Killing spree prompts UK gun laws review

Reply to post by gambon

Then you blow your clip in 2 secondsand get shot several times while trying to reload.

Body armor isn't magic. It hurts like hell and breaks bones and bruises organs to be shot while wearing it.

You're fictional spree would last all of 20 seconds.

Now, do it in a "gun-free" zone or in some heavilly anti-gun area and you'll likely have a field day free to roam and kill for hours before anything is done about it.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Reply to post by gambon

 

Then you blow your clip in 2 secondsand get shot several times while trying to reload.

Body armor isn't magic. It hurts like hell and breaks bones and bruises organs to be shot while wearing it.

You're fictional spree would last all of 20 seconds.

Now, do it in a "gun-free" zone or in some heavilly anti-gun area and you'll likely have a field day free to roam and kill for hours before anything is done about it.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

This map of the US shows that so-called "gun free zones" are really only "target rich environments" for criminals that allowed people to be killed, not saved them.

map

reply to post by gambon


I live in West Texas. People carry rifles in the back window of their car around here. Hell, my 12 year old son has an airsoft rifle with a red dot scope that can kill a cat/bird/squirrel, and fires 3-4 shots per second. This is a very open type of gun environment.

I do not carry a weapon. I abhor violence. But i will defend myself, and i do keep rifles at home (family heirloom type things). They are kept clean, unloaded, with the firing pins removed and locked in a separate box.

I walk my streets completely fearless. 100% fearless. This is a rough town full of illegals, gangbangers, and oilfield workers, and yet i have no fear even in our worst neighborhoods.

Fear is a choice. Of course, i am big enough to scare off just about any would be attacker....but the point is that one just needs to make the choice to live fearlessly. If guns are what is required to do such, then so be it.

My only fear is the tyranny imposed from DC. This is why i will never give up my guns.

[edit on 3-6-2010 by bigfatfurrytexan]

reply to post by gambon


That's what weak minds and propaganda will get you. over half the people in my state own guns and a good number of those own concealed weapon permits. We do not have mass shootings every night, and we certainly would not have to shut down three counties and cower in our houses all day while the police play "which way did he go, George" Loony Toons style.

Sure we have violent crimes from time to time, but you know what.. 99% of the time the guns involved were not owned or registered to the criminal. As it has already been said in this thread, laws do not keep guns out of criminals hands.

Think of government like a boyfriend/girlfriend type relationship. Now ask the questions you ask yourself to determine if you're in an abusive relationship.

Does government beat you down then say it's sorry, only to do the same thing next week?

Does government purposefully tell you or make you feel that you can't live without it?

Does government ever get caught serving the needs of someone else then tell you "we're just friends?"

If you answered yes, then it's time to dump your government.. =D

Hmm.. to have just thought that up.. it's a spot on analogy don't you think?..

I don't think more people with guns would have helped in this situation.
Although it makes an argument that criminals will find a gun when they need to.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Tis funny that cos Ive just got back from galveston and didnt see trucks full of gun racks any where apart from were family where on the bar 0 a ranch our friends own...

and my government very rarely sticks its beak in tbh , social system here is good , free healthcare , for if a plane does fall on you ..all sorts, free money if your lazy or unemplyed or ill or disabled ..etc etc pretty much an absence of police on streets , no national guard

[edit on 3-6-2010 by gambon]

[edit on 3-6-2010 by gambon]

Originally posted by IcarusDeepSea
I don't think more people with guns would have helped in this situation.
Although it makes an argument that criminals will find a gun when they need to.

You have absolutely no way to know that.

What if the first victim in this spree had been allowed by the UK to defend himself? Many would still be alive today and it might not even be news.

Check this link for real stories of people in the US defending themselves and others - and not from other law abiding citizens. From criminals that had illegally obtained guns - same as you see in the UK and other countries that have "banned" them for law abiding citizens.

Again, the police will not protect you, they will only investigate your death.

[edit on 6/3/2010 by centurion1211]

Originally posted by gambon
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

Tis funny that cos Ive just got back from galveston and didnt see trucks full of gun racks any where apart from were family where on the bar 0 a ranch our friends own...

[edit on 3-6-2010 by gambon]

Any idea how big Texas is? Galveston is about a 14 hour drive for me. Those folks are nothing like the folks here in West Texas.

Might as well visited Kansas and compare it to where i live.

Look I completly understand where you are coming from, but that will never happen here , there were tens of thousands of firearms here after the war , they have been slowly whittled down then added to over decades , but they are not dead common here , there is no culture of firearms in the main, in the uk

comparing the 2 is pointless , there is no hunting here for instance like in the usa...

Originally posted by gambon
there is no hunting here for instance like in the usa...

Understandable.

It's likely the animals would win any "hunting confrontation" in the UK.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


So there you go you have made the point not everywhere is the same

And i dont know mate , our friends made ther life in that ranch for 120 years , from cattle and oil...Hunt shoot and sail..I think they are TEXAN through and through, tell you what I will try get them on here ....

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

Originally posted by gambon
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

Tis funny that cos Ive just got back from galveston and didnt see trucks full of gun racks any where apart from were family where on the bar 0 a ranch our friends own...

