Regime Change: Israel... A Must.......

reply to post by Yissachar1


Pure nonsense.

How come you are not concerned about regime change in Iran, Libya, Cuba, Egypt, North Korea, etc.?

How come mass atrocities are committed every day around the world, but the UN is focused on Israel?

You saw the "Peace Activists" attacking with knives, flash bangs, etc., right? Not so peaceful I say.

Where was the World condemnation when Egypt closed the Gaza crossing? Why no mass protests from the Arab world?

Pure hypocrisy.

When the Jews are weak, they are exterminated. When the Jews are strong, they are condemned.

Israel lives in the most dangerous neighborhood on the planet.

America and Europe can judge all they want sitting in safe cities and secure borders.

You may not like everything that Israel does, but you probably do not understand the dynamics in the Middle East.

Until you focus your microscope on the Arab governments . . . you know, the dictatorships, the repressive regimes, the anti-women hardliners, the torturers, etc., perhaps you should look at Israel a little less critically.

reply to post by Yissachar1


Once again we have citizens making statements of protests for which their basis is not that of those countries that are involved.

If this event is bigger than the opinion to which you are entitled, it would be wise to let events unfold before forming opinions.

The great sadness is both sides have acted stupidly and horrendously and both sides have tried again and again to do the same thing and expected different results. - that alone is insanity.

reply to post by rjleit


I would like to include America and Britain in your lttle list...

reply to post by glitchinmymatrix

Once again we have citizens making statements of protests for which their basis is not that of those countries that are involved. If this event is bigger than the opinion to which you are entitled, it would be wise to let events unfold before forming opinions.

EX IDF AND British Army btw..... Know a bit more than you...

Though I dont defend much less condone Israels actions, one has to wonder? There are so many ppl on this thread, quick to point the finger at any countries actions, and yet not be present at the time of any incursions.
Im not suggesting, shoot first then ask questions, Im suggesting, just how is it possible that our alleged facts of the situation are conclusive? If we weren't there, we are only obtaining information from a friend, or a media broadcast ( which we all know the lies that spew from the mouths of those snakes), just how is it possible that the ATS people on this thread know without a reasonable doubt, that everything we are being spoon fed is the truth? Just because someone says its the truth doesnt mean it truly is.
But there lies another problem?! How do we obtain factual information that would allow us as individuals to make a conclusive decision on right or wrong?
If the readers of this thread weren't present, how do they know fact from fiction?
Once again, proving without a reasonable doubt, that nothing is ever what it seems, much less reported to be~

reply to post by Yissachar1

EX IDF AND British Army btw..... Know a bit more than you...
prove it please~

[edit on 2-6-2010 by SurefireII]

[edit on 2-6-2010 by SurefireII]

It's ironic, isn't it? The OP used to take flak for supporting Israel. Now he's taking flak for attacking Israel. And is even being called "uneducated" or "inexperienced" or "naive" in Middle East politics by people who clearly don't know what they're talking about. I'm sure that must be frustrating!

Anyway just thought I'd give my support... if you really feel like you need to make amends even after acknowledging the degree of propaganda you were subjected to, well, there's plenty of opportunity in the current climate! Tensions have rarely been tighter, everyone could use a bit of common sense of your kind.

reply to post by edtheduck


That's a great story ETD. There is a very big difference between Israel foreign policy and everyday people of Jewish faith. This fact is not lost on many people at this forum who are speaking out against Israel in the latest Flotilla incident.

There is a big difference between speaking out against a regime and speaking out against everyday people (like you & me) or specifically speaking out against a faith. A BIG difference!

This is why it offends and angers me (and many others) when propagandist try to paint any dissenting voice as one of anti-semetism or that of a 'hater'. The irony is that Palestinians are also semites, so what is it that the propagandists are really saying or trying to achieve?

Do they really believe that condemnation of a government translates into hatred of a faith, of a people or language? Maybe in some cases, but for the better part of them, I doubt it.

What they really want is for people to recoil from the idea of being labeled an ugly racist. They want to link racism with descent in the minds of people in the hopes that those who question the actions of a government will recoil and go away. They want to link descent for a government with the Nazi persecution and victimization of the Jews.

They are not defending Judaism because it is not Judaism that is being questioned. They are protecting an ideology. Zionism. Plain and simple.

Unfortunately, I believe it is also the case that many Jews (and Christians) that come to the forum to debate in favor of the Israeli governments actions have also had their opinions swayed and manipulated by the Zionist agenda to perceive the dissenting voices as an attack on the Jewish people.

The Zionists are playing both sides off against one another. People need to wake up to this. We are all pawns in a game. People fight people in wars for the sake of governments and their agendas. If it wasn't for governments, we wouldn't go to war because the truth is that we all have more in common than the governments would like us to believe. This is something they don't want us to realize.

The only way power remains in the hands of so few is through the old adage "Divide and Conquer". It's time everyone woke up!

IRM

[edit on 2/6/10 by InfaRedMan]

Originally posted by rjleit
reply to post by Yissachar1

 

Pure nonsense.

How come you are not concerned about regime change in Iran, Libya, Cuba, Egypt, North Korea, etc.?

How come mass atrocities are committed every day around the world, but the UN is focused on Israel?

Nice try, but the OP is in response to the IDF massacre. Last time I checked they reported to the Israeli government ...

You saw the "Peace Activists" attacking with knives, flash bangs, etc., right? Not so peaceful I say.

This straw man is starting to smell really bad. Here are facts: the Turkish vessel was attacked in International Waters by the IDF. The passengers had every right to defend themselves by any means necessary. Their ship was boarded illegally by pirates.

