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RAW: Flotilla Attackers/Aid Workers Prepare Weapons To Attack IDF Soldiers

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posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 08:16 AM
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Originally posted by jibeho

Originally posted by twitchy

Originally posted by jibeho
I haven't seen this new forensic evidence do you have a source?
...Glad you foed me before I had a chance to respond to your limited perspective.

I rarely say anything on this site without a source, but here's a few sources to perhaps help with your own limited perpesctive.

www.milliyet.com.tr...
www.hurriyet.com.tr...
www.zaman.com.tr...
www.memurlar.net...
www.todayszaman.com...
www.svd.se...


Well, thanks for the links. Only one of them is in English and that one English source only stated that the victims were shot at close range.

Please refer back to my post regarding Close Quarter Combat. This was hand to hand combat for cripes sake. So I would be very surprised if anyone who died didn't suffer from a close range shot. In fact, if anyone was shot from a distance you may just have an argument that these attackers were picked off by an IDF sniper. Sorry, but that's not the case is it?

Those that died were probably shot with a small caliber handgun.



A person was killed by gun fire before they boarded. Look at the reporters full video




posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 08:16 AM
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Its a wonder they did not have a pallywood film crew there.
en.wikipedia.org...

Then we would have yet another film.



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 08:17 AM
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Say whatever you want about me. But, if it was you going down that rope and being met with what they were met with, how many more-or less-would be dead>

Some of that footage was from the Freedom ships security cameras. The people were getting prepared for something even before the Commandos were spotted and/or boarded.

You apparently aren't watching the videos and attached stories but rahter just shooting off -from the hip.

And as far as being covered etc. I don't care if video comes out a year from now (from either side) that shows more of the truth. I hadn't seen most of these vids and thought they should be shared here.

Glad you liked them. lol



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 08:20 AM
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Maybe WE would not have been going down that rope.
Maybe that is a fault in your statement.



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 08:22 AM
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excellent post OP. Star and Flag.

I wish more people would wake up and realize that they are being blatantly misled into hating Jews under the guise of "opposing Israeli aggression".



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 08:23 AM
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Originally posted by jibeho
...they didn't have guns...

Quite right.
You could have saved yourself alot of typing if you had just stopped there. These people were peace activists, they were bringing relief supplies, they were in international waters, and they were defying an illegal blockade to bring humanitarian aid to a place where talmudic apartheid has created a 40 year humanitarian crisis, and they were attacked and murdered by IDF thugs before they even reached the blockade.
They were unarmed, I'm sorry you don't get that, but yeah, unarmed. NO amount of spin or double talk is going to change potato peelers, kitchen utensils, and paint rollers into some kind of floating arsenal of terrorists. People's hopes and dreams of peace, compassion, and reconciliation were aboard these ships, too bad they tried to haul 'that' cargo to Israel, it's akin to flushing something beautiful down the toliet.



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by twitchy

Originally posted by jibeho
...they didn't have guns...

Quite right.
You could have saved yourself alot of typing if you had just stopped there. These people were peace activists, they were bringing relief supplies, they were in international waters, and they were defying an illegal blockade to bring humanitarian aid to a place where talmudic apartheid has created a 40 year humanitarian crisis, and they were attacked and murdered by IDF thugs before they even reached the blockade.
They were unarmed, I'm sorry you don't get that, but yeah, unarmed. NO amount of spin or double talk is going to change potato peelers, kitchen utensils, and paint rollers into some kind of floating arsenal of terrorists. People's hopes and dreams of peace, compassion, and reconciliation were aboard these ships, too bad they tried to haul 'that' cargo to Israel, it's akin to flushing something beautiful down the toliet.


The blockade is Legal unless the international community deems otherwise. As far as I know no one has successfully challenged its legality. So, on it goes until they are stopped.

Peace activists? Yeah I'm sure there were some on board. There were also ARMED militants on board this lead vessel as well. Steel Rods, clubs and knives can kill just as well as a bullet. I guess I missed the video clip of the terrorists clubbing the IDF with peelers. It looked like clubs, pipes and rods to me. Please share your video.

Funny how people are only reacting to what the IDF did but not what the captain and crew of this ship failed to do.

No one want to address the ambush in this provoked event sponsored in part by Turkey and the leading AKP party to gain a political foothold in the region. I think Turkey wants its Empire back.