[edit on 3-6-2010 by gambon]

Any idea how big Texas is? Galveston is about a 14 hour drive for me. Those folks are nothing like the folks here in West Texas.

Might as well visited Kansas and compare it to where i live.

yes i do now how big it is I drove there from florida..to houston then the ranch" near "rosenburg, ... then galveston to the boat etc ...big fine place

Originally posted by gambon
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

So there you go you have made the point not everywhere is the same

And i dont know mate , our friends made ther life in that ranch for 120 years , from cattle and oil...Hunt shoot and sail..I think they are TEXAN through and through, tell you what I will try get them on here ....

I would never question a fellow Texan on his loyalty to our Republic.

It is just a completely different world once you get off the Edwards Plateau. Up here it is dry, and we are made up of mostly rednecks and roughnecks. The motto on several bumper stickers you will find in this area refers to the roughneck lifestyle, "F#, Fight, and Trip Pipe".

Here in NW England barely anybody carries a gun. Theres no worry of being shot, except in some big-city dodgy areas - I live close to a few!

In that respect, I agree with the owning of small firearms to protect one's property. I was burgled, by some little scally who made off with a few hundred quids worth of stuff - a lot of money to a student like me! Surely if I'd pointed a pistol at him he would've done one, and if I had to shoot him/her to protect myself, I'd sure as hell like the law on my side.

Not carrying guns round streets though - plenty of people get into little tiffles all the time, which at the worst get resolved with a punch or two. If people carried guns as a way of life, I'd be genuinely scared walking around town. I can take a kicking,but not a bullet to the face! Been mugged, but hey - I'd rather give some guy with a knife my phone than have a stand off with us pointing guns at on another (In all honesty I probably wouldn't have the balls to shoot a guy in the street in this culture!)

As it is, I'm only scared at night.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


and these are rancher/vetrinarian , oiler owners, proud of the big star

Hell i might have to drop in bud...

[edit on 3-6-2010 by gambon]

Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by gambon
there is no hunting here for instance like in the usa...

Understandable.

It's likely the animals would win any "hunting confrontation" in the UK.

exactly my point hahaha but generaaly the biggest thing a brit sees in the wild is the deadly badger

[edit on 3-6-2010 by gambon]

Originally posted by selfisolated
Here in NW England barely anybody carries a gun. Theres no worry of being shot, except in some big-city dodgy areas - I live close to a few!

In that respect, I agree with the owning of small firearms to protect one's property. I was burgled, by some little scally who made off with a few hundred quids worth of stuff - a lot of money to a student like me! Surely if I'd pointed a pistol at him he would've done one, and if I had to shoot him/her to protect myself, I'd sure as hell like the law on my side.

Not carrying guns round streets though - plenty of people get into little tiffles all the time, which at the worst get resolved with a punch or two. If people carried guns as a way of life, I'd be genuinely scared walking around town. I can take a kicking,but not a bullet to the face! Been mugged, but hey - I'd rather give some guy with a knife my phone than have a stand off with us pointing guns at on another (In all honesty I probably wouldn't have the balls to shoot a guy in the street in this culture!)

As it is, I'm only scared at night.

That would be a start though. I doubt conceal and carry would cause more crime. In order to get the permit you are forced to register your weapon, yourself and take a course. The law is actually harder on you if you where to discharge your firearm in public. Lots of jail time for it. If you use it to defend someone, you better be able to prove it. Then again the criminals (who will always have guns) will think twice as they will never know who is packing and who is not. That's pretty well the purpose behind the issuance of conceal and carry permits to the public.

I may be wrong, but I thought in the UK you weren't allowed to own a firearm at all for any purpose as a common civilian. Am I wrong about this?

In the light of the fact that the killer's guns were both registered to him, and he held a valid licence, I think that in future, people that hold firearms licences must take a psychological test every six months to make sure that they are still in the right mental state to merit owning a firearm.
At least this would help to ensure that only people of 'sound mind' could own a gun legally.
Of course, this would not get rid of all the illegal guns, but it would be a step in the right direction.

Roy

[edit on 3/6/2010 by royspeed]

As it stands now in the UK, obtaining any sort of bangstick legally is nigh on impossible. I mean, you have to have doctors evaluate your mental health etc etc.

I think what the Texans here are saying is right. If every Brit had access to firearms then yes someone may have put this guy down, if they weren't too busy shooting at themselves for having different football shirts on.

Now as an ex soldier I would like to own a firearm in England, precisely because of these types of incidents. HOWEVER the streets of the UK would be a bloody mess.

Honestly the laws don't need touching. They're bad enough. And if the Cake and Arse Party that passes for Parliament doesn't use this situation for some
more draconian bs, I'll eat my brand new Stetson, wot I got for my birfday...


Sam Vimes: Got the hat, would like the iron.

reply to post by royspeed


Spot on Roy. I thought they did have some sort of check?

This bloke just went bonkers-doolally-madder-than-a-hat-full-of-fish. Seems
everyone is saying he a was decent chap and then flipped.

I was up that way last summer, parents have a cottage up in Ennerdale. It's
tight knit up there. Such a shame. Poor poor people.