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One of the most compelling pieces of evidence we have is graffiti on ancient stone monuments in places that they didn't mean to be shown. Like on foundations when we dig down below the floor level, up in the relieving chambers above the King's chamber, and in many monuments of the Old Kingdom, temples, the Sun temples, other pyramids. Well, the graffiti gives us a picture of organization where crews, where a gang of workmen was organized into two crews.
So for example, we have a name, compounded with the name of Menkaure, and it seems to translate 'the drunks or the drunkards of Menkaure.' There's one that's well attested, actually in the relieving chambers above the Great Pyramid, the Friends of Khufu gang, the Drunks of Menkaura gang, and then you have the green phyles and then the powerful ones. None of this sounds like slavery, does it?
And in fact it gets more intriguing. Because in certain monuments you find the name of one gang on one side of the monument and another gang, we assume competing on the other side of the monument. You find that to some extent in the temple, the Pyramid temple of Menkaure.
Why is there such a need to look for yet another culture, to say 'No, it wasn't these people, it was some civilization that's lost, even older.' And to some extent I think we feel the need to look for a lost civilization on time's other horizon because we feel lost in our civilization and somehow we don't want to face the little man behind the curtain as you had in "The Wizard of Oz." We want the great and powerful wizard with all the sound and fury.
We are lucky because we found this whole evidence of the workmen who built the pyramids and we found the artisans and Mark found the bakery and we found this settlement of the camp, and all the evidence, the hieroglyphical inscriptions of the overseer of the site of the Pyramid, the overseer of the west side of the Pyramid, the craftsman we found, the man who makes the statue of the overseer of the craftsman, the inspector of building tombs, director of building tombs—I'm telling you all the titles. We found 25 unique new titles connected with these people. Then who built the pyramids? It was the Egyptians who built the pyramids. The Great Pyramid is dated with all the evidence, I'm telling you now to 4,600 years, the reign of Khufu. The Great Pyramid of Khufu is one of 104 pyramids in Egypt with superstructure. And there are 54 pyramids with substructure. There is support (that) the builders of the pyramids were Egyptians. They are not the Jews as has been said, they are not people from a lost civilization. They are not out of space. They are Egyptian and their skeletons are here, and were examined by scholars, doctors and the race of all the people we found are completely supporting that they are Egyptians.
Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by Devino
If we wanted to be really, really stupid we could point out that there is no mention of the pyramids at Giza in Exodus. So if we took the bible to be true we could claim that the pyramids had to be newer than Exodus since they did not exist at the time of Exodus.
Originally posted by lonestranger
I watched the videos (good stuff!!). But the one thing I didn't catch and maybe someone could help (think the video ended or cut off). They mention the Band Of Peace and it looks as if they built the pyramids along the Nile where it USE to be. By figuring out where the Nile is NOW they can get an idea of when the pyramids were built. I never heard of a date.
I think it would be a really good idea for science to get to the "Date" these structures were built. Maybe they have and I missed it (I'm not an expert). I've heard around 2500 BC and up to maybe over 10,000 years old. IF 10,000 years, THAT would be a heck of a big deal to me.
Too bad there wasn't all the politics involved...
Originally posted by stereologist
The so-caleld original expedition entered a pyramid that had been entered centuries before.
As far as we know, the first people to enter the great pyramid since the time of its construction were the Arabs in 820 AD. Under caliph, Al Mamoun, the Arabs broke into the great pyramid (since they could not find the hidden entrance) by boring into the limestone with crude instruments. After months they did manage to break in and find the descending passage.
Source.
The only object that Al Mamun's men found in the Great Pyramid was the coffin in the King's Chamber. They searched frantically to find treasure but found nothing. Legend has it that to pacify "his" disappointed men Al Mamum had a treasure of gold hidden in the pyramid at night, amounting to just the wages due to his men, and explained the coincidence on the wisdom of Allah.
Empty? Of course! What is interesting of course is unadorned walls of the pyramids. Other chambers were highly decorated such as the tombs in the Valley of the Kings or the tombs at Saqqara that I have seen as well.
The claims about Vyse are appear to me to be overblown by people with wacko ideas about the pyramids.
If you have a ridiculous claim often with zero merit you have to get the real data out of the way to get the stupid ideas displayed.
If we wanted to be really, really stupid we could point out that there is no mention of the pyramids at Giza in Exodus.
One of the most compelling pieces of evidence we have is graffiti...
Originally posted by The_Seeker
Originally posted by lonestranger
I watched the videos (good stuff!!). But the one thing I didn't catch and maybe someone could help (think the video ended or cut off). They mention the Band Of Peace and it looks as if they built the pyramids along the Nile where it USE to be. By figuring out where the Nile is NOW they can get an idea of when the pyramids were built. I never heard of a date.
