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Row over 'black only' council job ad

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posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 10:03 AM
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It is my impression that a lot of you are being too absolutist and narrow; not to mention defensive.

Of course everyone needs to work for what they get. Of course there should not be discrimination, in a general sense. But no rule is absolute and universal. Sometimes the exception is the right way to go in the circumstance.

Where there has been such a long a blatant history of discrimination perpetrated by one group upon others, a discrimination which has passed only in rhetoric and not so much in actual practice, then there indeed needs to be some sort of "reverse" discrimination or procedure to correct the wrongs -- not forever, but as long as the current reality says its necessary.

Peace. BTW I am white and also worked for everything I have, but have no problem accepting that while things are tough for all of us, some have a greater, and unnecessary burden due only to their race, ethnicity, whatever.




posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 10:08 AM
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Originally posted by wayno
White people have been getting the unfair advantage for years and years. There is a huge legacy to make up for. So what a couple of positions are being offered to reverse the trend.

Get over it. I know it doesn't feel good, but that is what blacks have had to put with forever. They still do in many places; only less in your face than before.

Its going to take more than a couple of special opportunities to make up for past wrongs and eventually level the playing field.



You win the ''idiotic post of the month award'' for that. Are you saying that white people today....who had NOTHING to do with past wrongs should be punished for our ancestors? Should we also treat all Germans as nazis too and punish them for the war or maybe the Greeks need some punishment for the wrong deeds they did 100's of years ago when they were an empire? A 'yes' or 'no' one word answer please as I'm not that eager to hear more of your twisted logic.



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 10:10 AM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 



Because it is at someone else's expense and is causing supression.


You are correct. It is almost a universal truth that anything gained in this world is at someone else' expense. If its at the expense of the one that has had the greater advantage all along; then so be it. If it is at the expense of the privileged; then so be it.

I am not ignorant of the fact however, that not all whites are privileged and sometimes its the guy with the least going for him that might suffer at the hands of a discriminatory practice. This isn't cool whatsoever, but it doesn't negate the need to correct the bigger wrong.



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 10:12 AM
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reply to post by Hawkwind.
 


NO.
Happy? I hope you also read the subsequent posts of mine that address your somewhat silly assertions.

Peace.



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 10:18 AM
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reply to post by wayno
 


What about the racism aimed at one black tribe to another.
Or North Africans shown towards sub-Saharan Africans.
Or the inherent racism within the Indian caste system.
Blah blah blah.
There are lot's of examples of non-white racism.

Racism takes many shapes and foms and should be resisted, whenever it rears it's ugly head, regardless of who is being the racist!

As I said, every single black person I know hates this 'positive discrimination', it makes them feel worthless, as if they are incapable of competing on their own merits.
Some are.
Some aren't.
Exactly the same as white people.

A level playing field, nothing more, nothing less.
Pretty simple really!



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 10:21 AM
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reply to post by Happyfeet
 


At least they were honest to tell you what they were doing. 99% of the time they just jerk folks around making them interview and think they have a legitimate shot at the job when they don't.

Of course its racism. There are more extreme examples that are well documented in the states. Qualifying scores on tests different between races, using "diversity" scores to more than make-up for lack of performance on tests or prior experience, etc.

Fortunately, I think this stuff is on the decline. It certainly is less public than it was 10 years ago.

For all of the folks who claim that this kind of treatment is due to minorities because what has happened in the past don't get it. It is a plantation mentality that does not serve the minority. Minorities can compete and win jobs on merit and do every day. When this kind of thing happens, it diminishes all minorities because it makes all perceived as affirmative action hires, even when they are not. They start the job with less credibility.

Its racist and it needs to be routed out of society.



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 10:31 AM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 



As I said, every single black person I know hates this 'positive discrimination', it makes them feel worthless, as if they are incapable of competing on their own merits.


That is great and as it should be. I have no problem with anything you are saying as a general rule. Everyone, regardless of race or background has a responsibility to take care of themselves. I was brought up to be fiercely independent and self sufficient -- almost to a ridiculous extent,


Nevertheless, I don't see a problem with "occasionally" giving someone an extra help when their circumstances warrant it. I don't really think we are talking about a universal declaration of giving non whites an advantage from here on in as some seem to think. This is a small and temporary measure; thats all. No big deal in my mind.

The other kinds of discrimination you site, such as in Africa and India are endemic, and wrong, without question.



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 10:34 AM
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It seems to me that when you restrict something to members of a certain race that you have a clear cut case of discrimination.

Imagine what would happen if you did the same thing but said that only "Whites" could take the position.



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 10:34 AM
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Originally posted by wayno
White people have been getting the unfair advantage for years and years. There is a huge legacy to make up for. So what a couple of positions are being offered to reverse the trend.

Get over it. I know it doesn't feel good, but that is what blacks have had to put with forever. They still do in many places; only less in your face than before.

Its going to take more than a couple of special opportunities to make up for past wrongs and eventually level the playing field.


OK, I'm White and British and male, so I'll appologise to the black man for the slave trade, to women for subjugating them for so long, to America, India, Africa and Australia for colonisation... Oh wait, that's right, I didn't personally do any of those things did I?

