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Refuting The Lies Of Looters

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posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by MessOnTheFED!
 


If someone didnt use the roads, they wouldnt be forced to pay for them as they are now.

Much like people with no children are forced to pay for the unconstitutional public education system.

Answer me this: I have a 2 year old boy who will not be attending public school, when the time comes he will be going to a private school.

Why should I be forced to pay for public schools ?

Why should I be forced to pay for a police department whose main goal is raising revenue for the jurisdiction? I dont use the police.

One could basically say I am paying them to look for more reasons to take even more money from me in the form of citations.




posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 03:41 PM
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reply to post by mnemeth1
 


Ok. I understand what you are saying. But it dosent make any sence to me. Were all different i spose. Are you just trying to find a legitimate excuse not to pay your taxes? Well its not going to happen. Without taxes we would be another third world country. I deffinately wouldnt appreciate living in a third world country. Maybe you should check it out. No taxes all you have to worry about is machette weilding maniacs.

MessOnTheFED!



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 03:42 PM
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reply to post by brainwrek
 


"Answer me this: I have a 2 year old boy who will not be attending public school, when the time comes he will be going to a private school.

Why should I be forced to pay for public schools ? "


Because the nation is filled with criminal looters that feel you should be forced to pay for their kids education even if you don't have kids in the public school system yourself.

Not only do they demand you pay for their kids education, they demand you send their kids to an inferior dump of a school that will most likely brainwash your kid and teach him to be a looter like them.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 03:43 PM
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So you do realize that no government = no laws, right?

Under your scenario, what's to prevent me, good capitalist entrepreneur that I am, from forming a startup security company? Nothing that I can see.

Now, where security is concerned, nothing matters more than reputation. What's the best way to build rep? Prove to a company or city that their current security firm can't handle the job by eliminating them: literally kill the competition. What's to prevent me from doing that and taking over the local security contract?

As far as privatizing goes, I'm all for it, providing that the buyer pays full price for it, i.e., the real cost of building the infrastructure, plus maintenance cost over the years, and is contractually obligated to perform maintenance and accepts total liablity for any accidents, etc.

In case you've not noticed, privatization is nearly always a crony deal: the "buyer" never pays anything remotely near what the infrastructure costs or is worth, and results in lower quality and no maintenance.

The kind of people who would rise to the top in such a society as you describe would be the most ruthless and least compassionate, not the sort of folks I'd want in charge. But if it ever came to pass, you'd find me pretty ruthless myself, in self-defense.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by MessOnTheFED!
reply to post by mnemeth1
 


Ok. I understand what you are saying. But it dosent make any sence to me. Were all different i spose. Are you just trying to find a legitimate excuse not to pay your taxes? Well its not going to happen. Without taxes we would be another third world country. I deffinately wouldnt appreciate living in a third world country. Maybe you should check it out. No taxes all you have to worry about is machette weilding maniacs.

MessOnTheFED!


Without taxes we would be a more productive nation.

Please explain how looting someone at gun point makes them a more productive person.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 03:44 PM
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reply to post by brainwrek
 


I totally agree that the system is screwed up. Our schools need to be overhauled as well as out law enforcement, but the way you propose to go about it is not the best solution IMHO. As i stated earlier, system is a very decient one. We need to find a way to get rid of the greed that is clogging its arteries though.

MessOnTheFED!



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by mnemeth1
 


Do you live in China or North Korea or something? If the government would stop being so money hungry and the common person would suck it up and pay their fair share of taxes we would all live in a better place.

MessOnTheFED!



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 03:47 PM
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reply to post by MessOnTheFED!
 


Greed is what motivates people to work.

People always act in their own self-interest.

This is especially true of politicians, bankers, and other criminal looters.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by MessOnTheFED!
reply to post by mnemeth1
 


Do you live in China or North Korea or something? If the government would stop being so money hungry and the common person would suck it up and pay their fair share of taxes we would all live in a better place.

MessOnTheFED!


I'm advocating eliminating government, not more of it.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by mnemeth1

Because the nation is filled with criminal looters that feel you should be forced to pay for their kids education even if you don't have kids in the public school system yourself.

Not only do they demand you pay for their kids education, they demand you send their kids to an inferior dump of a school that will most likely brainwash your kid and teach him to be a looter like them.



Did you attend public school? I did. My parents couldn't afford private schooling - just an average middle class American family. There were many tax payers in my old home town who paid taxes (along with my parents) and had no kids, thus paying for my education.

