It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

I will answer any question regarding meditation or enlightenment/nirvana

page: 8
11
<< 5  6  7    9  10  11 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 5 2010 @ 03:44 PM
link   
Following this thread is very... enlightening


I suppose my view of enlightenment currently is that of an ultimate
skeptic. I do not claim to know either way, but doubt is not necessarily bad here
either.

I am asking, is it really an improvement? Why? Over what?

If you haven't yet attained it yourself, what makes you believe it is
what you believe it is?
Is it through the teachings of someone, based on
the fact that other things in there have proved right (ie. one of the main
con principles)?
Is it because you feel it is right? Can you trust yourself? Can you
really be sure it is a result of your "highest", most correct level of
thinking/being, not from a lower one, or from influence, or other
beings?
If you consider yourself partway there, how can you be sure anything
attained so far is truly an improvement? Not that you merely believe so?

In short, I ask for elaboration on the very foundations, particularly
on the why. I appreciate everyone's contributions so far, these questions are not directed just at filosophia.




posted on Jun, 5 2010 @ 03:52 PM
link   
oh yes, i can lay down. that's actually how i try to meditate. but i usually fall asleep before i actually experience anything lol. my spine doesn't change my breathing in any way. but i was just curious. i've read about meditation a few times and its always said that a straight spine is a major part of the act. i kind of lost hope when i realized i could never actually have a straight spine. thank you very much for your answer!



posted on Jun, 5 2010 @ 05:12 PM
link   
reply to post by filosophia
 


If you are not completely enlightened then how can you answer questions on enlightenment?
I did not compare enlightenment to a puppy chasing its tail, I compared its pursuit.
I did not compare enlightenment to a death wish, I compared its pursuit.
Is it not true that, he who knows, knows nothing?
If words can’t describe a thing in itself of what use is a definition of transcendence?
If metaphor and analogy are required then surely we are lost? We think we have it, or an idea of it.
Enlightened sages may be able to take a lot of punishment, who can say?
I may be able to take just as much!
Can enlightenment not just steal upon us?
Does focusing the mind on paradox or even a conjunction of opposites achieve the same result?
Why not just observe yourself, surely, ultimately that is all that is required?
Or shall we endlessly complicate things with methods and systems?
Will you not have to unlearn everything you know? Does this knowledge not stand in the way of what you are seeking.
Perhaps what you are seeking is exactly the opposite of what you think it is!



posted on Jun, 5 2010 @ 06:58 PM
link   

Originally posted by ithilc
Following this thread is very... enlightening


I suppose my view of enlightenment currently is that of an ultimate
skeptic. I do not claim to know either way, but doubt is not necessarily bad here
either.

I am asking, is it really an improvement? Why? Over what?

If you haven't yet attained it yourself, what makes you believe it is
what you believe it is?
Is it through the teachings of someone, based on
the fact that other things in there have proved right (ie. one of the main
con principles)?
Is it because you feel it is right? Can you trust yourself? Can you
really be sure it is a result of your "highest", most correct level of
thinking/being, not from a lower one, or from influence, or other
beings?
If you consider yourself partway there, how can you be sure anything
attained so far is truly an improvement? Not that you merely believe so?

In short, I ask for elaboration on the very foundations, particularly
on the why. I appreciate everyone's contributions so far, these questions are not directed just at filosophia.


Why should one meditate? So they can realize their true nature. Either it is beneficial to reduce your mind to a singularity, or it is not. If it is not possible, then it is not beneficial. If it is not beneficial, there is no harm to try meditation. If there is a benefit, then there is a good reason to meditate. Why not give it a try and then ask yourself if there is any purpose in seeking towards enlightenment.



posted on Jun, 5 2010 @ 07:00 PM
link   
reply to post by midicon
 


If the pursuit of meditation is a futile objective, then I would have stopped trying a long time ago. There is always amble reason to seek wisdom, and to strive for self-realization is worth the journey.



posted on Jun, 5 2010 @ 07:03 PM
link   
reply to post by filosophia
 


What if someones true nature is as a loving parent to their only child?

