I will answer any question regarding meditation or enlightenment/nirvana

reply to post by MischeviousElf


Okay, I'll try to answer all your questions in detail, but for now I would like to say that I appreciate you opening the dialogue and that I'll try and answer your questions one by one.

reply to post by MischeviousElf


-Thank you for bringing Meditation and opening the discussion on Buddhism on the boards, this is always good.

No problem

-However as a fellow practitioner with a very limited amount of experience, I certainly would not call myself enlightened, I feel I must point out (lol) a few things about the true nature of Enlightenment and mind, so that others especially those first looking into this, may have a balanced view, and also to correct any discrepencies between anything stated and what the actual Buddha and other Buddhist masters have actually taught.

I appreciate it, so long as you use citations if you are going to be quoting the Buddha. If I quote the Buddha it usually comes from (www.attan.com)

-By the way, what stage or level of enlightenment would you say that you have obtained?

I have been meditating for 7 years, and associate myself with my true nature and not my body, intellectually speaking. I've read many of the ancient teachings and all of the most well known, extensively researching the best. I have meditated to the point of changing my perspective on life a long time ago, as such going against the grain of the world rather than along with it.

-Are you in Nirvana now?

One can not be in nivrana since nirvana is literally the detachment from the aggregates. The transcendental state has no state to be in, but rather it is the state, knowing this idea allows you to expand your mind. I know this well and associate my self with it. I can enter into samadhi for as long as I want, usually it can be twenty minutes at a time or longer.

-What is the differance between Nirvana and Samsara?

Samsara is the cycle of rebecoming, nirvana is the ending of this cycle by cutting off of attachments. Once you are completely detached, that is liberation, the opposite of samsara. Samsara is a noun, nirvana is a verb. Nirvana is however sometimes used as a noun to imply a perfect peace.

-Originally posted by filosophia
I'm doing this because I'm BORED!



This confuses me if you are enlightened, or at a high state. You want to teach and discuss Buddhism because you are Bored?

Because I enjoy it. I'm not bored so long as I am thinking about it. I'm not really bored I just like to joke around sometimes, you can't be serious all the time.

-Not to benefit and help other beings?

Well, trying.

-Is your mind therfore like a monkey at the moment locked in an house, and has to go to a window and look outside, or run around the house unable to be perfetly content to just be?

No, my mind knows its origin, and can bath in it whenever it pleases, and then once this has been done, washed of all impurity, it can enjoy life again, not as a monkey but as a real human being ought to experience life. With reverence and witness.

-The whole point of meditation is to find the center of your consciousness



Mind has a center?

Mind is the center, in that the Mind creates thoughts, so Mind Itself is the immaterial process by which thoughts are created. In Buddhism, the process of empirical consciousness is not a permanent essence, but rather a collective bundle of thoughts. To liberate yourself from this empirical consciousness is to become conscious of the eternal nature of consciousness, which is the basis of the Dharma.

-Is your consciousness seperate from mind, seperate from all, it has a position?

Empirical consciousness is attached to the body, and mentation is connected to soul and body. Mind and Soul can be used synonymously if the Mind is meditating on the Soul, and the Mind no longer attaches to body but becomes one with the Soul.

Taste?

Color?

Smell?

These are sensory perceptions connected to bodily organs, the mind is what allows you to see colors, taste tastes, and smell smells. The "you" is the backdrop to these perceptions. If you turn your perception away from physical aggregates and towards your own mind, then you will start to "see" "hear" "feel" your own soul. But only on a metaphorical sense.

-What is it actually about your mind that is fixed, unchanging, not moving or truley seperate?

The self beyond the mind. That which is beyond my physical actions and my mental processes, all the way to my will itself, that is my true nature. When you feel its disconnect to the body you start to realize it is beyond your body and in the realm of your mind. Your mind begins to expand in the unlimited space that is beyond your body.

