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Gaza flotilla attack: Israeli ambassador compares raid to Second World War

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posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 08:17 AM
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reply to post by drwizardphd
 


Very well put sir...

What if this was deliberate?
to create anti semetism...

You know the way the vietnamese
( who never did do the gulf of Tonkin as per FOI docs)
would tie a rag up in a tree so a soldier would look up as he steped into a pit full of s**t covered pungee sticks which were guarenteed to cause an incurable infection that would certainly kill him?

I wonder where the money has been flowing to the last few days or what bills have been secretly passed, etc....
I'll bet something really horrible has been slipped by the peoples.

The Korea torpedo thing turned out to be a hoax for example now the discussion is about what the motives for hoaxing might be.

I wonder what we are missing?




posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 08:33 AM
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Israel is in a desperate situation as noted by their silly propaganda. I am worried that like a cornered animal they may do something to try and change the tide of world public opinion. Maybe another false flag in the US.



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 08:38 AM
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Why yes in fact it is very reminiscent of U-Boat attacks on Merchant Shipping! It’s also very reminiscent of some of the Genocide involved with World War II, after all Israel has been waging a depopulation campaign against the Palestinians for over 70 years now. So the Gaza Embargo, with Gaza itself being an open air prison very similar to the Warsaw Ghetto in Poland has a lot of Nazi World War II similarities. Not the least of which is an armed, uniformed, jackbooted collection of thugs, that forensics has proven executed humanitarian aide workers on their knees with close in bullet shots to the head, from six inches to one foot away.

So yes what Israel has done throughout is very reminiscent to what the Nazis did in World War II.

So as usual Israel is sticking with the dictum that the best lies contain a shred of truth. Sadly the shred of truth they contain speaks volumes for Zionist Israel as being a rogue, militant pariah state.

Now before any of you Zionists counter it’s the only democracy in the Middle East, make sure you actually have an official vote with numbers on how many Israelis got to vote on this raid against humanitarian aide workers.

The only thing democratic about Israel and most ‘democracies’ is you get to choose which corrupt political tyrants will rob, murder, and abuse you and the other people of the world in your name.

That’s not democracy.

Democracy as defined by the Greeks, who invented it, is everyone, weighing in and having a say and a vote in every issue.

So unless everyone in Israel got to vote on this raid, spare us the ‘democratic’ values of what a Zionist Police State really isn’t, that does execute humanitarian aide workers on the high seas, in international waters, while enforcing an illegal blockade to impose collective punishment on people it has herded into an open air prison.

Thanks!



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 08:51 AM
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Come on people stop being irrational.
We all know the blind can't see.

Yet again despite irrefutable evidence, these Muppets continue with their lies and propaganda. We can all see the bigger picture and denying it is either ignorant, deluded or both.

We get slammed and slandered for having any sort of negative opinion on Israel yet these lying scumbags get the benefit of the doubt time and time again. How can Washington pander to this person when the country he represents murdered a US citizen and makes insane comparisons with WW2 in an effort at justification?.


No body is fooled by this garbage anymore, complete disregard for human life should not be tolerated by anyone, and quit with the excuses.


[edit on 4-6-2010 by DomhainGràdh]

[edit on 4-6-2010 by DomhainGràdh]



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 09:21 AM
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reply to post by Interfacer
 


The oldest homo sapiens remains where found in Africa. Thus that give every homo sapiens the right to travel to Africa and steal land from African farmers at gun point?
Or could I start researching my families genealogy and claim every piece of land, where any ancestor of me stayed for a fortnight?



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 09:28 AM
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not to slight the greeks

The Iroquis 6 nations have democracy
their system is prior to the european arrival.
GWB acknowledged that they were a major inspiration for the US constitution



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 10:56 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Thank you for your post Proto. How can the world allow this ambassador to spew that trash? Are Americans gullible enough to believe him? When are the American agenda makers going to realize that Israel is a major threat to our global reputation? Even though Obama is a tool, he should grow a set and stand up to these punks and set em straight. Unfortunately, we all know that he is a whelk. Seriously, that ambassador must be from some sort of fantasy world in order for him to say what he did and for him to be convinced of it.



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 11:04 AM
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reply to post by Kailassa
 


WOW... Do you have an oven in your back yard...getting ready to fire it up? Where in the heck do you get your information?
Unarmed???
A thief breaks in your house.. He has a knife and a lead pipe.. You shoot him.. When the cops show up, are you going to tell them you shot an unarmed man? think before you speak PLEASE!!!!
I don't want to personally attack you...but you are making it very difficult!
Blockade = LEGAL
Boarding ship in international waters to enforce blockade = LEGAL
nuff said!



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 11:07 AM
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Originally posted by virgom129
Fine but Israel did not wait for them to reach their suppossed blockade so your point is mute.
They attacked in International waters!!!!!!!
If they had of waited for the boats to reach their declared blockade (and I might add daylight) then you would have a point.


A blockade does not have a delineating line, so the point is not mute. Nor is the fact that the action was outside Israeli territorial waters have any relevance with regards to the rules of blockade.


