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Court: Officer's Speed Estimate Enough For Ticket

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posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 12:27 PM
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Court: Officer's Speed Estimate Enough For Ticket


www.wlwt.com

Ohio's highest court has ruled that a person may be convicted of speeding purely if it looked to a police officer that the motorist was going too fast.

The Ohio Supreme Court ruled Wednesday that an officer's visual estimation of speed is enough to support a conviction if the officer is trained, certified by a training academy, and experienced in watching for speeders.

A police officer’s unaided visual estimation of a vehicle’s speed is sufficient
evidence to support a conviction for speeding in violation of R.C.
4511.21(D) without independent verification of the vehicle’s spee
(visit the link for the full news article)


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posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 12:27 PM
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What the hell? Now a cop can guess your speed and your stuck with it? No radar, no other dohickey, just a cops eye. What kind of crap is this?


"A police officer’s unaided visual estimation of a vehicle’s speed is sufficient" Reallythis is just one of the dumbest things I have ever heard of.

Any of you cops on here care to answer how the hell you are visual trained to guess a persons speed limit???

www.wlwt.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 12:56 PM
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its all about money forget pedophiles forget murderurs if you speed or look like your speeding were gonna pull you over give you a ticket and fine you cuz we love the money. britains not much different m8 the greedy bastards



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 02:28 PM
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That's pretty unbelievable. What's to stop a cop from tacking on a few miles here and there? 15 mph over, nah let's round it up to 20 mph!!! In fact, they could just get rid of radar and laser altogether and just stop people, and in court they can just say whatever they want.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 02:32 PM
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Look on the bright side. Now the police in Ohio don't have to spend taxpayer dollars on radar equipment. The police can just guess at your speed and its good enough for the courts.

This country is going straight into the toilet.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 02:56 PM
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Not sure how they do it in Ohio, but here you pay a certain amount per each mph over the speed limit. So how can they determine the fine unless they are just going to pull a number out of their hat?



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 02:57 PM
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I call BS and scare tactics.... this will neva hold up if you take it to court.

Only thing they can get you for is reckless driving, and even that might not hold up in court if he just said it looked like you were driving a bit fast



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 02:58 PM
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reply to post by poedxsoldiervet
 


It's been like that for a long time. My father was a cop in the 80's and 90's. He explained to me how they can estimate and that it was admissable as evidence. They are certified every year or so. This isn't new just not common knowledge



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 03:04 PM
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it happened to me in Massachusetts over 8yrs ago.....cop "estimated" I was travelling 35 in a 30 zone.......so I fought it.......and of course I lost.

The reason I fought it was he marked on the ticket "Estimated-Radar" and he was not even using a radar gun.....and the corrupt court saw it his way.

how could it be "estimated - radar" if he was not using a gun ??


Total BS !


it's a money grab...pure and simple.



AG



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 03:07 PM
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They estimate your speed using telephone poles or other objects in a row. The specifics escape me since I never went to a training course. NO different from going to a training seminar. Certificates are backing the training in both cases. You would be surprised what laws we just don't know about.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 03:14 PM
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Something else I can use to beat a ticket in Ohio with. Last time it was their radar camera. I got the ticket in the mail and requested a court date. When I got there I told the Magistrate that I would plead guilty if he could tell me which car in the picture was mine. There were six cars in the frame of the picture. By the way, I don't speed.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 03:30 PM
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Nice heads up for while traveling through Ohio.

Here in PA only State Troopers are allowed to use radar, with township and municipal law enforcement officers being limited to electronic timings devices and whatnot.

As such Only state troopers are authorized to issue actual Speeding tickets, with local, municipal and township authorities having only "failure to obey posted traffic devices", reckless driving and whatnot at their disposal.

The difference being that only Speeding tickets add points to one's license and possible insurance increases as a result thereof.
... and the differences between the various fines are quite appreciable.

This ruling in Ohio seems absolute BS, imo.

It's one thing if the officer is travelling near the speed limit and you blow right by them, or if they're trailing a vehicle and can estimate speed based upon the time it takes them to pass a given predetermined point between the two (the one second per car length rule) ... otherwise, it leaves things Way too open to individual perspective, supposition and assumption.

down to 3-4 mph variance?

Not seeing it.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 03:51 PM
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Originally posted by bluedrake
I call BS and scare tactics.... this will neva hold up if you take it to court.