After that, meditation is really about breaking free of your physical consciousness and raising upwards in your mind until you reach the point where your mind becomes engulfed in light or "enlightened" and it feels as if you go out of your body into the realm of your mind


-In fact as one recnt Lama/Yogi with over 35 years of being an Monk Teacher who is very well regarded said in a teaching whilst I was there, this is to be avoided, that:

Some people think that when they feel like they are about to fly or float, or their mind goes of into space this is meditation, it is not, it is just another projection fantasy imagination


He was teaching specifically on mindfulness.


But being mindful is also a defect when it comes to absolute nirvana (paranirvana). So by his standards any teaching is therefore mute. Imagination is perceiving images, and the highest image of the mind is the light of enlightenment. Higher than this is the reasoning which discerns the difference between duality and non-duality. To know non-duality is to know the true nature of your soul, which is not a figurative thing. Your knowledge of it goes beyond imagination.

-By turning your mind away from your body and towards your soul



You/we have souls? and they are seperate from the Mind?

Turn your mind away from the world and towards yourself. That is as simple as it can be put. There is technically only One Supreme Soul, but your self is this soul in its highest form.

-Have you read Buddhas teachings on No Atman?

Yes, and it is meant as a practical device. The Buddha first says to his followers that there is no self, so they detach from physical pleasures. Then he teaches them the Eternal Dharma. It couldn't be Eternal if it had no Self. (nirvana sutra www.nirvanasutra.net...)

[edit on 3-6-2010 by filosophia]

I haven't really been trying to meditate in any traditional sense, but I have been kind of learning how to relax my body. What is weird is that I can feel really relaxed at yet at the same time, get a rush of energy. It is hard to explain.

I wasn't really sure what a chakra was, but I am starting to feel energy in places. I seem to feel it it more in the root chakra, I guess. Also and kind of in my kidney area and stomach. Sometimes it goes to into my chest and throat. When I really try to push it upwards, I feel a pulsing in my head. I find it hard to concentrate on that very long.


I only do this when I am trying to go to sleep or if I am in bed, because sometimes I find it isn't pleasant at first. Once I felt as though the energy was filling my sinuses and it felt as though it was too powerful.


I had to let go of the energy because it felt like my head was going to explode. I felt like a blood vessel was twitching or something. I didn't want to give myself an annerysm. I don't even know if that is possible, but whatever I was doing, I must have been doing it wrong at that point.

I don't really know much about meditation, but I do know what I felt! It was so strange and sometimes it isn't pleasant. I guess I have energy I don't know what to do with or where to properly channel it.

I don't really have a mantra and I guess I don't really have a point to meditating, because right now I am just experimenting with feeling the energy in my body. I can sometimes relax to the point where I can feel my heart beating and it seems I can mentally trace the path the blood is taking through my arms and legs.

I guess what I should be doing is trying to channel the energy to some point.

When I am really relaxed at night, I kind of look into the blackness of my mind. When I get into a higher energy state, it seems as though I start to seem the blackness have a bit of swirling to it. When I concentrate on that, I seem to see colors start to swirl around or pulse.

Once I went into a lucid dream where I lost all sense of my body and I was in the darkness swirling along with it, and the colors started and then I saw a brilliant blue light swirling in front of me. I heard and felt some tones starting. As soon as I was really aware of it, and awed by it, I woke up.

I've found out how to go into a lucid dream, but I can never really figure out what to do once I go lucid. I usually look around and just interact with whatever I can see. I seldom quite get lucid enough to think about changing the content of the dream itself.

I know I am dreaming, but the few times I actually get lucid enough to decide to change the dream, question my dream characters, or try to travel to another location, I wake up.

Many in my dreams I am trying to physically get some place by walking, flying, or driving there.

Recently, a few times that I told myself just to stop trying to physically get there in the dream, but just imagine myself already there, it seems to work. But I can not usually get lucid enough to do this very much. I think I am getting better though.

