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Why do people say now that you shouldn't pray for trivial things?

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posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 05:13 PM
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I just finished reading the Genesis on my Kindle. People- even in the Abrahamic family prayed for things like love. They prayed to have babies. Jacob prayed for like either Rachel (was it Rachel or was it someone else) or, was it Ladan, to have babies. Abraham wanted to pray to Sarah to have babies, but, she didn't have any, so he had to have sex with Bilhal. I mean... now people just say that people shouldn't use prayer for their own personal needs, but, just taking a theistic standpoint from it... like you could pretty much pray for anything! Why is it considered such a taboo topic now?

Oh yeah, there was also the time when Jacob asked his servant to look in the town of his father, was it, to look for a wife for Isaac. They did it there too. It's not like this is something that's not done in the bible.

P.S- I'm not a believer, but, I would like a justification as to why Christians think in this way.

[edit on 3-6-2010 by Frankidealist35]




posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 05:20 PM
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reply to post by Frankidealist35
 

I think, for a start, I would distinguish between the "trivial things" in your title and the "personal needs" in the body of your post.

It does not follow that personal needs are trivial. Having a child is something pretty important; especially in those days, when they were not thinking in terms of "life after death", so having descendants was the nearest thing to immortality they could imagine.

But praying for your football team to win- now, that's trivial. See the difference?



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 05:25 PM
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reply to post by DISRAELI
 


I suppose so. It just seems like at times the Abrahamic family prayed so much for descendants that they did it at the cost of their morality. Abraham prayed that his wife would have a baby, and, when she did not, he went to Bilhal. And then Jacob wanted both Rachel and Laden to both have babies... despite him being in an affair. It's like they didn't care how many people they were involved in... like they thought it was fine to have a big sex ring just because they wanted an okay from their God. I think that after the first wife has a baby- than, like that's enough. More than that- is just trivial, and, to me it's just that you're trying to prove how much of a pimp you can be. I don't know. I probably just offended a ton of believers with my post here, but, that's just how I feel. Anything after the first wife is trivial and gamesmanship.

[edit on 3-6-2010 by Frankidealist35]



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 05:40 PM
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reply to post by Frankidealist35
 

On the morality point- all these stories are coming from a time when polygamy was normal, so they would not have been thinking in those terms.
If their fundamental idea about God is that he's the source of life, in many different ways (food, children), then it all makes sense.

Throwing aside the literal meaning, for a moment, and thinking historically-
Different groups come together to form the original Israel-
They've all got different ancestor stories.
How do they combine these stories? By getting their ancestors marrying each other, or fathering each other.
That's another reason why polygamy happens in Genesis.



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 05:48 PM
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reply to post by DISRAELI
 


Um... if you've actually read the stories you would know that these people who they married weren't part of their families. It's not like they did interfamily marrying, so, they wouldn't need to combine their marriages with that way. It's just as simple as what I said. Jacob just met two women he really liked and he groveled over to them and wanted to live with them for the rest of his life. They weren't part of his family really. Esau also had two wives, and, I don't really believe they were part of their families. I think you're confusing interfamily marriage- with, what went on in the Genesis. Correct me if I'm wrong, but, that's my understanding.



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 06:01 PM
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reply to post by Frankidealist35
 

I have read the stories, very frequently.
But I've studied them enough, with the help of commentaries and my own understanding of the way historical events work, to get possible insights into what might have been the historical realities behind the stories.

You're in a slightly paradoxical position, I think. You want to take the stories absolutely literally so that you can criticise what happened on that basis; you've got to take the attitude of a fundamentalist, as a starting-point for criticising the fundamentalists.

You made the assumption in a previous thread that I haven't read the Bible. Trust me- I've read it.



[edit on 3-6-2010 by DISRAELI]



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 06:10 PM
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reply to post by DISRAELI
 


Hahaha. I'm not a fundamentalist. I'm an agnostic. I know that the stories themselves aren't meant to be taken literally. I don't take them literally. I just would disagree with you that they had inter-family marriage. I think while it is a minor detail in the stories- I think that it is a significant detail in order to understand the Genesis.

They had sex with their servants a lot, and, I guess the closest thing you could say to inter-family marriage in the Genesis was when Jacob fetched wives for himself, or, for Isaac- but, they were really just Abraham's brother's place... and married his daughters. I don't think that the daughters themselves were originally a part of the family. They were not originally linked to them... I guess I just disagree with you on that minor detail. I still think that he didn't need to have sex with both of them, and, have sons from all of his wives and create lots of offsprings.

[edit on 3-6-2010 by Frankidealist35]



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 06:22 PM
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reply to post by Frankidealist35
 

I'm not sure you realised what I was getting at.
Let me give an example.

There is a group of tribes who regard Leah as their ancestress.
There is another group of tribes who regard Rachel as their ancestress.
Somewhere in the mix there are people who trace themelves back to Jacob.

What happens when these tribes are getting together?
The way the story develops is that Jacob marries BOTH Leah AND Rachel.
As a result, all these tribes can now regard themselves as having a common origin.

There seem to have been more stories about female ancestors than there were about male ancestors; so anyone bringing the stories together has to assume a degree of polygamy.



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