thing with pepperspray...its because he is now defenseless against you taking his gun and using it on him and you have shown that you are prepared to act unreasonably against him.

The Israeli Marines stories all say that the crowd moved in and started beating and stabbing the soldiers as soon as they hit the deck of the boat. Its pretty well known that Israeli Defense Forces are some of the best trained commandos in the world. Do you think that if their original intent was to kill people on that flotilla they would have suffered such casualties in this incident???

I don't buy this story. Terrorist wouldn't be using bats and pipes. Plus they wouldn't be bringing toys. Israel made a another bad mistake. Just like back in the 60's, remember U.S.S. Liberty? If you don't know about U.S.S Liberty, Google it!!

article looks scripted.

Lots of 'Terrorist, mercenary, etc keywords.'

This is what happens when you board boats on international waters.

I don't know what to beleive about this story anymore.

reply to post by ugie1028


Thats how trained soldiers talk when giving a report of what happened during a battle.

He's not going to say "a bunch of them there crazy people started whooping us and I had to make their day with my peace maker."

He probably dumbed it down for the reporters a little. I imagine his debrief was a lot worse then this.

Having read up on this issue more I have come to the conclusion that there is no 'right' side of this issue. I had initially leaned strongly towards the aid flotillas (and I still do, 5 of them were just trying to help), however if the account is to be believed then I would defend the Israelis that boarded the 6th ship. They didn't choose to set up the blockade, they don't set policy, they were told to take over and secure the aid flotillas. They were (according to Israeli commando) attacked upon landing on the ship and defended themselves accordingly. It was a reasonable response. I am quick to point out possible propaganda (pro-Israel 'megaphone' type posts) but really the commandos were justified in defending themselves.

Who is really responsible for this mess? The leaders of Israel and their policies and a few idiots who should of realized that attacking people doing a job wasn't the way to spread a message of peace, and bring food to palestine. I used to not believe this, but evil people of all stripes are violent and the best of good people always try and achieve peace. There was no violence on the first 5 ships, regardless of the legality of the blockade and boarding. Is anyone better off now? No. War is looming closer, and the occupation in gaza continues. The idiots firing rockets (which normally don't do anything) just provide a weak excuse for Israel to expand its control... Agent provocateurs(maybe)? If a war does occur, who will benefit? A few rich "elites", and definitely not the common people of any country.

I normally don't like posts that ring of hippie ramblings but if the common people everywhere realized they have more in common with each other than their own leaders nothing would matter enough to cause wars anymore, and no control tactics would ever work again. A man can dream, right?

The article quoted in the OP is the biggest piece of state-sponsored fiction I've read in quite a while. Psy-Ops 101 - Disinformation Propaganda.

Gotta hand it to the Israeli fiction writers - they are pretty good at this smoke and mirrors thing. Seems many here are falling for it.