How can we decide on what someones true nature really is?



posted on Jun, 5 2010 @ 07:05 PM
link   

Originally posted by onequestion
reply to post by filosophia
 


What if someones true nature is as a loving parent to their only child?

How can we decide on what someones true nature really is?


True Nature is the highest Self, which is the true nature of all things, including the true nature of a loving parent to their only child.



posted on Jun, 5 2010 @ 07:12 PM
link   
My question to you Filosophia...

What is the ultimate purpose of enlightenment???

I know its the pursuit of wisdom but in the whole grand scheme of things, why do we need to keep searching for it. What is the end goal?



posted on Jun, 5 2010 @ 07:18 PM
link   
reply to post by filosophia
 


So there is the 'me' that desires.
The 'me' is trying to become the whole, but the 'me' is the very essence of disorder.
I wonder if you see my point, it is the 'me' that wants to transcend and thinks it can.
if this is not grasped, then there is no point of continuing this conversation.
what guru's really are doing is destroying people, they lay out a path which their followers must follow.
Follow me i know truth, and of they go.
I dont think guru's realise what they are doing, if they did they would stop immediatly, or ofcourse they need the attention, desire power and position.
So it is not the benefit of the follower but of the guru.

If there is something like enlightenment at all, one can only reach it on his own being his own authority.
The 'me' in us is the disorder, so not before the 'me' has fallen away can we proceed.
And when it has fallen away, there is no desire, no disorder, but tremendous energy which is gathered instead of consumed.



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 01:23 AM
link   
reply to post by filosophia
 


You never answered a single question! Perhaps I’m not asking the right ones.
Or perhaps they were not what you expected? Expectation can bring us down!
It could also be that you are missing an opportunity here. Have you considered this and why this is?



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 07:43 AM
link   

Originally posted by strangleholder1
My question to you Filosophia...

What is the ultimate purpose of enlightenment???

I know its the pursuit of wisdom but in the whole grand scheme of things, why do we need to keep searching for it. What is the end goal?


The ultimate purpose of enlightenment is to transcend samsara. Samsara is the world of sense cravings and perpetual rebirth. In Buddhism the cycle of reincarnation is perpetual, but nirvana ends this cycle so there is no more rebecoming and thus no more suffering. In a Christian sense it would be likened to "being with Jesus" or being one with the Lord. Yoga means 'Union with the divine,' so enlightenment is enlightening the mind to the true nature of reality, which forever destroys the notion that you are merely a body but rather an immortal soul.



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 07:45 AM
link   

Originally posted by godddd
reply to post by filosophia
 


So there is the 'me' that desires.
The 'me' is trying to become the whole, but the 'me' is the very essence of disorder.
I wonder if you see my point, it is the 'me' that wants to transcend and thinks it can.
if this is not grasped, then there is no point of continuing this conversation.
what guru's really are doing is destroying people, they lay out a path which their followers must follow.
Follow me i know truth, and of they go.
I dont think guru's realise what they are doing, if they did they would stop immediatly, or ofcourse they need the attention, desire power and position.
So it is not the benefit of the follower but of the guru.

If there is something like enlightenment at all, one can only reach it on his own being his own authority.
The 'me' in us is the disorder, so not before the 'me' has fallen away can we proceed.
And when it has fallen away, there is no desire, no disorder, but tremendous energy which is gathered instead of consumed.


a teacher can only point the direction, the student must follow it. Would you expect a mechanic to be able to impart absolute knowledge of motor vehicles into you? Perhaps they do not know ultimate knowledge. So consider this to be simply the beginning of your journey, not the end. All I am trying to do is encourage you to take the first step, after that you are on your own but there is a wealth of guidelines that you can follow. If the path seems too dangerous--and it is dangerous--you should not embark on it.



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 07:47 AM
link   

Originally posted by midicon
reply to post by filosophia
 


You never answered a single question! Perhaps I’m not asking the right ones.
Or perhaps they were not what you expected? Expectation can bring us down!
It could also be that you are missing an opportunity here. Have you considered this and why this is?


I answered your questions, perhaps they are not the answers you want to hear. You keep using the dog chasing its tail metaphor, so I'll elaborate on that. Enlightenment would be likened to the dog gaining the wisdom to stop chasing its tail. Even if the dog enjoyed chasing its tail, it could still be viewed as a futile effort. So the ability for the dog to stop chasing its tail is the same as realizing that the goal of enlightenment is to no longer seek after enlightenment.

