Guns or No Guns?? Your views.

Originally posted by blupblup

THAT is the difference between our nations right there...
You guys would be lost without your guns... you may have to actually fight and defend yourselves.

We are happy to have a scrap and get on with it..... a fight is just that, a fight?

It's just impossible for you to understand... You're brought up thinking a gun is the solution to all your problems, with a gun nobody can mess with you and you're far safer in your home and on the street with a gun..... the reality is you're about 4 times as likely to be killed or injured by a gun if you carry one, than you are if you don't.


Enjoy the guns

That may be the difference between our countries , I think as a whole the UK is far more violent than the US. Other than threatening myself or my family with bodily harm , I doubt there is nothing that you could do to get me to fight someone.

Like I said , I was in The Marine Corps , I've been in various martial arts since the age of 12 and I'm a pretty well trained fighter , Training in Marine Corps Martial arts , Judo and Boxing has not made me a more violent person , on the contrary I believe it has made me more docile because I KNOW I have control of most hand to hand situations , I also have discipline and respect for my life and the lives of others. (I'm that quiet friend that you have that likes to joke and would never hurt a fly) Nothing good comes of a fight and adults should be able to talk things out in an adult manner , and if that doesn't work then agree to disagree. My VERBAL JUDO is strong as well...lol

That Being said , If you are a threat to my life I will end you If you are a threat to the lives of my Wife and children I will end you

I don't go around playing cowboy and neither do any of my friends or associates. That's juvenile... In order for me to react with deadly force , you really must leave me with no other option... and at that point it's pretty much out of my hands.

As far as being 4 times as likely to be killed by a gun if you own one you could delete the word gun and add car and you'd probably have the same result, I don't dispute that , In fact here is an article today that will back up that claim. SOURCE I'm not saying that EVERYONE that has a gun license should carry a gun , just like EVERYONE that has a drivers license shouldn't drive. I'm actually for a standardized training system being set up so that you'd have to take firearms safety classes , just as you have to take drivers ed to get your car license , But in the hands of a well trained operator I'm sure that (4 times) statistic would be greatly minimized just like if you took a poll of F1 or NASCAR drivers that had accidents in their personally owned vehicles , I'm sure It would be just as low.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one

reply to post by FearNoEvil


You fail to understand the situation.

Drunken yob gets into a fight with another drunken yob. Bottle gets smashed. One of the drunken yobs ends up in hospital with cuts than may leave him scarred.

Drunken yob gets into a fight with another drunken yob, both of whom have guns. Shots are fired. One of the drunken yobs ends up in hospital with gunshot wounds, one ends up in a morgue and 3 bystanders also end up in the morgue.

Originally posted by EyesWideShut
I think as a whole the UK is far more violent than the US.

You say that, but members from the USA state they want guns to defend themselves, whereas members from the UK fail to understand the need for guns.

I do wonder whether most people in the USA really feel they need a gun go feel safe? if so, it's not a country I'd want to live in.

I like feeling quite safe without owning a gun, knife or any other weapon.

(and yes, events like that in Cumbria occur somewhere very few years - but having a gun in my house wouldn't have helped me whilst I was outside fixing the fence, would it?)

reply to post by Essan
I visited England in 1990. It really wasn't all that bad( well the food, ehh) but things must have really changed.

The pictures you people are drawing for me are really scary, with all the drunken brawls, broken bottles and what not.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


My friend, I come from what I suppose you would call the lower class of human society here in the UK.

Despite what those that write the history books may tell you, it is us who won Britain it's Empire and it us that won them countless wars.

We were bred for our ability to fight.

It is not a new phenomonon, it has gone on for centuries.

Maybe I have been playing it up a bit.
But violence is real and whilst not ever present the threat of it is never far away.
Violent confrontation can at times flare up over the most irrelevant things.

But it isn't unique to the 'lower classes'.

Far from it, some of the biggest psychopathic lunatics I have met have come from decidedly middle class backgrounds.

I have studied, just out of personal interest and as part of a degree, the history of violence in British society and could speak at great length on it.
I also have my own life experiences to draw from.
Here is not the time or place.

But I assure you, if guns were easier to obtain than what they are now there are plenty of people out there who would be prepared to use them even over the pettiest of insults.
Sad, but true.

reply to post by Freeborn


So when did this shift occur?

As recently as the 1930's people were walking around with pistols and firearms of all types were readily available. Did blood run in the streets?

edit to change date

[edit on 3-6-2010 by thisguyrighthere]

reply to post by Essan


Then you should outlaw bottles by your logic.

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by Essan

 

I visited England in 1990. It really wasn't all that bad( well the food, ehh) but things must have really changed.

The pictures you people are drawing for me are really scary, with all the drunken brawls, broken bottles and what not.

Hey, they happened just as much in 1990. If not more.