Today I am an adult without kids - and i am happy to pay my taxes to fund my local schools BECAUSE years ago there were people who did the same for me. It's that simple.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by negativenihil

Originally posted by mnemeth1

Because the nation is filled with criminal looters that feel you should be forced to pay for their kids education even if you don't have kids in the public school system yourself.

Not only do they demand you pay for their kids education, they demand you send their kids to an inferior dump of a school that will most likely brainwash your kid and teach him to be a looter like them.



Did you attend public school? I did. My parents couldn't afford private schooling - just an average middle class American family. There were many tax payers in my old home town who paid taxes (along with my parents) and had no kids, thus paying for my education.

Today I am an adult without kids - and i am happy to pay my taxes to fund my local schools BECAUSE years ago there were people who did the same for me. It's that simple.


You're forgetting that your parents couldn't afford to send you to a private school because they were taxed to death.

If they weren't taxed, they could have afforded to send you to a private school.

Even today, everyone can attend a private school because many of them are run either by charities or churches that subsidize the cost.

Forcing people at gun point to pay for other people's kids is wrong.




[edit on 2-6-2010 by mnemeth1]



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 03:52 PM
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reply to post by mnemeth1
 


I hope you never get what you pray for. You somehow think that this place would work with no government? Im deffinately not advocating total government controll and not as much as they have now, but government is a good thing. We just need it to be overhauled and made new.

MessOnTheFED!



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by MessOnTheFED!
reply to post by mnemeth1
 


I hope you never get what you pray for. You somehow think that this place would work with no government? Im deffinately not advocating total government controll and not as much as they have now, but government is a good thing. We just need it to be overhauled and made new.

MessOnTheFED!


government is an evil institution of criminal looters that uses force against people that have caused harm to no one.

The only time force is appropriate is when someone has caused harm to another person or property.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by mnemeth1


You're forgetting that your parents couldn't afford to send you to a private school because they were taxed to death.

If they weren't taxed, they could have afforded to send you to a private school.

Even today, everyone can attend a private school because many of them are run either by charities or churches that subsidize the cost.

Forcing people at gun point to pay for other people's kids is wrong.


[edit on 2-6-2010 by mnemeth1]



Are you really that short sighted and greedy? Are you too good to help your neighbor in his or her time of need? Not everyone makes 100k+ a year if you havent figured that out yet. You should find a place on the map where people only care about themselves and move there. You would fit in perfectly.


MessOnTheFED!



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 03:59 PM
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Originally posted by MessOnTheFED!

Are you really that short sighted and greedy? Are you too good to help your neighbor in his or her time of need? Not everyone makes 100k+ a year if you havent figured that out yet. You should find a place on the map where people only care about themselves and move there. You would fit in perfectly.


MessOnTheFED!


I donate to charity.

I don't need a gun held to my head.

If my neighbor really needed my help to feed and clothe his kids, I'd help him out of my own pocket without the need for violence.

Just like private schools do today. If you are too poor to afford tuition, almost every private school in the country offers charity tuition assistance.

Greed is using government force against people that have harmed no one. That is greed. Greed is forcing other people to pay for your kids at the point of a gun.




[edit on 2-6-2010 by mnemeth1]



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by mnemeth1
 


Guess you missed the whole overhaul thing there. On second thought did you even read my post or did you just see that i replied to you and thought you would promote a little more anarchy? Thats what this is about basicaly right? Why dont you go visit a place that has no government and see how you make it. Lol youd probably be bagging up your money to give the government after that.


MessOnTheFED!



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by mnemeth1

Originally posted by negativenihil

Originally posted by mnemeth1

Because the nation is filled with criminal looters that feel you should be forced to pay for their kids education even if you don't have kids in the public school system yourself.

Not only do they demand you pay for their kids education, they demand you send their kids to an inferior dump of a school that will most likely brainwash your kid and teach him to be a looter like them.



Did you attend public school? I did. My parents couldn't afford private schooling - just an average middle class American family. There were many tax payers in my old home town who paid taxes (along with my parents) and had no kids, thus paying for my education.

Today I am an adult without kids - and i am happy to pay my taxes to fund my local schools BECAUSE years ago there were people who did the same for me. It's that simple.


You're forgetting that your parents couldn't afford to send you to a private school because they were taxed to death.

If they weren't taxed, they could have afforded to send you to a private school.

Even today, everyone can attend a private school because many of them are run either by charities or churches that subsidize the cost.

Forcing people at gun point to pay for other people's kids is wrong.