Let me come to your house unannounced and let me rappel onto your living room ...

When the Jews are weak, they are exterminated. When the Jews are strong, they are condemned.

It would be nice if they played fair and obeyed International Law. Oh, wait ... "the chosen ones."

Pure hypocrisy.

Yep, you got that right.

Double post...


[edit on 2/6/10 by InfaRedMan]

reply to post by SurefireII


Your existential questions about the definition of "reality" are very valuable for a Philosophy 101 class.

Innocent people were murdered by the IDF. (I assume there was no mass suicide. But I'm sure you would argue that possibility as well.)

Real enough for you?

reply to post by Yissachar1


In the past we have crossed words many times, and I have not logged onto ATS in about a month, but when I saw your thread, I HAD to respond.

I can only hope that more True Torah loving and committed socially conscious Jews around the world can come to the same realization as you.

I completely understand wanting to stand up against blatant Jewish racism, and I fully support you when attacked merely because of your race, but Israel is MAKING the world hate Jews and it is a sad situation.

Star and Flag and I wish that I could give you a bajillion more.

Cheers mate.

[edit on 6/2/2010 by Josephus23]

reply to post by Josephus23


Jews are a "race"? You lost me right there ...

reply to post by AllIsOne


You are quite correct, being Jewish is a religion and not a race.

Thank you for correcting my mistake.

Maybe a better word would have been "jewophobia"

reply to post by Josephus23


Thank you for correcting yourself. I got worried that I mislabeled my Jewish African-American father his entire life ...

I think what you just did shows great courage and honesty on your part.

You just did what most people won't ever do because they are too cowardly to say they were ever wrong.

So once again

It's not just zionists that must rethink their stance, EVERYONE in the world who supports a regime that commit war crimes and oppression against anyone should rethink their position.

That includes canadians too, americans too, europeans too, africans too, asians too, arabs too... EVERYONE.

It's because we normal decent folks put up with the government BS and that we are a bunch of cowards that the world is in the state it is now.

CAN WE PLEASE STOP LYING TO OURSELVES, FIND OUR BALLS AND KICK THE SCUM OUT?

reply to post by Yissachar1

First a salute from one ex-soldier to another. You've earned my respect right there regardless of the uniform you wore.

Keep digging and doing your homework and I promise you this won't be your last epiphany. Follow the truth where it leads and remember history damns us all. Accepting the truth about ones self or ones people takes more grit than most of us have.

As to the commando boarding of the boat, at first flush I thought that it was a horribly botched operation from either perspective. But, on second thought I saw that everyone walked away with what they came to the party to get.

The flotilla got their headlines and Israel got to provoke and yes I do believe it was a direct provocation.

Back in January I read a piece in the Debka files about how Iran through Hizbullah has attack plans to hit Israel from three directions should Israel attack Iran. The plan it to take cities near the Lebanon border hostage to tie down the IDF as Syrian troops move missles to positions near the Golan Heights.

I learned long ago Debka is a mouthpiece for Mossad so I took the article with some salt. Since the time of the article some things have happened to cause me to believe what they said. Tactically it's a good plan so long as they have the troops trained the way they need to be.

From Israel's perspective sooner is better than later to deal with this. The longer they wait the worse the attack will be.

So, from the PR angle which is the smarter thing to do. Take it on the nose publicly for shooting a few peaceniks on a supply boat to get Hizbullah to launch an attack on Israel that Israel is prepared for. Or, should Israel begin a unilateral bombing campaign on Southern Lebanon followed up with ground war that Israel is prepared for? Or, lastly, should Israel be cool, sit patiently and wait until Hizbullah is ready to make their move and risk a bad surprise?

For my money the least smelly option is to do exactly what they did and hope Hizbullah takes the bait and over reacts. Think about it. If you were making plans for war wouldn't you want the operation to happen on your schedule? Plus, if Hizbullah jumps in now imagine how soon the peaceniks will disappear from the nightly news.

I wouldn't go so far as to call the planning an act of genius but it would be a damned smart thing to do.

Does any of the above mean that I support Israel in this. No, not at all. And to the peaceniks I'd say that if you go out looking for a fight someone will help you find it but hell, you already knew that.

If the loons on both sides keep it up the earth will end up with a piece of glass you can see from space. Maybe several if you look at worst case.

In the end I guess I can say that I'm no friend of Israel and I can blast them for a lot of what they do but not this time. I believe there is method to the madness on both sides and, in this case, some poor melodrama on both sides. Two acts of stupidity cancel each other out.

Considering how the Israelis and Palestinians must live day to day I marvel that every last one of them isn't suffering from some sort of psychosis and quite possibly they are. Can you imagine what it will look like the day both sides have had all they can stand of the other. With all that pent up hatred, rage and insanity. Egad what a mess.

Originally posted by William Marshal
reply to post by warequalsmurder

 

If what you want was to come to pass. We would need to gather every so often in rememberance of Israel.

you all are playing right into the hands of the Isalamic radicals.

That's ok William Marshal. You and your Zionist buddies can try and take, take, take, and never give an inch.

Your kind are scheduled for extinction because you can't change your evil ways.

And to the peaceniks I'd say that if you go out looking for a fight someone will help you find it but hell, you already knew that.

If the loons on both sides keep it up the earth will end up with a piece of glass you can see from space. Maybe several if you look at worst case.

reply to post by CmdrZero


So, how would you fight an opressor? The "peaceniks" have shown the world to what length Israel will go to defend an illegal blockade. They've been exposed to the core, thanks to the "peaceniks".