The other night I felt I had finally achieved a really sort of lucidity, a new threshhold for me. I mean, I actually caught myself going into a dream. First I was aware of the darkness around me, in my mind. Then I was less aware of my body and more kind of feeling floaty and spinny. Then I kind of saw the dream forming around me.

Well I've kind of done this before, but not trying to. I've caught myself going into a dream before, but not when I was really purposely trying to do that.


I'd like to have a purpose to my meditation, to heal my body and to think more about love, releasing negitivity. I've been trying to let go of grudges and if I think anything about anyone I try to focus on forgiving that person.
I don't know how people sustain themselves without food or water, or how they regulate their temperature. I think we are capable of much more, if we can tap into it.

reply to post by MischeviousElf





Emptiness is a term that means has no inherent Self to it. Samsara is emptiness since it is not permanent. True compassion is love of the higher Self.



Nihilism arises out of doubt in the ontological Soul. Perpetualism arises out of the failure to properly subjugate the will in the midst of pleasure and pain.


Meditation is turning the mind upon itself. This is the only way.




Without Vision, there is no way to comprehend anything, let alone the teachings of the Buddha.







It is only necessary to gaze at one object for a very long time if that is the eternal, otherwise you are gazing at matter which can not be perceived, or you are gazing at different things which means your mind is not completely still.

reply to post by jessieg


When you feel pain in your head, you have some kind of emotional resistance that prevents your mind from letting go. You can either force your way through it or think rationally as to what the problem is. The more physical the problem, the easier it is to rationalize, but at a certain point, it is simply doubt or fear in the mind. When I first started to meditate, I had such intense feelings that I thought I was going to die, but I didn't, but it proves that meditation can't simply be nothing if you actually feel intense pain at moments. But pain is not the goal, the goal is to feel a kind of out of body experience, but really it is in understanding your true nature. I hesitate to even use the out of body metaphor but it is a decent enough metaphor. You have to turn your mind on itself and start to observe what you are thinking. Realization is the key, and self-realization is the highest goal. Good luck only you can do it for yourself.

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reply to post by MischeviousElf


You have cleared up many of the misconceptions that the originator of this thread seems to have about the nature of enlightenment. Most of the statements reveal that his/her mind has fixated on spiritual concepts. There is nothing worong with this, but to try to pass spiritual knowledge off as true understanding and then offer to give "advice" is to mislead. Although I see that the basic intentions here are good.

Originally posted by deadred
If you were truly as enlightened as you claim to be, you WOULD have the patience you claim you don't have. Sounds like you're a legend in your own mind. Go back to school, buddy, maybe about the 8th grade or so. Maroon

please point out where I said I was enlightened?

Originally posted by Silenceisall
reply to post by MischeviousElf

 

You have cleared up many of the misconceptions that the originator of this thread seems to have about the nature of enlightenment. Most of the statements reveal that his/her mind has fixated on spiritual concepts. There is nothing worong with this, but to try to pass spiritual knowledge off as true understanding and then offer to give "advice" is to mislead. Although I see that the basic intentions here are good.

By your own definition it is impossible to clear up misconceptions since that would imply providing a conception of your own which goes against the nature of enlightenment. To then pass this off as spiritual knowledge is to mislead. Although I see that the basic intentions here are good.

Your philosophy is to not speak about Dharma at all, and when people come around to do so, you say they are misguided because they have conceptions, while you have conceptions as well. So you are acting like a gate keeper that tries to lead innocent minds into thinking that Buddhism is about no-soul, no-thoughts, no-life. Shame on you.


[edit on 3-6-2010 by filosophia]

You want to be a teacher, and that's laudable, but you come on here acting like a guru or something when you don't have the patience of an elevated student. Period

Originally posted by Silenceisall
reply to post by filosophia

 

Yes, and you can "die" before you are dead. This is the point.

Please show me how you can die before you are dead. Well, since you can't, you must be misleading.

As I said, you can metaphorically die by realizing your true nature in relationship to your lower nature (which dies), but this is not what you said.