[edit on 2-6-2010 by mnemeth1]


First, i'd like to ask you to refrain from assuming anything about me or my life history. I've extended you this courtesy in the effort of a civil conversation between individuals who may not exactly agree. I expect the same from you.

Second, since you show such a keen interest in my history, no taxes were not the reason they couldn't afford to send me to private school. Had my parents been able to avoid paying any and all taxes, it still would not have provided enough money to fund a private education. Maybe where *you* grew up private education was cheap and plentiful, but that was not the case in my area.

You speak of brainwashing... yet you offer up examples of church and charity run private schools? do you not think THEY would have some sort of agenda? Most, if not all, of the private schools in the are i grew up were run by various religious organizations. If money were not an issue, the religious brainwashing and dogma would have been the central issue with my parents and private school.

I'm still curious if you had attended public school or not as a child.



[edit on 2-6-2010 by negativenihil]

[edit on 2-6-2010 by negativenihil]



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 04:02 PM
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reply to post by MessOnTheFED!
 


A time of need indicates an emergency situation, which as statistics show, the lower the taxes, the more private charitable contributions rise.

The lifespan of educating a child from K-12 is not a time of need, it is a lifestyle.

If someone cannot afford to fully finance the upbringing of their children, then they shouldnt have them.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 04:02 PM
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reply to post by mnemeth1
 


I dont ever really remember having a gun put to my head? Im willing to bet that you havent either. Everyone has to pay taxes get over it.

MessOnTheFED!



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by mnemeth1
 


This deserves to be dissected in its own post because it is full of the common arguments in favor of government violence directed against innocent people that have caused harm to no one.


Actually, it is a reply, by creating a thread, in avoidance of directly confronting someone.

Something highly questionable, whether your intent, and or message is worth listening to, is now in question, since creating a thread to basically thrash him.

So far, I'm not impressed, if I did that with a message of yours, where you avoided replying, you would be pissed off, and there is a reply in a thread where you never replied.

Your own thread too.

I guess I have more honor than to lower myself to something like that.

This post and reply is in no way an attack, but a calling into question, of your behavior.

For someone who sure likes to hate alleged Fascism, you sure practice it a lot.


Originally posted by mnemeth1
So, let us go through each claim:

-public roads
Roads would be better maintained and far safer if they were privately owned. Economist Walter Block explains just how many people die on our highways due to government running our roads here.


No, that's the private corporations, screwing over the public, inflating the prices due to it being "Government" as the customers, and sending the tax-payers a bloated bill.

Typical corporation scamming, via Government bureaucracy, and idiocy.

It happens all the time because Government could care less about our money.

And they could care less how it's spent, as long as it is spent, so they they don't have to return all the over-taxed money, but still, not a single gun in sight.

No one forced you to sign-up for the Social Security card you have in your wallet.

Unless your parents held a gun to your head, something I highly doubt.


Originally posted by mnemeth1
-public libraries
We don't need them. We have the internet. However, private libraries that are funded by private trust funds or charity could take their place. We also see large libraries in private colleges and schools.


We don't need libraries?

What a crock of crap.

We need libraries, because books are more valuable than a website, by far.

Even more valuable than ATS, because websites can be complete crap, the same as books.

At least with books it takes an effort to get books published.

And I would take libraries over the Internet any day.


Originally posted by mnemeth1
-public schools
They are consistently worse than private schools. They are the reason our inner-cities have 50% dropout rates. Public schools should be eliminated entirely. The demand for schooling can be met by the private sector easily. Charity can make up for those families that are too poor to pay full price tuition.


No, that's called lazy citizens, not instilling learning as a fundamental value, within children.

And not thoroughly making it something more important while the child is at home.

Instead, parents check out, and do not give a damn about what their kids learn.

Charity is not a viable option, as this gives far too much control over an education to a private corporation, like a non-profit, because anyone can open a non-profit.

Home Schooling is a far better option because most of them are Christian oriented.


Originally posted by mnemeth1
-police department
Private security firms can do a far better job at providing security services than public police, who don't give a flying crap about you as a customer. They are revenue generators for the State. If they acted like the Fire Dept. where they only came out when called it might be a different story, but they don't.


Which only leads to far worse forms of corruption, with organizations like Blackwater/Xe.

Something like a "Police Department" or Law Enforcement actually needs strict regulation, tighter than it is now, with the Internal Affairs Division watching closer.

A "private security firm" does nothing but collect a paycheck from a corporation.

We're already too far into "Corporate America", this would only lead to worse than we already have now, because it cannot be managed more effectively.