No one wants to address the constant hoarding of supplies and illegal sale of these supplies by Hamas.

No one recognizes the constant struggle for power between Hamas and Fatah since 2005 or the Battle of Gaza in June 2007. Now, if Hamas gets supplies first and guess who doesn't!!!?? The innocent civilians are paying the price for this relentless political battle.

Place the blame where it belongs. Hundreds of tons of supplies reach the region on a weekly basis. What happens then is anybody's guess.

If you poke a hornets nest you will get stung and this group got the Martyrs that they wanted and the biased press coverage to go with it. Israel took the bait in this set up.

[edit on 3-6-2010 by jibeho]



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 03:43 PM
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The more I see and read about this and who was onboard those ships ...

I think the next group heading there better listen to the orders give etc.

Those commandos won't be carrying paintball guns this time.

I am very surprised on 15 or 20 got killed.

Not that I support the killing but I do support the soldiers defending themselves. I wasn't there but from what I can see, they were justified in defending themselves.



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 04:02 PM
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Truthfully one problem Israel had is they started boarding ships too far out. Otherwise being that the waters off Gaza are considered a war zone the so called "peace activists" were way in the wrong here.

Should we just let them get to the 12 mile limit and sink them? After all it is a war zone and entering it unauthorized make them a combatant.

It simply was not unreasonable for the Israel navy to divert them to a Israel port for a cargo inspection.

Period.



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 04:10 PM
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Originally posted by RedBird
excellent post OP. Star and Flag.

I wish more people would wake up and realize that they are being blatantly misled into hating Jews under the guise of "opposing Israeli aggression".


Suggesting that paying attention to world events and criticizing those that cross the line of what is normally thought of being right is somehow making us into mindless sheep is ridiculous. Besides, I do believe most of us have the intelligence to separate a government actions from a religious faith.



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 04:19 PM
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Originally posted by virgom129
reply to post by anon72
 


Give it a rest mate..Your paid friends have already covered this..
I dont give a rats arse if the people on the boats were armed with tanks.

The israelis attacked at night .In international waters...

Join another thread with your BS please...


It's not an attack, it's called maritime interdiction.

An attack would have been an Israeli torpedo or airstrike sinking the ship.

The "aid" ships were blockade runners, Israel, like every other nation, has every right to interdict a blockade runner, even in international waters.

But of course, to many people, Israel doesn't even have the right to exist.



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 05:27 PM
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reply to post by wutone
 


I think I am going to have to agree with you on this one. I think there is just sudo-Jewish hating going on. Trying to sound tough because for some reason Hamas and it's buddies have gained some type of credibility in their minds.

[edit on 6/3/2010 by anon72]



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 04:26 PM
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reply to post by jibeho
 


Outstanding post there friend, star and friend.

To the 'Israeli Haters',

I am sick and tired of the posters that ignore everything other than that which supports their case.

Video footage from the IDF, Aljazeera and Press.tv support the claims made by the IDF.

Reports of the event by peace activits, mostly arab sourced, support the 'Israeli Haters' argument.

When confronted with actual video footage submitted by both Israeli and Arab sources, it shows to be more consistent with the IDF and not the imaginary Arab sources, so guess what? I choose to defend the IDF in this case.

Until someone releases video footage to the contrary, I will use logic, common sense and the 'Mark 1 human eye-ball' to decide who is at fault.

The theories that I have posted about earlier this week on this board were based on my observations of the footage provided and not some conspiracy theory or the imagination of an individual with blind hatred for a country and its people.

"Don't get high on your own junk"



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 05:36 PM
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I don't consider myself a racist. I'm far from an isreali hater, but I can not agree with their side in this matter.
It doesn't matter to me that the people on the flotilla were preparing themselves for a fight. That doesn't constitute terrorism in my books.

Isreal has kept the gaza strip in constant turmoil for the last 40+ years. They have a history of attacking civilian locations. they have a history of blocking humanitarian aid.
With that knowledge, the people on the boat surely expected that they would be attacked. And given the fact that they have bombed hospitals in the past, i wouldn't be to trusting of the IDF either.