Originally posted by Silenceisall
reply to post by filosophia

 

The out of body experiences are the fireworks of realization, but are in no way equivallent to true seeing.

[edit on 3-6-2010 by Silenceisall]

If there were nothing to see, there would be no true seeing. True seeing is seeing the light within the mind. If you do not know what I am talking about, you have not yet experienced it.

reply to post by filosophia


I will say one more thing here, because I am obviously just giving your mind more snares and hooks to get tangled up in. When your seeking ends, but true earnestness and sincerity remains, you will see clearly what I am trying, and failing to convey to you. For now your ego is enjoying playing with spiritual concepts. It's fun, but the toys have to be dispensed with eventaully. When you are ready you will set them aside.
I wish you the best--genuinely.

[edit on 3-6-2010 by Silenceisall]

Originally posted by deadred
You want to be a teacher, and that's laudable, but you come on here acting like a guru or something when you don't have the patience of an elevated student. Period

All I'm doing is answering your questions. I react in relationship to how others act towards me, but I always try to then bring things back towards a proper understanding. I experience hostility mostly from nihilists who claim either that there is no soul or that I am perverting the teachings of the Buddha by implying their is an Atman, which there is. So I'm just holding my own and debating my case. I act in the exact same way when I'm debating anything else of intellectual merit.

reply to post by Silenceisall


I already know what you are trying to show me, the true light of wisdom. That is enlightenment. There's nothing higher that the mind can comprehend save actual self-realization, the next highest step, which can only be realized momentarily in a human body. But the actual eternal idea which is at the heart of meditation is the mystical light in the mind.

reply to post by deadred


Let's not nitpick. He hasn't claimed enlightenment and just stated the being bored comment was a joke. PERIOD.

If you were truly as enlightened as you claim to be, you WOULD have the patience you claim you don't have. Sounds like you're a legend in your own mind. Go back to school, buddy, maybe about the 8th grade or so. Maroon

U meant moron? Maroon is my favorite color.

[edit on 3-6-2010 by AProphet1233]

Enlightenment is confused with physical perfection, as if an enlightened person would be equivalent to superman, and while Indian yogis do act like that in "Autobiography of a Yogi" that's for you to strive for, all I want to do is teach people about enlightenment, which is literally understanding the light of wisdom within your mind, gained through introspective meditation. That is all, I don't promise magical powers although those would be cool but possibly having dangerous side effects and if you wanted to be technical about it, the sutras say that spiritual powers are secondary to transcendence. However, a truly enlightened person no longer follows the sutras, so they can obtain powers if they wanted, provided they were able to. The actual "powers" you gain through meditation are virtues such as wisdom, patience, tolerance, discernment, etc. Perfect virtues are almost a subjective judgment so the point is to have at least some virtues compared to none at all. In that sense I consider myself to be a fairly patient guy.

reply to post by Silenceisall


To relay on the "misconceptions" topic

regardless. what may be taught in this thread is not relevant to any teaching for those who understand it but have not experienced it. The intentions are good, and nothing is really written in vain, but it is not grasped correctly, because of the conceptions from audience that thinks they do understand it, when they actually don't. - it is, in part, misleading - at least in trying to explain it.

reply to post by filosophia


The best thing to do is to advise people to learn about them self, knowing oneself is and means wisdom.
And that is the whole secret of enlightenment

So no books, no paths, no directions or advise from others, but only you as the diciple, who is the student aswell as the teacher, you are it all and your light can't be lit by someone else.
No meditation either, it will come naturaly when one starts seeing the false

If one's at the step of no desire, what would be the next one?

Why try to reach nirvana? Why in general, and why do you?

Have you thought about whether it is not like Buddha teaches? What if we're here just once, randomly, and nothing makes a difference?


Instead of stating this is a nihilist speaking, please reply as you have done in this thread. I don't consider myself a nihilist, though it is close to my own view.