Only thing they can get you for is reckless driving, and even that might not hold up in court if he just said it looked like you were driving a bit fast


umm Ohio's Supreme court ruled that it was okay... some um what type of scare tatic is it?



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 03:51 PM
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reply to post by vor78
 


May very well be good enough for the Ohio court, but not near good enough for the smart motorist like me. Let them write me a ticket on sight alone. I would have a field day in court with that officer!



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 03:55 PM
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I used to work at a race track years ago working as a corner flag and in being around cars moving at a fairly fast clip you do get an idea of their speed.

I worked on a downhill turn in which towards the end of the day when the novice drivers raced, they would plow through this turn out of control with regularity !


As soon as they'd crested the hill apparently too fast, AND I began seeing the blue smoke coming off the tires I knew it was time to run away from the tire barrier in front of me !


SOOO, I hate to say that I somewhat understand what they are referring to categorically speaking in visual recognition of speed.

But, on the other hand , and from a legal perspective, the entire ticket system is not about your safety but is a scam , under the guise of the legal system of simply separating you from your money.

Taking a step back, the system of Government and it's subsequent laws were created and are established to protect and maintain individual rights of which the Courts are part and representative of.

This is the basis of any court's legal standing.

As a result, all traffic tickets are Invalid. If a Plaintiff or court has no legal standing against an individual, then the court has no subject matter jurisdiction.

1.)In order for any court to have a legal standing against you, it requires a valid complaint which represents a cause of action.

Which in this case would be the ticket.
THis is why if anything written on the complaint or ticket isn't correct, date, names , times, etc. THen the ticket will be thrown out in court.

2. A ticket/Complaint is NOT a cause of action. - This is what they (The Courts, and/or Prosecutors) DON'T want you to know.

Governments are established to "protect and maintain individual rights" of which the Courts are part and representative of.

3. What are the court's legal jurisdiction ? To protect and maintain individual rights.

4. How to Impeach a witness - basically a means of discrediting a witness ie, the LEO.

a.) A ticket as being written is written testimony which you legally have a right to question.
b.) An LEO is required to file a valid cause of action, of which is necessary to support a standing, necessary for the court to have jurisdiction.
1. If you inquire as to the legal requirements of a valid cause of action you can usually reveal that the witness doesn't know what he is talking about. And you have discredited your only witness of the Plaintiff and the Prosecution.

Which would be your best defense in a case such as this.



[edit on 2-6-2010 by nh_ee]



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 05:21 PM
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Originally posted by nh_ee
1. If you inquire as to the legal requirements of a valid cause of action you can usually reveal that the witness doesn't know what he is talking about. And you have discredited your only witness of the Plaintiff and the Prosecution.


Care to tell us what the legal requirements of a valid cause of action are?



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 05:27 PM
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If I was a lawyer and had a client accused of speeding in court I would come in with a baseball and toss it really fast to a clerk and ask the officer to ascertain how fast the ball was traveling. If he can't tell with any degree of certainty, how can he tell how fast my client's car was traveling?



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 05:39 PM
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Oh wow. So the cops get to where they are being pushed to increase revenue for their localities. All they have to do is claim that someone is speeding and it is a sure fine and conviction. And then the person has to pay the fines, court costs, and higher insurance as well. Yeah, America is land of the free alright.

It may be unwise to move to Ohio.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 06:15 PM
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Aha finally hard evidence!

Now we have absolute proof that the police have nothing to do with Justice, but instead are merely tax collectors for the government!

The fact they do not care about EVIDENCE anymore, PROVES that it's all about $$$.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 06:41 PM
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It's been this way for a long time where I live. I don't agree with it fully, but if someone is going 50 in a 25 I want them to get a ticket. If someone is not speeding in a reckless manner, than I don't believe they should be ticketed for speeding anyway.

I live on a blind corner and there are accidents quite frequently, usually due to people speeding and rear ending cars that have just pulled onto the highway. Speed limits make sense sometimes, 10 mph is a lot when you have to slam on the brakes. It really isn't that hard to estimate when someone is going 10 mph over the speed limit, whether they pace you or use stationary objects like telephone poles.

I guess if it were up to me people would only be ticketed for going to fast for conditions or something along those lines unless they were REALLY speeding dangerously. I will agree that 100% accuracy is impossible based on observation alone, and that maybe there should be brackets or something, 5-10 over, 10-15, 20.




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