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12 confirmed murdered and 25 injured after Gunman runs amok in Whitehaven, Egremont and Seascale, Cu

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posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 07:14 PM
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What can we do about this problem? nothing...and thats what makes me really angry...our impotency...




posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 07:15 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


Interesting that you should link to that video. I have seen it before, and it's a piece so out-of-context that it'd make Fox News blush.

Those people were not protesting their right to bear arms. The Countryside Alliance was protesting the banning of hunting foxes with dogs. Plain and simple. I know several people, including some family that went on that march and it had absolutely nothing to do with wanting to walk around packing heat.

So let's leave that misinformation firmly to the side, where it belongs. Thanks.

Some statistics from the Guardian, via the Home Office website:


Home Office figures show that there are 22,476 licensed shotguns in Cumbria with 9,868 shotgun certificates in force on 31 March this year. In the last year 370 new certificates were granted and only two applications refused by the Cumbria police.


Cumbria has a population of just under 500,000 people



[edit on 2-6-2010 by CRB86]



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 07:21 PM
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Originally posted by CRB86

Interesting that you should link to that video. I have seen it before, and it's a piece so of out-of-context that it'd make Fox News blush.
.....


Not really... and yes i watched and listened to what people had to say...and many were talking about the rights which are being taken away, including the right to bear arms... Some even specified they were angry because politicians in the UK claimed crimes with firearms would decrease with the ban, when in fact they have increased...

BTW, I did include in my statement that the march was also for the right of the British to hunt....but it was also for their right to own firearms... i dind't say anything about "packing heat".... I know some people faint at the mention of a firearm, but perhaps it is time to grow out of that childish mentality.


[edit on 2-6-2010 by ElectricUniverse]



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 07:22 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


I have not been anti-US in this thread.
What you do in your country is up to you.
As it should be.

I don't care if anyone came from UK, USA, anywhere, this thread WAS about BREAKING NEWS surrounding the shootings in Cumbria, not the pro's or con's of gun control anywhere.

As I have repeatedly stated, I have absolutely no problem with discussing gun control.
But just not in this thread.

I really can not understand what people find so hard about that.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 07:24 PM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


typical american , give everyone guns!! yeah thats why the UK has like 3 shootings in the last 14 years , how many has US of A had in the last 14 years??? remind me please? oh yeah thats right too many to count...nothing wrong with gun toting america at all right...lol



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 07:26 PM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 


See the UK member's post above me...

So are you going to yell, and tell those British members that "they are just trying to show off whose penis is bigger"?....



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 07:32 PM
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Originally posted by Mindsmog

typical american , give everyone guns!! yeah thats why the UK has like 3 shootings in the last 14 years , how many has US of A had in the last 14 years??? remind me please? oh yeah thats right too many to count...nothing wrong with gun toting america at all right...lol


It has been explained already, several times, with FACTS that most crimes in the U.S. occur in states where there is either gun bans, or heavy restrictions on firearms just like in the U.K...

It has also been shown that crimes in the U.K. surpases crimes of the U.S.

There are 2034 crimes per 100.000 people in the U.K. meanwhile in the U.S. there are 466 crimes per 100,000 people...and that comes from British sources...

It is also another known FACT that since the gun ban in the U.K. GUN crimes have INCREASED.... but please keep telling us about facts....

[edit on 2-6-2010 by ElectricUniverse]



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 07:43 PM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
It has been explained already, several times, with FACTS that most crimes in the U.S. occur in states where there is either gun bans, or heavy restrictions on firearms just like in the U.K...

It has also been shown that crimes in the U.K. surpases crimes of the U.S.

There are 2034 crimes per 100.000 people in the U.K. meanwhile in the U.S. there are 466 crimes per 100,000 people...and that comes from British sources...

It is also another known FACT that since the gun ban in the U.K. GUN crimes have INCREASED.... but please keep telling us about facts....

[edit on 2-6-2010 by ElectricUniverse]


Listen,
Firstly it isn't as simple as comparing number of crimes per 100,000 in 2 different countries, there are demographic, geographic, and a whole host of other factors to consider.

Secondly, even if there are less crimes in one country than another it doesn't immediately mean it's down to guns or the lack of them.

Thirdly, there are around 0.1 illegal gun deaths in the UK per 100,000 people. By comparison in major US cities, which replicates the crowded demographics of the Uk, the gun deaths are 12.1 per 100,000 - much worse - FACT. Even in small cities it's 6.1 per 100,000.

Fourth, you need to compare gun crimes. In the Uk it's usually gang related, you don't often get gun robberies, other than armed robberies in banks, etc. You're not likely to be mugged by a gun toting crack addict or burgled by armed robbers.

Fifth, the British in the video were not fighting for their rights to bear arms or hunt in the way that you mean - it was a load of toffs fighting for their right to hunt foxes with dogs.

There is nothing to hunt with rifles in the UK unless you want to go and shoot farmer giles cows and sheep.

Please keep your idiotic comments to yourself, you don't know anything about the UK, the British, or much else by the evidence of your ramblings.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 07:49 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


Show me my quote where I said it was only American members who were trying to change this into a 'who has got the bigget penis' competition.

It's not about anti-US or pro-UK policy.

My annoyance was that the whole subject should have been conducted in another thread, possibly even another forum, not that the discussion shouldn't take place.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 07:51 PM
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I Think this is very tragic and feel for the people of whitehaven,
ive spent a few mths working there when i was younger.
That said Whitehaven was the only port invaded by the usa wayback ;


[edit on 6/2/2010 by dashar]



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 07:54 PM
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Back to the shooting itself...................