Just for the record, that's the third time I answered that specific question.



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 08:52 AM
link   
reply to post by filosophia
 


Thanks for the reply but I know this already my question was why? If I was to tell you that being at one with the creator was nothing more than being consumed as a tasty snack of positivity,you couldn't argue that it wasn't, No one could because no one knows anyone who has made it.

We can have faith and insight telling us thats its a good thing BUT! What if repeating these lives over and over until we get it right is just a way to remove the nasty negativity in our soul so we can be better digested by a higher being? All that God belief, higher light, religion tells us that you must remove logic, stop thinking and just blindly believe what we are told, I think its all just a way to keep us entertaining to whatever puppet master is at the top. Prove me wrong if you can...



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 09:21 AM
link   

Originally posted by strangleholder1
Thanks for the reply but I know this already my question was why? If I was to tell you that being at one with the creator was nothing more than being consumed as a tasty snack of positivity,you couldn't argue that it wasn't, No one could because no one knows anyone who has made it.

We can have faith and insight telling us thats its a good thing BUT! What if repeating these lives over and over until we get it right is just a way to remove the nasty negativity in our soul so we can be better digested by a higher being? All that God belief, higher light, religion tells us that you must remove logic, stop thinking and just blindly believe what we are told, I think its all just a way to keep us entertaining to whatever puppet master is at the top. Prove me wrong if you can...


The why is the easy answer, but, most will not see it as the answer because they are blinded by the beliefs they are attached to.

And let us all at least agree that few have experienced being as one with the universe.. which is the recognised Initial Enlightenment Experience.

Why? Enlightenment for a human being can make that person the highest evolution of human beings, in that they are open to their own much "higher" awareness at will, able to be in connection with all layers of reality around them, and also able to manipulate energy in many ways.

And we do not live lives over and over to remove nasty negativity from our Soul.

The soul is perfect, there is nothing you could ever do to it to taint it in any way.. it is just too huge and powerful for humans to hurt.

Belief-Systems have been lying to us since we first questioned reality. They have caused us to think far too small all of the time. The time for small-thinking is over now.. time to Wake Up and see the Bigger Pictures for yoursaelf, time to Awaken to your natural state of awareness as a Soul and no longer be LED by anyone, Beliefs or Desires.


Originally posted by onequestion
reply to post by Tayesin
 


Enlightenment is harmony,

Where is harmony taking you? Are you being pushed in a certain direction? That direction is probably enlightenment.


Sorry, I disagree. Harmony only with nature because nature just is Iself. Not harmony with the world of man.

Why? Because you can understand that all people are where they are in their understanding and that is okay.. thus you can be harmonious with all people.

But the world of man is in a tepid state of change with so many who desire to hang on to their attachments, their beliefs, their comfort zones and unbalanced ego, so an Enlightened human being will find themselves being opposed at almost every turn.

Of course in Eastern cultures this was never a problem, but try being Enlightened in the Western Culture and see how far you get without opposition.

A Druid Maxim states, "The Truth Against The World."

Understand that and you will have some understanding as to why Enlightenment is not Harmony in our modern world

[edit on 6-6-2010 by Tayesin]

[edit on 6-6-2010 by Tayesin]



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 09:34 AM
link   

Originally posted by strangleholder1
reply to post by filosophia
 


Thanks for the reply but I know this already my question was why? If I was to tell you that being at one with the creator was nothing more than being consumed as a tasty snack of positivity,you couldn't argue that it wasn't, No one could because no one knows anyone who has made it.

We can have faith and insight telling us thats its a good thing BUT! What if repeating these lives over and over until we get it right is just a way to remove the nasty negativity in our soul so we can be better digested by a higher being? All that God belief, higher light, religion tells us that you must remove logic, stop thinking and just blindly believe what we are told, I think its all just a way to keep us entertaining to whatever puppet master is at the top. Prove me wrong if you can...