Orignally posted by Kailassa
People can say what they want, but, as Israel has neither formally occupied Gaza nor declared war on Gaza their blockade was against international law.
Thus their actions in forcefully boarding vessels belonging to other countries in the middle of the night were pure piracy, and the aid volunteers had every right to defend themselves.


You do not need to be at war to impose a blockade and therefore the actions were not against international law.


Originally posted by stumason
It's my understanding that if one has someone under siege/blockade, you are still required by international Law to ensure that food and other humanitarian supplies get through. There are Serbs in the Hague being tried for similiar crimes in Bosnia!


That may be so, but Israel would argue that they do allow food in. Clearly the UN disagree and I would rather believe the UN (the World Health Organization, the EU etc) over Israel any day. However, the amount of humanitarian relief the flotilla carried was small compared to what is let through. The flotilla was a political act.


Originally posted by stumason
Also, the blockade can only extend to territorial waters, on the High seas this is known as piracy because neither Israel and the quasi-state of Palestine are technically in a state of War.


See note above. You do not need to be at war to impose a blockade and a blockade is not confined to territorial waters.


Originally posted by stumason
Also, it is worth noting that all the rockets Hamas fire are ineffective and home made, not imported. Given the extremely limited amount of damage done by these rockets and the amount of damage done by israel in "retaliation", one can clearly see a massive disproportionate response on their part.


Of course Israel would disagree and frequently accuse Syria and Iran of providing arms to Hamas which are then used against Israel. Clearly Hamas gets their kit from somewhere.

I am not trying to excuse Israeli actions against the flotilla, nor their wider contempt of the locals, but Israel feels they are justified and it does take two to tango. The Israeli blockade is (on the basis of what was said on the BBC, as explained in my earlier post) not illegal per se. Whether it is appropriate is a different matter.

If there is to be any progress towards peace then it is incumbent on Israel to start to put in place confidence building measures and a blockade which alienates and punishes the people of Gaza does nothing to help. I often wonder whether Israel actually wants peace because everything they do seems designed to push the prospect further away, but in the complex spaghetti of Middle East politics I also doubt Hamas wants peace to break out – after all Article 7 of the Hamas Charter calls Jews to be killed! Israel may not be nice, but nor are Hamas!

The tragedy here is that the people of Gaza are victims of a battle between Israel and Hamas. Israel needs to stop punishing people for being in the proximity of their enemies.

Regards



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 11:11 AM
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reply to post by harryhaller
 


Please if you are going to call this illegal please have some facts..
Just because little HarryHaller THINKS its illegal does not make it so!!!!!

According to the San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea, 12 June 1994:


SECTION V : NEUTRAL MERCHANT VESSELS AND CIVIL AIRCRAFT

Neutral merchant vessels

67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:

(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;
(b) engage in belligerent acts on behalf of the enemy;

(c) act as auxiliaries to the enemy s armed forces;

(d) are incorporated into or assist the enemy s intelligence system;

(e) sail under convoy of enemy warships or military aircraft; or

(f) otherwise make an effective contribution to the enemy s military action, e.g., by carrying military materials, and it is not feasible for the attacking forces to first place passengers and crew in a place of safety. Unless circumstances do not permit, they are to be given a warning, so that they can re-route, off-load, or take other precautions.


For those that think this was piracy:


the definition of piracy under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, section 101, is clear that piracy can only occur where there are “illegal acts of violence or detention” that are “committed for private ends.” Israeli actions were legal under the law of armed conflict (as evidenced by the San Remo Manual) and in any event, were not committed for private ends. Anyone using the term piracy to describe the Israeli action is clearly not aware of international law on the subject.


Some more raw facts on the matter. Blame the captain of any ship that chooses to violate a blockade for any repercussions that follow.


* A maritime blockade is in effect off the coast of Gaza. Such blockade has been imposed, as Israel is currently in a state of armed conflict with the Hamas regime that controls Gaza, which has repeatedly bombed civilian targets in Israel with weapons that have been smuggled into Gaza via the sea.

* Maritime blockades are a legitimate and recognized measure under international law that may be implemented as part of an armed conflict at sea.

* A blockade may be imposed at sea, including in international waters, so long as it does not bar access to the ports and coasts of neutral States.


Please , please if you are going to debate this with facts and not your personal beliefs... Please please supply us the facts or go debate something that you are willing to get facts about!!!!



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 11:11 AM
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reply to post by paraphi
 


Good post. What I think alot of people fail to understand is that the blockade is illegal. Therefore, no one should have to respect it. I know I would'nt. I compare the illegal Gaza blockade to the school bully who makes kids pay to get to the cafeteria. Just because he says its the rules does not make it so. As long as you and everyone else knows that is a crock, then do not pay the bully. Israel thrives on that type of intimidation.