Here are the facts that can't be disputed.
1. the flotila was in international waters
2. the IDF directed them to go to thier own port for inspection. the aid was not destined for isreal.
3. the IDF attacked at night, and they were armed with weapons themselves.
4. the flotila passengers attempted to defend themselves from forceful boarding by a millitary group.
5. the "weapons" used by the passengers were rudimentary at best. are they potentially deadly? yes. but so is the laptop i use for work if i bash someone with it. That doesn't make it a deadly weapon, until i use it as such though

if you were on that flotila, and you were about to be arrested in international waters by the regime that has terrorized your home land for the last 4 decades, you wouldn't just allow them to take you.

There's no doubt in my mind that Isreal had no intention of allowing the aid to get to those that need it. This vessel and the people on it, made an attempt to circumvent that, and it cost them thier lives.

In any case, Isreal was the attacker in this instance. there's really no other way around it. If they had no boarded it, the fight would have never occured. The flotila passengers were not going to board and isreali ship, so the fault is on Isreal.

No amount of media spin is going to change my stance on this. I can't support what isreal has done in the past, nor will I support what they do in the future if they continue on this path.

I'm not saying that Isreal should not have the right to exist. But they don't have the right to take more and more land from neighboring countries, and they dame sure don't have the right to attack people in international waters, for not obeying commands from them.
They were in international waters, and as such, they don't have to abide by any laws but their own.

Isreal really need to stop acting like bullies and expecting the world to back them up when they do.


[edit on 4-6-2010 by Pumcy]



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 05:54 PM
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reply to post by Pumcy
 


Pumcy, why do you think they have a history of attacking civilian locations?

Because the cowardly militants hide in civilian loactions using them as shields.

Nobody cries ATROCITY about that do they?

Why?

Because out of Hamas and Israel, only Israel is accountable by International Law.

A fact that most choose not to recognise when claiming Israelis are murderers and guilty of war crimes.

Hamas and Hezbullah use International Law as a weapon against Israel as it does not apply to them!

Do not take my word for it, go research it yourself.

Whilst you are at it, go research urban fighting against militants in Northern Ireland, Iraq and Afghanistan.

The saddest thing about all this Palestinian defence is that they themselves are anit-west and unless we are working to spread the BS for them, they would happily suicide-bomb our families.

Western media is being used on an unprecedented scale, people are so high on their own junk regarding 'Jews run the world' that they are too blind to see that they have indirectly become the voice peice of the arab/muslim fundementalists and all the while we are paralysed by politcial correctness to not dare point the finger at muslims/Arabs.


I have no problem with moderate muslims, infact I hold them in high regard but the fundemetalist sect who choose to pervert the region to their own aims are extremely dangerous people.

Because they cannot hope to fight conventionally against such opposition, they adopt guerrilla warfare and take it to the extremes.

Please, as a counter-point, look at the other side of this argument without bias, even if it is just to broaden your perspective.



[edit on 4-6-2010 by Skellon]



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 09:39 PM
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Yeah, yeah. They were pointing an RPG. Oh, wrong video. Same BS though. Shills.



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 10:26 PM
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Originally posted by jibeho
Unarmed?? really? Perhaps they didn't have guns but they were certainly armed enough to ambush, club and stab these first soldiers who dropped in on ropes. They brought the fight on and ignored all warnings. Perhaps you should blame the ships captain for not turning away. He is ultimately responsible for the safety of his passengers.

Death is death. Sad but true. In this case it is more like martyrdom in the eyes of those on board these ships. They knew what they were getting into.

No one had to die in this incident. The choice to ambush was made by the violent element on this ship. There was a clear alternative to what happened here. Ask the captain why he refused the order to head to port.


Ambush. You keep using that word, but I do not think you know what it means.



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 10:30 PM
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reply to post by anon72
 


Video #1:
This video demonstrates these clowns with sticks were getting ready to be boarded. Why? Because they had already been shot at prior to this and pretty much knew what to was coming. The video does not show the before and after. Note the intro narrative production.

Video #2:
Same narrative production which strongly suggests it was produced by the same people. I wonder who those people could be? Again, this is out of context because it shows nothing prior to or after.

Video #3:
The link took me to a blank LiveLeak page so I am unable to comment.

Video #4:
Same folks who made the first two. Please tell me terrorists who were trained and ready would bring more than sling shots and marbles?

Video #5:
This demonstrates the ship was being fired upon before the IDF got on board. Unfortunately after that it gets spliced and is hard to tell what is going on.