Otherwise, we are staying in the world to become food for animals. God is not a being that could eat or not eat us, but rather an eternal essence that we can either realize or not. The highest absolute is a state and not a being. It is the creator of all beings, the true nature of all beings. It is possible in this lifetime to realize that essence.



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 09:47 AM
link   
reply to post by filosophia
 


Let me list my unanswered questions!

If you are not completely enlightened then how can you answer questions on enlightenment?
Is it not true that, he who knows, knows nothing?
If words can’t describe a thing in itself of what use is a definition of transcendence?
Enlightened sages may be able to take a lot of punishment, who can say?
Can enlightenment not just steal upon us?
Does focusing the mind on paradox or even a conjunction of opposites, achieve the same results?
Why not just observe your self, surely, ultimately that is all that is required?
Will you not have to unlearn everything you know?
Does this knowledge not stand in the way of what you are seeking?


I did not say pursuing meditation was a futile objective and anyway do we not ‘practice’ it? It is not meditation that is being pursued.
Regards ‘dogs and tails’ I was merely trying to point out you had misunderstood my question. A simple yes or no may have been sufficient! AND you still didn’t answer it! but instead wandered of into different scenario, but that’s fine!


You have offered to answer questions on enlightenment haven’t you?
I have some more but I’m almost afraid to post them! Shall I?



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 11:05 AM
link   
Tayesin,
Belief-Systems have been lying to us since we first questioned reality. They have caused us to think far too small all of the time. The time for small-thinking is over now.. time to Wake Up and see the Bigger Pictures for yoursaelf, time to Awaken to your natural state of awareness as a Soul and no longer be LED by anyone, Beliefs or Desires.

This is a fine example of a contradiction, you are saying don't become led by anyone but then suggest I believe what YOU say. This is why I don't believe any of it.
No one can answer my question without making contradictions. If ultimately my soul is perfect then what? do I have to gain by taking part in the rat race of spirituality while I'm down here on earth....

Filosophia,
Otherwise, we are staying in the world to become food for animals. God is not a being that could eat or not eat us, but rather an eternal essence that we can either realize or not. The highest absolute is a state and not a being. It is the creator of all beings, the true nature of all beings. It is possible in this lifetime to realize that essence.

Perhaps we are staying in the world against our FREE WILL, have you ever considered that we are being manipulated by something beyond our understanding. The way I see it ALL spirituality is nothing more than a crutch, if my higher self is beyond my understanding in its brilliance then why would I de-skill myself here on earth, doesn't that very concept seem a waste of cosmic resource to you? and therefore negative in its conception....

Its impossible not to create negative karma while here on earth, therefore we are always doomed to repeat the experience over and over again. The end goal of achieving the highest state of being is not possible in my opinion.

What do both of you think?



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 11:12 AM
link   
reply to post by filosophia
 


that's what i mean, it is only mechanical, any book can do the same any teacher does.
Its just transfering knowledge, and knowledge is the past, otherwise it could not be known
The non mechanical learning is through ones own perception and ability to see.
To compare it with knowledge transfered about a car is funny but suitable for mechanical learning
.
Everywhere the same form of meditation is taught by guru's, which they also have learned the mechanical way and it doesn't mean anything, it only cost money for many people to get a position and some sanscrit word to meditate on, repeat repeat repeat.
It is continious and endless without grasping the real depth this way.
Don't get me wrong, i'm only trying to convey the trap of this where many find them self caught.
If you are ready the light will shine, and it wont be lit by noone but you as only you can bring about your own transformation like everybody else.
No journey, no danger, no path or direction to go or follow.
Only few have the ability to see, most are caught in there own prison of illusions, of conclusions, of fears and pleasures, and a fixation at the material world.



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 12:20 PM
link   
reply to post by Tayesin
 


Exactly. In the West we debate the existence of enlightenment on the internet, in the East it is an implicit understanding many thousands of years old. The same is true for meditation or karma whose definitions mean something very different in the East.

The perfect being would have to fight strongly for his existence on one level and on another level be disinterested to the world.

I believe this was the mentality of the first fish to walk on land.


[edit on 6-6-2010 by AProphet1233]



new topics

top topics



 
11
<< 5  6  7    9  10  11 >>

log in

join