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 11:35 AM
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Originally posted by Nathwa
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Thank you for your post Proto. How can the world allow this ambassador to spew that trash? Are Americans gullible enough to believe him? When are the American agenda makers going to realize that Israel is a major threat to our global reputation? Even though Obama is a tool, he should grow a set and stand up to these punks and set em straight. Unfortunately, we all know that he is a whelk. Seriously, that ambassador must be from some sort of fantasy world in order for him to say what he did and for him to be convinced of it.


Sadly the truth is my friend, that a vast number of people will accept what the Mainstream News Media reports to them without giving it a second thought.

The good news is that more and more Americans are waking up to many of the falsehoods, hypocrisies and dysfunctional thinking, commentary and editorials put forth by the Mainstream News Media.

The bad news is that really doesn’t change how our dysfunctional republic responds to international events.

As I mentioned in my above post, we all labor under the illusion that ours is a democratic society, but the truth is we only get to vote on who our corrupt politicians are going to be, we don’t get to vote on the issues that they then decide for us, often with corruption and malfeasance involved in those decisions they make on our behalves.

Yet we are seeing in more yet all too rare cases like the Aide Flotilla to Gaza, average ordinary every day human beings like me and you, standing up and doing what’s right, even at the risk of life and limb.

Isn’t it ironic that the world has come to such a state and place, where charity is viewed as evil, and oppressive uniformed armed agents and henchmen of states are viewed as good when prohibiting the giving of charity by using deadly force to prevent it?

It would seem Israel’s slogan “Never Forget” in relation to World War II, is alive and quite well in Israel as they are using almost every page from the Nazi playbook, to systematically oppress, and dispossess an entire nation of people of their lands, homes, economic opportunities, health and wealth and dignity.

It would seem they indeed learned the lessons of Nazi Oppression quite well indeed!



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 12:41 PM
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Originally posted by paraphi
A blockade does not have a delineating line, so the point is not mute. Nor is the fact that the action was outside Israeli territorial waters have any relevance with regards to the rules of blockade.

**SNIP**

You do not need to be at war to impose a blockade and therefore the actions were not against international law.


Just one query then, how come NATO et al required a UNSC mandate to be able to deal with Pirates off the Horn of Africa? How come the US needed a USNC mandate to be able to board NK flagged vessels suspected of peddling missile and nuclear tech? They wouldn't dare intercept those ships on the High Seas without one, I remember it well.

What this does is set a dangerous precedent, namely that Warships from one nation are free to board flagged ships of another, on the High Seas, with no jurisdiction. I don't doubt that "legally" one nation can do this to another, but to have legitimacy is another thing entirely.

In not so distant times past, that would have been regarded as an Act of War! Imagine if Soviet Marines boarded a US flagged vessel "suspected" of taking arms to the Afghan Mujahadeen in the 80's?

According to the Encyclopedia Brittanica, a blockade is "an act of war by which a belligerent prevents access to or departure from a defined part of the enemy’s coasts."

Further more, since 1945, the UN determines whether a blockade is legal or not, not a member state. The problem we have is that Israel has it's best chum on the UNSC, so gets de facto legality because it is impossible for the UNSC to act against them.

The whole "legal" thing is really wishy-washy, but morally and ethically a total blockade of such a large civilian population should be viewed as at least undesirable and at worst totally reprehensible.



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by stumason
The whole "legal" thing is really wishy-washy, but morally and ethically a total blockade of such a large civilian population should be viewed as at least undesirable and at worst totally reprehensible.


On this point you will find me in total agreement.

On the question of blockades I am not so sure the UN niceties need to be strictly adhered to - and when has Israel taken notice of the UN anyway? Did the US get UN agreement for their blockade of Cuba?

Regards



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 02:17 PM
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reply to post by Nathwa
 


Ok, reading this raises one question.

Is Israel officially at war with the Palestinian state?

Like the war between the USA and Germany was an official war (which hasn't ended yet).



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 02:55 PM
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reply to post by Regenstorm
 


Technically, no, because Israel does not recognize Palestine as a country, neither does the U.N. Therefore, any war is techically just a conflict.



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 03:25 PM
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reply to post by Nathwa
 


So technically spoken Israel is not at war with Palestine and they attacked ships that sailed under the flag of the sovereign state of Turkey (not all but most of them that is) in international waters?
If that is the same as the war against Germany my dog will be the next president of the USA.



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 03:31 PM
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reply to post by paraphi
 


The US doesn't actually blockade Cuba though, does it? It's just a bunch of laws designed to prevent trade with Cuba.

I don't recall ever seeing any US marines storming onto Ships of other nations bound for Cuba. If you have some, I'd like to see them....



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 03:36 PM
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reply to post by stumason
 


Just to qualify. I was referring to the Cuban Missile Crisis in the early 1960's where the US prevented Soviet ships reaching Cuba. Not the situation today.

Regards



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by paraphi
 


I know..

Even during the Cuban Missile crisis, no actual boarding or anything took place, it was brinkmanship. And even then, Kennedy sought the support of the OAS as it was in international waters and several ships of various S American nations joined in.

It's hard to compare, even remotely, the situation in Israel/Gaza to that of any other, not least the missile crisis or WWII shipping.



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