Video #6:
From the same people again. Indeed it shows the IDF getting whacked with improvised weapons (sticks, chairs, and whatever was at hand).

You can see what you want to but you are overlooking some seriously large elephants in the room. They were in international waters. It was a Turkish ship. Israel is not at war with Turkey so Turkey is a neutral country with regards to Israel. Now if Israel has a valid and legitimate reason to suspect the ships are carrying contraband to Hamas, they can attack the ships ...sometimes. See paragraph 67(a) below.

www.icrc.org...

However, Israel is not currently occupying Gaza so it is not directly meet the definitions of a belligerent occupation here:

www.icrc.org...

This makes the blockade less and less legal. Finally, a blockade is legal as long as it is not intended to excessive damage of the civilian population in relation to the military advantage gained. Check it out here:

www.usip.org...

The blockade has destroyed the economy of Gaza, many of the children are malnourished, and the citizens cannot rebuild their homes which were destroyed. I will not link those items because they are commonly found from many reputable sources.

Here is a partial list of what you cannot bring into Gaza:

gisha.org...

Go ahead, read it. Even if the supplies are sent through Israel to Gaza, they get screened against these criteria. I agree they should not allow weapons in but the list demonstrates the party in power in Israel's only intent is making life for the people in Gaza untenable. Elsewhere they destroy Palestinian homes and build Israeli settlements. This is just the version of population reduction they are using in Gaza.

If that is not "excessive" what else is? Therefore the blockade does not meet the law, it is illegal, therefore the boarding was not legal, and the clowns on board hitting the IDF with sticks are considered initiating self defense.

I feel bad for the folks on both sides who got hurt in such a ridiculous farce of publicity. I feel even worse for those who only want to look a bits and pieces of "evidence" to foster a preconceived notion of reality when the facts are out there.

If you want to see Israel's actions as legitimate. Fine. Would you feel the same if Turkish forces had done that to an Israeli aid convoy in international waters?



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 10:35 PM
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Originally posted by vox2442

Originally posted by jibeho
Unarmed?? really? Perhaps they didn't have guns but they were certainly armed enough to ambush, club and stab these first soldiers who dropped in on ropes. They brought the fight on and ignored all warnings. Perhaps you should blame the ships captain for not turning away. He is ultimately responsible for the safety of his passengers.

Death is death. Sad but true. In this case it is more like martyrdom in the eyes of those on board these ships. They knew what they were getting into.

No one had to die in this incident. The choice to ambush was made by the violent element on this ship. There was a clear alternative to what happened here. Ask the captain why he refused the order to head to port.


Ambush. You keep using that word, but I do not think you know what it means.



The militants on this ship were ready and lying in wait for the IDF to rappel down the ropes and attacked before some of these troops even hit the ground. Is it a classic infantry ambush? No. An unexpected preplanned surprise attack/ambush? YES!! These guys came out of the woodwork and mobbed the first officers to drop in on the ship.



posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by jibeho
Peace activists? Yeah I'm sure there were some on board. There were also ARMED militants on board this lead vessel as well. Steel Rods, clubs and knives can kill just as well as a bullet.


How in the name of god can you arm yourself with a bullet? what planet are you from?

Also kitchen knives can be found in a kitchen, clubs can me made from chair legs, rods can be made from most items.



Funny how people are only reacting to what the IDF did but not what the captain and crew of this ship failed to do.


The only thing they failed to do was to deliver food and aid to starving people.



No one want to address the ambush in this provoked event sponsored in part by Turkey and the leading AKP party to gain a political foothold in the region. I think Turkey wants its Empire back.


I think you're living in the past mate.



No one wants to address the constant hoarding of supplies and illegal sale of these supplies by Hamas.


Much in the same way YOU don't recognise the use of illagal weapons on unarmed civilians.



No one recognizes the constant struggle for power between Hamas and Fatah since 2005 or the Battle of Gaza in June 2007. Now, if Hamas gets supplies first and guess who doesn't!!!?? The innocent civilians are paying the price for this relentless political battle.


Legally elected Hamas. yeah.



Place the blame where it belongs.


i shall. Israel.



If you poke a hornets nest you will get stung and this group got the Martyrs that they wanted and the biased press coverage to go with it. Israel took the bait in this set up.


Mate, you poke me in the eye, you lose teeth. Simple.



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