Thank you for bringing Meditation and opening the discussion on Buddhism on the boards, this is always good.
However as a fellow practitioner with a very limited amount of experience, I certainly would not call myself enlightened, I feel I must point
(lol) a few things about the true nature of Enlightenment and mind, so that others especially those first looking into this, may have a
balanced view, and also to correct any discrepancies between anything stated and what the actual Buddha and other Buddhist masters have actually
By the way, what stage or level of enlightenment would you say that you have obtained?
Are you in Nirvana now?
What is the difference between Nirvana and Samsara?
Originally posted by filosophia
I'm doing this because I'm BORED!
This confuses me if you are enlightened, or at a high state. You want to teach and discuss Buddhism because you are Bored?
Not to benefit and help other beings?
Is your mind therefore like a monkey at the moment locked in an house, and has to go to a window and look outside, or run around the house unable to
be perfectly content to just be?
The whole point of meditation is to find the center of your consciousness
Mind has a center?
Is your consciousness separate from mind, separate from all, it has a position?
What is it actually about your mind that is fixed, unchanging, not moving or truly separate?
After that, meditation is really about breaking free of your physical consciousness and raising upwards in your mind until you reach the point where
your mind becomes engulfed in light or "enlightened" and it feels as if you go out of your body into the realm of your mind
In fact as one recent Lama/Yogi with over 35 years of being an Monk Teacher who is very well regarded said in a teaching whilst I was there, this is
to be avoided, that:
Some people think that when they feel like they are about to fly or float, or their mind goes of into space this is meditation, it is not, it is just
another projection fantasy imagination
He was teaching specifically on mindfulness.
By turning your mind away from your body and towards your soul
You/we have souls? and they are separate from the Mind?
Have you read Buddha’s teachings on No Atman?
Subjugation of aggregates means the breaking free of all fetters, no longer having attachment
Isn’t the actual practise you describe the Mixing of Emptiness with Compassion?
This is very different to how you describe it.
Infact even though non attachment is very important, it is also very very important to also have this merging of Emptiness and Compassion otherwise,
and this is why I often caution many on here to take things slowly and ignore New Age Gurus etc, and quick Fix's or Kundalini without an Teacher,
because unless both are approached and integrated slowly and at the capability of the student Nihilism then Ensues or madness.
This is well written about in all the scriptures and teachings for thousand of years.
The correct approach is firstly to just increase concentration and start to get a lasso as such on the mind to have control of it from jumping from
one thing to another. Everyone should do this for a long time as a grounding practise first.
Non Attachment a part of emptiness (in the very basic sense) is dangerous as it leads to us not caring for those around us. Why Compassion should be
practised in the beginning stages with Concentration. Many years before the higher levels are approached. I honestly have seen the effects of
Emptiness taken to quickly on by some and the distress and mental problems it can cause.
Caution to all here, Concentration, Compassion are fine unless you want to be a yogi or monk. Then you need a face to face teacher.
Using compassion properly non attachment will arise anyhow in relation to self clinging and attachment. otherwise we also loose attachment to the
needs of others which should never be abandoned.
Enlightenment is equal to subjugation, as such in Buddhism there is no thing which is a Self
Self and Ego are very different things.
The most enlightened beings are very humble indeed, as they have subjugated the Ego, or rather taken on Emptiness properly, and also Compassion for
others puts this in balance. But also in addition these very enlightened beings also have the most Powerful and Strong personalities I have ever
This though is because they can see the Self for what it truly is, act naturally without fear and greed, anger, envy etc from that position of self
with compassion for others their main priority and goal.
Again As I mentioned above it is well written about the dangers of Nihilism which is NOT the goal of Buddhism, but to reveal the true nature of
Self/Mind without the Cankers of Lust, Anger, Hatred, Greed etc.
To eliminate suffering is the main goal of Buddhism.
Which paradoxically cannot be accomplished ourselves that is enlightenment fully until we have the desire to that for others before ourselves.
Again the mixing of Emptiness and Compassion, like Yin and Yang.
practice meditation. All you have to do is sit on the ground
This is true and one type, however the Buddha as I am sure you know first
practised and taught Walking meditation to allow mindfulness to develop.
Any thing can be a state of mediation. However you are right the usual way is to try and make the state of mind found in sitting mediation longer and
longer and then to start to spread into every day actions. Until your mind is always one pointed not affected by the emotions except compassion.
and try and push your thoughts to the tip of your head. Try and open up the chakra at the top of your head, just feel what it feels like. Observe
yourself, try and analyze what it is you are experiencing.
Again this is totally different to most of the advice I have received, from Recognised Reincarnations of Lamas and Teachers etc. And also personal
Don’t Push or pull and thoughts, you are right though just observe, no judgement, let them go, the aim is to not to identify with your thoughts.
Space exists with them which is a place to meet your self eventually.
If people want to physical Chakra work or Body Yoga that is cool, but also this should be done under the guidance of a teacher. Leaving Chakras open
can be dangerous non electricians should not rewire houses whilst the power is still on!
which is what meditation is all about: trying to envision the soul
I totally disagree.
So does all of Buddha’s Teachings, again I say have you read Buddha’s Teachings on No or Non Atman please do sharpish.
which is the goal of meditation: realizing your true nature.
Well that is 100% correct.
Basically the way to do it is to concentrate on what you are seeing with your eyes, and then shift that vision away from the object towards the mind
In subject Object meditation it is known and taught as the exact opposite of this actually.
Once concentration builds over usually many years of practise, your awareness can rest single pointedly on the object of meditation, not scattered the
whole awareness is there, like but also different when we gaze at someone we love, our concentration/awareness and mind seem to be focused totally on
that object, we are there in the Now awake and alert and appreciative.
There is known in this aspect of subject/object both "With Seed" and "without Seed" experiences as our practise deepens.
At first we may become very focused having lots of energy and awareness on the object, but there is still duality, an subject and object "this" and
"that" etc, this is known as "with seed".
However if we eventually and this takes a long time of practise, reach a point where we merge with the object as such of focus concentration, where we
merge with it, where all sense of separate self is lost.
This is "without seed". The seed being the start of the mind or awareness as separate reaching out to the point of concentration.
There are within this level then further divisions etc.
Enlightenment is still far from this point when "Without Seed", and total mindfulness of not one Object like a candle flame, breath, crucifix,
image, whatever the point of concentration but of the totality of the entire experience, everything in the universe is experienced "without seed"
total merging and concentration is found in an awakeness of everything around us without the obscuration of ego "this/That" labels terms etc.
This is why even though Subject Object meditation is very good and should be practised, and lays the foundations of a real expert it is just the
beginning, why Mindfulness, just watching without pushing/pulling judging is the eventual destination, Mindfulness leads to "without seed" of our
entire experience. And therefore the entire universe!
This is well written about for anyone interested in the Raja or King Yoga commentaries esp the first one written. It is one of the steps or
approaching of mastery of the Raja Yoga totality, but not the end (without seed on say an image) I think from memory but could be wrong it is Step 5
or level 5 of the eight steps to raja.
Without seed and mindfulness of all not just merging with one thing comes later and is the goal.
Any Questions OP?
[edit on 3-6-2010 by MischeviousElf]