Some more speculation about the motive, and descriptions of the event itself.

www.theaustralian.com.au...


Many of Bird's victims were shot in the face, in several cases after he had pulled up his car and beckoned people over to him.

The victims included an elderly woman who was walking home with her morning shopping, a cyclist, and a farmer who was shot “at point blank range” while trimming hedges by the side of the road.

British newspapers reported that Bird, who was divorced with two adult sons and recently became a grandfather, began his spree by shooting his twin brother David and a local solicitor, Kevin Commons.

Bird's 90-year-old mother Mary is seriously ill and a row over her will was being touted as the potential trigger for the rampage by the taxi driver, who was described as a quiet and popular man.

Bird was also believed to have argued with fellow taxi drivers on Tuesday night before arriving the next morning at the taxi rank in Duke Street, the main street of the sleepy seaside town of Whitehaven, armed with a shotgun and a .22 rifle.


So despite the varying reports on the number dead, it does appear that it was indeed 12 killed, three more in critical condition, with at least 25 wounded.

An interview with a victim can be seen here;

news.bbc.co.uk...

Edit to add, it is also apparently confirmed that his mother was NOT one of the victims.



[edit on 2-6-2010 by Illusionsaregrander]



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 08:19 PM
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I have family close. This is a saddening event. Has the motive been found?
Good energy that way...



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 08:21 PM
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reply to post by Miraj
 


I fully understand what your saying but when a citizen in the UK
applies for a shotgun licence they have a major background
check done,the tiniest of offences committed and its a nope
which is stupid.

as for the firearm licence well you may as well not bother
applying as its way more of a security check.you almost
have to be a mason its that tight.

we in the UK do not have the rite to bear arms.
i would love the rite to bear arms but its not going to happen.

would this be a wise move?who knows. the way i see it is
even if you own a licenced gun and your put in a situation
that is dangerous it would do more harm than good for you to
shoot the person giving you grief.

where in say the USA its a your rite.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 08:24 PM
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This breaks my heart.

RIP.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 08:47 PM
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The topic of this thread is the senseless murder of some good people in Britain; it is not about gun laws and speculation on if changes in gun laws would have prevented it.

This is not the time nor the place to discuss it; please remain on topic and respectful of the pain that our friends in Britain are experiencing now.

Thank you

gallopinghordes
ATS member and mod



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 09:30 PM
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My heart breaks for the victims and their families, and anyone else affected by this tragedy (especially those ATS members).

Debating over who should/shouldn't have guns at times like these is stupid, in my opinion. Not only has a tragedy just occurred where respect should be payed toward the victims and their families, but the legality of guns and who should own them would probably not have prevented something like this from happening in the first place. If someone wants to go and kill people with a gun, what the law says will not matter to them. Could a more armed populace have prevented an event like this from going on as long as it did? Maybe, but I still do not see the point in debating something like that at a time like this.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 09:30 PM
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Notes:

news.sky.com...< br />
Checking out the above link, I couldn't help but notice the banner at the top is for a new tv show called "Going Postal," which is a slang term here in the US for going on a shooting rampage(after a slew of mass shootings in the 80s by postal workers).  Hmmm....

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forum.prisonplanet.com...
A caller in to the Ian Collins Talk-Sport show, a man I think from Seascale, who knew the taxi-driver, just 5-minutes ago on the show claimed Mr Bird, before the shootings started, turned up at a local hospital and requested to be seen or taken in, stating that he was 'mentally ill'. He was refused.

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Comment from another post:
"I heard on radio 4 this afternoon on the drive home from work that a local man saw him in his Taxi and he had a snipers rifle-The chap said it looked massive like ones used to kill people a mile away in a war(50 cal)"

Also, on the BBC nightly news, one witness described the rifle as a "James Bond-type weapon."  Others have reported that the scope looked very large.  It doesn't sound like a little .22 cal pea shooter.

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The slandering of the dead suspect has begun:

www.timesonline.co.uk...
A close relative of Linda Mills, Bird’s former partner, described Bird to North News as a troubled man who had tried to put pressure on his wife to have an abortion, and would charge members of his own family for rides in his taxi.

“I never really thought much of him as a man. He didn’t have much character to him. He was quiet and moody. He was short anyway but in later life he got fat and lost his hair. I don’t think he had much in the way of self-esteem."



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 10:29 PM
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My condolences and prayers go out to those affected.

I am from Wyoming, USA; a state with more horses than people and more guns than horses. Our friends across the pond voted and by choice abolished private ownership of guns. While I disagree with your decision I full heartedly believe it is your choice to make. This incident was a tragedy with causes deep rooted in the ills of society.

May the souls of the slain be delivered and their familes find peace.

Amen

[edit on 2-6-2010 by Windycity]



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 10:36 PM
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reply to post by starviego
 



forum.prisonplanet.com...
A caller in to the Ian Collins Talk-Sport show, a man I think from Seascale, who knew the taxi-driver, just 5-minutes ago on the show claimed Mr Bird, before the shootings started, turned up at a local hospital and requested to be seen or taken in, stating that he was 'mentally ill'. He was refused.



I don't have a hard time believing this at all.


The sad thing is, if the above statement is true this tragedy could've been prevented if they hadn't turned him away.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 10:57 PM
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Peace and love to all affected by this tragedy in the UK.

This kind of senseless slaughtering leaves me cold and speechless



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