Whichever way you try to twist this, it's racist. 2 wrongs do not make a right and I would be totally offended if I was black to see this advertised, just as I would be if I saw a position for white only applicants for a job.

I think I may just be writing a letter of complaint to these lovely racist people.



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 10:41 AM
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The Europeans have been politically insane for some years now, and are long since a lost cause.

There's not much point being angry about this, the British, or at least the well educated ones, have been emigrating in droves for some years now, leaving behind the unwashed masses to run an increasingly diseased social structure. Sort of an early South African "white flight" type of deal. I work with a lot of Brits here in the US who fled the insanity, apparently Canada and Australia are even more popular bolt holes. The British do tend to run away from their social problems and hide in other people's countries, could you seriously imagine Americans fleeing the US?

The UK only serves 2 purposes these days, they act as a warning to others, and to amuse us with their antics.



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 10:48 AM
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reply to post by Retseh
 


Positive racism is not unique to the UK.

Look at the US where it started.

Black only colleges.
Black only tv programmes.
Black only jobs.
Etc, etc.

Martin Luther King would turn in his grave if he could see it now!



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 10:56 AM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 


You make a fair point, we have it here too - but I can't remember ever seeing an ad that stated it, affirmative action tends to happen during the resume review process, in fact our EEOC regulations specifically prohibit it.

Cool avatar by the way, isn't that the guy from 2000 AD or some such. I seem to recall he was a rogue officer armed with an unfeasibly large revolver. Different comic maybe?



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 10:59 AM
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Points of clarity.

Black people were NOT mistreated in the Slave Days. Infact many who would have worked hard labor in factories were liberated and housed during their oversea travels. Given benefits by the Entrepreneurs and had a damn better quality of life than those in the Industrial Revolution back home. Black people (for some reason) think that because their ancestors in mass-numbers couldn't have been paid enough were exploited for it.

In the Segregation era's the Black people of the US could have had every right to fly back to their country of origin if they didn't like the way the country was run. Nowadays patriots of our own countries don't have that luxury, and as with this example, and jobs that SHOULD be for us are going to Immigrants or Ethnic minorities instead.



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 11:07 AM
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reply to post by Retseh
 


Major Eazy from Battle / Action comic, my favourite character as a young child.

fanboy.frothersunite.com...
fanboy.frothersunite.com...

When I first joined ATS I couldn't decide which name to use.

Whilst being Agnostic I think Freeborn John is one of the UK's greatest rebels ever and have enormous admiration for him.

en.wikipedia.org...

But Major Eazy was so cool, and uncompromising, lol.



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 11:17 AM
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reply to post by wayno
 


I think there is a larger issue that the black community doesn't get. You cannot lump all white people together in the whole slavery thing.

The people who owned slaves were mainly of British-Protestant ancestry. When the Irish, Jews, Poles, Italians, Germans and the other European groups started immigrating during the industrial revolution, they were treated just as poorly in the cities, and sometimes worse, than slaves and former slaves were.

In fact, in Chicago, even free blacks would move out of a neighborhood when the "dirty Irish Catholics" moved in.

I guess what I'm getting at is every ethnic group discriminates against others. Trying to compensate for past wrongs committed by a convoluted perpatrator is just impossible.

The solution was already proposed by Dr. King, "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 11:17 AM
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reply to post by ROBL240
 


There is more than an element of truth in what you say.

Look at the lives the people who worked in the pits and the mills had.
To some extent they were just as owned and exploited as slaves were.

However, they didn't get hunted down if they left the mines or mills and then given the lash when forcibly returned to their 'owners'.

Or get lynched simply for being a miner or mill worker.

There are also very important differences.

I would also like to point out that slavery had been a common trade in Africa for centuries long before Europeans ever got involved and when we did nearly every single black person sold into slavery was done so by another black person.

In addition, the UK was at the forefront of eliminating slavery and did so well before many other European countries.

When judging the actions of yesterday it is important to remember and bear in mind the morals of yesterday.

And I would like to point out that neither of the last two points should in anyway be seen as a justification for slavery.
Slavery was, and still is, an abhorent practice which has no place in the here and now, or the future.



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 11:19 AM
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Originally posted by Spazzy
talking about it makes them smile. no one's gonna care until we grab our guns.


Er, it's in the UK.

No law abiding citizen has a gun do they? Or they won't after the latest over-reaction in Parliament happens.



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 11:37 AM
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Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by Spazzy
talking about it makes them smile. no one's gonna care until we grab our guns.


Er, it's in the UK.

No law abiding citizen has a gun do they? Or they won't after the latest over-reaction in Parliament happens.


Err, what exactly has gun control got to do with this?



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 11:39 AM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 


It does not matter what you say and what evidence is provided. The wack jobs that want to punish modern whites for being an “evil white person” keeping the minorities down will spew their rancid racist bile regardless. They preached it so well that over time they now have self-loathing whites that parrot their same words. They care not that the past proves them wrong on many accounts. It matters not that no one alive today was involved in the slave markets or even owned slaves (not saying it does not occur today just the “evil whites” type).

It is sickening to see some who want to promote racism to fix past racism. They might as well cut their head off if they have a cold, it will give them the same result.

Raist



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 11:40 AM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 


Gun control keeps you from shooting the racist people who put out such ads?


Other than that I have no idea.

Raist



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