In 99% of the country it's no more violent. Some inner city areas have deteriorated due to an increase in knife obsession by kids with very, very small penises. But that's all.

In Britain, violent acts are big news simply because violent acts are big news - not everyday occurences.

If you watch the film Coyote Ugly there are more serious fights in that than occur in a typical British pub every 10 years. Love the film, but it did look like a violent place compared with Britain!

reply to post by blupblup


I didn't see you say that in the post that I was replying to, and I did not quote out of context as I was specifically replying to that one comment.

And if you truely know and believe that, then why did you say the same thing in your reply to me.....

Guns breed violence...it's a fact...whether it be peoples mentality around guns... the need to carry one, the way they are worshipped and revered over there... whatever..... they really do.

Bolding mine.

You can't attribute human qualities to an inanimate object, guns do not breed anything, they really don't, people do.

If a madman was walking around stabbing people, it would not last long as people would just take him down....

Really ?

People didn't take this guy down when he was repeatly stabbing and decapitating a man on the Greyhound bus, they all fled in fear.....

www.nationalterroralert.com...


No one took this man down before he stabbed eight people to death.....

www.thaindian.com...


Or this man before he stabbed eight children to death and injured five more.....

www.thaindian.com...



Or this man who stabbed 28 children and three adults .......

www.thaindian.com...



So please don't say that a nutcase with a knife can't do as much damage as one with a gun because they can and do. Like I said if someone is gonna go balistic and go on a killing spree and don't have access to a gun they will use whatever is at hand, they do just as much damage, just as easily as they would with a gun.



Edit to fix quote

[edit on 6/3/2010 by chise61]

Originally posted by FearNoEvil
reply to post by Essan

 

Then you should outlaw bottles by your logic.

My logic is that without guns people get cut. With guns people get killed.

But anyway, the logical thing would be to ban alcohol

reply to post by Essan


Isnt the act of assault already banned?

Originally posted by Essan
But anyway, the logical thing would be to ban alcohol

NOOOOO!!! You don't want to do that! Just look at what happened in the US during Prohibition.

reply to post by vor78


Would be a really fast way to get the country flooded with guns though.

reply to post by chise61


Ar, but the argument is that if someone just happened to be walking by with a gun on him, he'd have shot the perperator before he could kill so many people.

Of course, this presupposes normal people walk around with a gun on them all the time - and know who to use said guns.

I'd rather the customers in my shop were not packed, even if it does mean that if a madman comes into my shop they won't be able to stop him in his tracks.

I'd rather my customers spent their money on an asteroid shield to prevent a comet hitting my shop overnight.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
reply to post by Essan

 

Isnt the act of assault already banned?

Yes. I assume it is in the USA as well?

So no-one needs to defend themselves against an attack because it's illegal to attack anyone

Therefore no-one needs a gun or knife or even a fist

reply to post by Essan


That's what I was getting at. The bans are stacked a mile deep and not one of them produces the result promised yet people clamor for more and more bans.

If it's illegal to ride around town killing people with a shotgun and some guy went ahead and did it what difference is making that shotgun "extra-illegal" going to make?

reply to post by Essan



Well you guys are already trying to Ban Drinking glasses in Pubs so I guess , beer IS
the next logical step.

First Guns , Then Knives , Now Glass?!?

What is Next? A Ban on Solid Objects?

Clearly the UK (or at least the majority of it) has completely Lost all forms of Intelligence and Reason and replaced them with Baseless Fears of practically everything that "Might" hurt them. My message to the few left in the UK who still have Grey matter between their ears and are disgusted as I am at this utter nonsense. Leave as soon as you can, while you still can, there are to few of your kind left in the UK to hope to turn the UK around at this stage, the majority of your countrymen have Degraded themselves to little more than thoughtless Animals that run solely on fear and instinct. My message to my fellow Americans is to do whatever possible to prevent the USA from taking the same course that the UK is, the UK is Like the Titanic heading right for the Icebergs, we need to change course and go around them to avoid the same Fate.

Until Later -John Galt

You would think that people living in one of the most violent countrys in the world The U.K. would want an option to protect themselves. Yet it seems that many are willing to accept their role as victims in a trade for an imagined safety.
At least when your raped or stabbed it will be caught on CCTV

Ben Franklin said it best "People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both."

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Yeah making Shotguns "Extra-illegal" Means Now if you're caught with one you get hit with "Double-Life"...lol



[edit on 3-6-2010 by EyesWideShut]

Originally posted by Essan

Originally posted by FearNoEvil
reply to post by Essan

 

Then you should outlaw bottles by your logic.

My logic is that without guns people get cut. With guns people get killed.

I know, I was just harassing you. I understand where your coming from.

I live in a state where you can carry a gun openly in public without a permit. I don't carry a gun in public and I don't see many people that do. When I see a person with a gun, I actually feel safer. It's like having a police officer around.

Peace