I believe in Medium Government, not "Little" or "Big Government"


Originally posted by mnemeth1
-fire department
There is no reason we couldn't have private fire services that people could subscribe to. If there were no public fire departments, private fire departments would crop up all over the place that people could either subscribe to for a recurring fee or they could pay for services rendered if they need it. We have private ambulance companies now, we could have private fire as well.


After training, funding, and maintaining it, it will basically be the same thing we have.

The difference is a higher potential for corruption, like "private Law Enforcement".

Because of the background checks alone for both Fire and Police.

Too many opportunities for arson, insurance fraud, and murder via fire by private citizens.


Originally posted by mnemeth1
-national parks or monuments
Are a massive waste of resources. National parks are used to secure resources for massive multi-national corporations. The government leases out land to private mega corporations who loot the land over a set contract period. There should be no national monuments to government. If someone wants to erect a private monument that's their business, but I should not be forced to pay for public idolatry.


This is about the only thing I agree with you on.


Originally posted by mnemeth1
-social security
Is tens of trillions in the hole and is run like a gigantic Ponzi scheme. If a private investment house tried to operate a scheme like socialist security, they would be arrested for fraud. See Bernie Madoff. I am more than capable of investing for my own retirement. I don't need a government gun in my face forcing me to put money into a Ponzi scheme.


Social Security was voluntary, at least when I was born, you had to sign-up for it.

Now it is mandatory, you get a S.S. number at birth, with your Birth Certificate.

Again, no gun was put in your face, your rhetoric is blatantly inflammatory.


Originally posted by mnemeth1
-medicare
Is also tens of trillions in the hole. This criminal Ponzi is the sole cause of the massive price inflation in medical care. Without medicare/medicaid, healthcare prices would be affordable to everyone.


The entire Healthcare Industry needs to be regulated, not "fixed" through reform.

Drop the prices of everything, through Governmental restrictions, to make it more affordable, so there is zero need for leveraged blackmail assistance through Medicare.

Otherwise, we're paying a middleman, for something we should get without them.


Originally posted by mnemeth1
-"You should not have a drivers license, passport, or social security card."
I'm not sure this has to do with anything. They are violations of my personal freedoms. I hate them. I don't want them. You can keep them. Unfortunately I am forced to have them at gun point if I want to travel or get a job.


There is no gun in your face, you can always walk, dig a tunnel out of the country, like the Illegal Immigrants, and not pay taxes, like a criminal.


Originally posted by mnemeth1
-"YOU SHOULD NOT BE ON THE INTERNET. "
Why not? I pay for it out of my own pocket. Most networks are privately owned.


Yep, monitored via the F.C.C., undercover Law Enforcement, or Government Agents.


Originally posted by mnemeth1
-"You should not own a firearm. "
Why not? I paid for that out of my own pocket as well. All the gun manufacturers are privately owned.


Yes, you paid for it, be responsible with it, and do not become a "Lone-Gunman/patsy."


Originally posted by mnemeth1
-"You should not own a business. "
Why not? If I work hard, I should be able to start a business that provides a profit for myself and a benefit to the society.


Go ahead and do it.


Originally posted by mnemeth1
-"You should not use electricity or any oil products."
Why not? I can buy those things in the private market with my own money. If government wasn't involved in the markets, the prices would be far cheaper than they are now.


Agreed, the Oil for Food Scam is a perfect example, bureaucracy robbing citizens.

The entire United Nations though, not just one country, not only America.

And we allow it, not through a gun at our heads, but through whining, complaining, and bitching about it, instead of actually entering politics, sitting on our duff's.


Originally posted by mnemeth1
-"You should not eat food grown by American farmers. "
Why not? I can buy food in the private market with my own money as well. If government wasn't involved in the markets, the prices would be cheaper for most agricultural goods as well.


Yes, again, agreed, but then again you can have a garden, in your back yard.


Originally posted by mnemeth1
-"Basically you should live in a powerless shack and grow your own food...while illegally squating on land you don't own and not paying taxes on."

How about I get to keep what I earn. This way I can buy a nice house, fill it full of stuff, and live a nice life. If I work really hard, I might get to live in a house as nice as a politicians or a central bankers.
[edit on 2-6-2010 by mnemeth1]


Pay unto Caesar, that which is Caesar's.



Nothing less, nothing more, pay a damn good Accountant, and you pay less.

Invictus : by William Ernest Henley

Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.

In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.

Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds and shall find me unafraid.

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.



We can master our own destiny, but we cannot master anyone else's, nor can we control anyone but ourselves.

[edit on 2-6-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



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