Israel faces child-abuse claims

reply to post by Skellon




Read the OP, it states the evidence will be presented to the UN.

You can't in any way misunderstand that.

But for me to say I wouldn't be surprised if Israel was doing this is legitimate because Israel doesn't have a good record in regards to such acts against Palestinians.

"Read the OP, it states the evidence will be presented to the UN."

- LittleSecret
(presented does not mean that the evidence guarantees a 'guilty conviction,' it is what is deemed as evidence by DCI, presented to the UN for scrutiny)


Out of sensitivity, I wish to state that I do not condone the mistreatment of children in any shape or form.

Please find below, an example of how media can be interpreted from either 'willing acceptance' or critical analysis.


Speculative And Critical Analysis Of The Video


00:09 "N was 15 yrs old when Israeli soldiers arrived at his home in a dawn raid last year"

00:56 "In the past year the Palestine chapter of Defence for Children International or DCI has collected a hundred sworn affidavits of palestinian children under the age of eighteen who said they were mistreated by their Israeli interrogators"

01:04 "fourteen of them say they were either sexually abused or threatened with sexual assault including rape if they didn't confess to what their interrogators accused them of"

01:14 "N" was one of these minors, he confessed to throwing stones and was given a 3 month jail sentence"

01:23 "Aljazeera put these allegations"

01:26 "refused to comment or respond without access to further specific details about the cases" (wouldn't you?)

01:33 "something the children's lawyers said would put their underage clients in jeopardy"

01:38 "about 700 Palestinian minors are detained by Israeli forces every year"

01:51 "are not allowed access to their lawyers or families" (but they are allowed access to reporters?)

01:58 "the alleged abuse happens during this period of isolation" (when it can neither be proven or disproven?)

02:01 Rifaat Kassis (Palestinian)

02:10 "most of the time the Israelis, they just dismiss our allegations by saying "no this is not correct, this is not true"

02:18 "so if this is the case, then we challenge them to record these interrogations and let the interrogations happen with a lawyer"

02:29 "there are fears that many more children have suffered similar abuse but have been afraid to come forward because of the social stigma that is attatched"

02:49 "Defence for Children International has submitted these allegations to the special UN rapporteur on torture they admit that it will be a long term battle, but they are hoping that outside pressure will prevent further instances of abuse here and afford children like "N" the basic rights and protection they should be entightled to."






Speculative Observations On The Footage Shown:


It would seem the boys in the footage that look approx 8-12 are shown being led into what exactly? The door to a cell block or administration for brief questioning/processing? We don't know.

A child (plural: children) is a young human; childhood is usually defined as the period between the stages of birth and puberty or adulthood. The legal definition of "child" generally refers to a minor, otherwise known as a person younger than the age of majority.

en.wikipedia.org...

child legal definition
Under the common law, a person who is under 14 years of age.

www.yourdictionary.com...

In England, Wales and Northern Ireland, the age of criminal responsibility is 10 and in Scotland, it is 8 years old. The 2002 report from the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child criticised this low age limit and recommended that the UK Government “considerably raise the minimum age of criminal responsibility”.

www.nspcc.org.uk...



It would seem there are only approx mid to late male teens shown in this prison being led to cells or in cells.

International law
International human rights law

The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, Article 38, (1989) proclaimed: "State parties shall take all feasible measures to ensure that persons who have not attained the age of 15 years do not take a direct part in hostilities." However, minors who are over the age of 15 but still remain under the age of 18 are still voluntarily able to take part in combat as soldiers.

en.wikipedia.org...



Speculative Observations On What Is Stated


In the video Nour Odeh states "he confessed to throwing stones", though if we go to the 'Children behind Israeli bars' blog by Nour Odeh, then we get a different perception;

"Aren’t you going to confess?" the soldiers kept asking him… "To what?" he would reply. "To throwing stones," they would say.

Afraid of ending up in jail, N refused to confess to the alleged offence.

"I kept telling them: I didn't do it. I didn't do anything," he recalled.

blogs.aljazeera.net... (Also notice the image presented is that of a much younger person, but still shares similarity with the description of N's being taken away from his parents.)



Nour Odeh

Previously as chief editor at Ramattan News Agency in Gaza, Nour's responsibilities included editing news footage of daily and breaking news in the Palestinian territories for distribution to many international news organizations including CNN, RAI channels, EBU, LBC, Dubai TV, etc.

Also, Nour was director of communications at the Palestine Media Center in Ramallah and has written a number of op-ed pieces analysing the situation in Palestine which were published in a number of international newspapers.

english.aljazeera.net...


Conclusion; The contexual use of imagery, an awareness of 'legal wording' and the skill of editing can be very powerful, whether you see this video as confirming what you have suspected all along or whether you see it as a typical 'media angle'.


Reference video: www.youtube.com...

Same video from a 'different' perspective: www.youtube.com...


[edit on 7-6-2010 by Skellon]

I await your response to the above post LittleSecret.

Kind regards,

Skellon.

reply to post by Skellon


OK you are making it out to be more than what it seems, I respect your well thought out response, and I get the point of the response also, but in the end the title says it all, and reinforces your conclusion that it is merely a claim:

"Israel faces child-abuse claims"

The problem, the full conclusion can only be attained through full evidence, and full assessment of the situation and understanding of the context.

But to have an opinion, or a belief doesn't change the conclusion:
-Evidence can be suppressed:
-You can have belief in a person for many reasons:
-If person A has never lied before, but he is accused of lying, and evidence suggests he is lying
-You can believe, that person A didn't lie, even when evidence suggests otherwise.
-Do you agree that evidence can be meddled with, that evidence can be suppressed, that evidence can be distorted, that evidence can be twisted, that evidence can vanish in to thin air?
-Even if evidence is overwhelming you have to be willing to believe in it.
-Even if there is no evidence, you have to be willing to believe in it.


So, what I'm trying to say is that based on Israel's past record, I wouldn't be surprised if the claim was true.

Until the report is published, my belief is mine, anyone who is willing to believe my belief, can! Anyone who want to believe otherwise, good for them.

reply to post by LittleSecret


If Israel has child abuse problems, welcome to the world.

This whole world has child abuse problems.

Can anyone tell me an animal, apart from humans, who abuses its young?

Ok, I know tomcats eat kittens . And I think lions kill male cubs - ok, humans and cats.

Any other species?

Originally posted by catwhoknows
reply to post by LittleSecret

 

If Israel has child abuse problems, welcome to the world.

This whole world has child abuse problems.

Can anyone tell me an animal, apart from humans, who abuses its young?

Ok, I know tomcats eat kittens . And I think lions kill male cubs - ok, humans and cats.

Any other species?

Systematic abuse is different.

second line

reply to post by LittleSecret


So, systematic abuse is different?

Tell that to the abused child, and ask them is they know what systematic abuse means.

Abuse is abuse.

And, to the shame of the whole of humanity, it happens worldwide.

Originally posted by catwhoknows
reply to post by LittleSecret

 

So, systematic abuse is different?

Tell that to the abused child, and ask them is they know what systematic abuse means.

Abuse is abuse.

And, to the shame of the whole of humanity, it happens worldwide.

In that sense you are correct.

Second line.

Second issue, how do you solve the problem.

If Israel is doing this systematically wouldn't it make it harder to fix rather than individuals committing such abuses?