I think it would be a really good idea for science to get to the "Date" these structures were built. Maybe they have and I missed it (I'm not an expert). I've heard around 2500 BC and up to maybe over 10,000 years old. IF 10,000 years, THAT would be a heck of a big deal to me.
Too bad there wasn't all the politics involved...
They do go into detail somewhere with regards to the Nile and where it was and wasnt located, just cant remember which one.
When you don't name the group it leads to confusion as I was thinking you meant something other than what you intended. So many of your comments are based on my lack of understanding of what you meant.
Actually, you'll find that the comments on Vyse were made by wackos=, or blown out of proportion by wackos.
And then you quote me out of context. Lovely.
The only link we really have to Khufu, as far as I know of, is the graffiti found by Richard William Howard Vyse and this is suspect to being fraud as well as a mispronunciation of the name Khufu.
First of all they say that only inscribed is the second room—it's not true. All the five relieving chambers are inscribed. Number two, there are some inscriptions there that cannot be written by anyone except the workmen who put them there. You cannot go and reach there. It has to be the man who put the block above the other one to do that.
Cracks in some of the joints reveal hieroglyphs set far back into the masonry. No 'forger' could possibly have reached in there after the blocks had been set in place - blocks, I should add, that weigh tens of tons each and that are immovably interlinked with one another. The only reasonable conclusion is the one which orthodox Egyptologists have already long held - namely that the hieroglyphs are genuine Old Kingdom graffiti and that they were daubed on the blocks before construction began.
Originally posted by stereologist
Of course the stone containers held sarcophogi that held the mummies, but you know what I mean.
What I think is interesting is that the pyramids in general are not adorned. The tombs were, but not the pyramids.
Here is the real clincher in all of this, when Vyse found the graffiti it contained pieces of 'text' that were later figured out. Wouldn't Vyse be a genius to create a forgery which was not understood at the time, but subsequently was figured out to be correct.
Only two months before, his [Vyse’s] rival, the Italian explorer Captain Caviglia, had stirred archaeological circles with his find of quarry inscriptions in some of the tombs around the Great Pyramid. These quarry inscriptions took the form of hieroglyphs daubed on the building blocks with a red paint, and had been used by the builders of the Old Kingdom...
The question has never been answered, why do inscriptions appear only in the air space chambers that Col. Howard- Vyse opened, but none were found in Davison’s Chamber, with which the Colonel had nothing to do, discovered earlier, in 1765?
Serious problems also arise when we examine the nature of the inscriptions themselves. Samuel Birch, a hieroglyph expert of the British Museum, was among the first to analyze the air chamber paintings, and noted a number of peculiarities among them which remain unresolved to this day. These "peculiarities" represent serious mistakes on the part of the forger. Birch noted, for example, that many of the daubings were not hieroglyphic but hieratic.
In fact, Birch and later Egyptologists such as Carl Richard Lepsius and Sir Flinders Petrie were disturbed at the number of exceptions of usage in the air space chamber, inscriptions found by Col. Howard-Vyse that have absolutely no parallel throughout 4,000 years of hieroglyphic writing.
...in Col. Howard-Vyse’s chambers one finds great confusion concerning the appearance of the name Khufu. At the time these chambers were being opened, the Pharaoh’s cartouche had not yet been fully revealed from other excavations, and there were several possibilities to choose from. As a result, a number of crude hybrid forms appear throughout the air chambers, such as "Khnem-Khuf," "Souphis," "Saufou," etc. The problem with the first example, "Khnem-Khuf," is that we know today that it signifies "brother of Khufu" and refers to Khafre, Khufu’s eventual successor. For years, this appearance of a second king’s name has not been explained, and as Gaston Maspero observed in The Dawn of Civilization: "The existence of the two cartouches of Khufu and Khnem-Khufu on the same monument has caused much embarrassment to Egyptologists."
The image below (right) is Stadelmann’s photograph of the Khufu inscription in Campbell’s Chamber of the Great Pyramid, first discovered in 1837 by R.W.H. Vyse. The image to the left shows the alleged “Khufu” inscription in the Abydos King List.
Adding to this further is the fact that, where the right hieroglyph name for Khufu does appear, it is spelled wrong. The hieroglyph sources available to Col. Howard-Vyse in 1837, Sir John Gardner Wilkinson’s Material Hieroglyphia, and Leon de Laborde’s Voyage de l’Arabee Petree, incorrectly depicted the first symbol of Khufu’s name as an open circle with a dot in the middle…
Actually, we have the testament of Pharaoh Khufu himself that he only did repair work on the Great Pyramid.