It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Israel rejects calls for independent probe

page: 4
26
<< 1  2  3    5 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 05:37 PM
link   
reply to post by dreamwalker74
 


Islamists and sharia law?
And..........
Whats your point?
Isnt that the same beliefs that were used by christians?
Do you remember the crusades or even the spanish inquisition?
Muslims are only the "next big thing" to come along and preach this.

But if you total everythign up,they havent killed nearly as many as the crusading christians did.

And yet,the world is still here.
Were not all christians and those who are not,are still alive.

Extremists are a minority,theres a large vocal community,but thats alll they are is talk.

There are people being wiped out as we speak by the thousands in Darfur.
Why dont we save them?
Why arent there ships bringing aid to those people?
Why isnt there all this anger about what those poor people are going through?
But theres always poor poor Israel.
Its a distraction from other world events.
And NO,im not a "anti-semite",im a athiest

So i could really care less if they are jews or otherwise.
They are all just people to me.

There are currently more people in needhelp and attention right now,who arent getting it.




posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 05:43 PM
link   
Let me see...They run a known blockade without identifying their cargo. Then when the Israelis react and come on board they take out clubs and start throwing guys overboard. The Israelis react take control of the ship, and realize it was filled with medical supplies and food. Israelis say that ther is great need in Gaza, so start giving the medicine etc to the folks in need. Hamas (true to vengeful Islamic thinking) will not accept any of the humanitarian cargo, until all is released and all people are released. Meanwhile people are suffering. OK? I think I understand it is Islamic thinking process at it's very best. I will kill people I claim you want to kill so you will look like a killer. I will once again et vengeance by killing my own people who I supposedly am fighting for so they can get help. I will spite my self, kill my own, just so I can call you a killer and are keeping people who clubbed guys captive for awhile?? Sounds like Muslim logic...



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 06:13 PM
link   
reply to post by Black_Fox
 


The difference being hundreds of years ago the christians stopped the crusedes. after the Davinci trials, the catholic church started to believe that their views could in-fact be wrong and has started to adjusting and started to accept science ever since to try to save themselves. The Muslims have done no such thing, Keeping with not only the old religion, but the same ideals of hereticy that the original crusaders dealt with hundredes of years ago. We are talking the people of today, not the people hudreds of years ago. We are talking about a current threat not a 300 year old one that has evolved, lets stick to the modern day problems. Let's actually focus on the ideals that are likely to kill you now not 300 years ago. Seriously is the best debate over the attempmt by fundemental mulslims, the fact that christians tried to do it hundreds of years ago? This is a current day, serious threat that should not be ignored.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 06:13 PM
link   
reply to post by Black_Fox
 


The difference being hundreds of years ago the christians stopped the crusedes. after the Davinci trials, the catholic church started to believe that their views could in-fact be wrong and has started to adjusting and started to accept science ever since to try to save themselves. The Muslims have done no such thing, Keeping with not only the old religion, but the same ideals of hereticy that the original crusaders dealt with hundredes of years ago. We are talking the people of today, not the people hudreds of years ago. We are talking about a current threat not a 300 year old one that has evolved, lets stick to the modern day problems. Let's actually focus on the ideals that are likely to kill you now not 300 years ago. Seriously is the best debate over the attempmt by fundemental mulslims, the fact that christians tried to do it hundreds of years ago? This is a current day, serious threat that should not be ignored.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 06:16 PM
link   

Originally posted by princeofpeace
Let me see...They run a known blockade without identifying their cargo. Then when the Israelis react and come on board they take out clubs and start throwing guys overboard. The Israelis react take control of the ship, and realize it was filled with medical supplies and food. Israelis say that ther is great need in Gaza, so start giving the medicine etc to the folks in need. Hamas (true to vengeful Islamic thinking) will not accept any of the humanitarian cargo, until all is released and all people are released. Meanwhile people are suffering. OK? I think I understand it is Islamic thinking process at it's very best. I will kill people I claim you want to kill so you will look like a killer. I will once again et vengeance by killing my own people who I supposedly am fighting for so they can get help. I will spite my self, kill my own, just so I can call you a killer and are keeping people who clubbed guys captive for awhile?? Sounds like Muslim logic...



What part of "in international waters" didn't you get? The boat did NOT cross their blockade at the point when they were boarded. They were 75+ nm into international waters. And if im not mistaken, I read that they were anchored up for the night, waiting for day light. We've been over the "oh poor IDF soldiers were hit with clubs" thing a million times. The people on board the boats had a right to defend themselves. If an Israeli ship was in international waters and they were boarded by Turkish Special Forces, I GUARANTEE you would say "oh the Israelis had a right to defend themselves".

PS- The boats have been in Haifa for how long now? Where is the evidence of weapons? Oh thats right... they had to prevent 'cement' from being brought into Gaza.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 06:23 PM
link   

Originally posted by dreamwalker74
reply to post by Black_Fox
 


The difference being hundreds of years ago the christians stopped the crusedes. after the Davinci trials, the catholic church started to believe that their views could in-fact be wrong and has started to adjusting and started to accept science ever since to try to save themselves. The Muslims have done no such thing, Keeping with not only the old religion, but the same ideals of hereticy that the original crusaders dealt with hundredes of years ago. We are talking the people of today, not the people hudreds of years ago. We are talking about a current threat not a 300 year old one that has evolved, lets stick to the modern day problems. Let's actually focus on the ideals that are likely to kill you now not 300 years ago. Seriously is the best debate over the attempmt by fundemental mulslims, the fact that christians tried to do it hundreds of years ago? This is a current day, serious threat that should not be ignored.


I consider the belief that "Jews are the chosen people of god" and "god gave us this land" as being a little fundamental myself. And that's not a belief of hundreds of years ago, thats what many ultra-orthodox Jews in Israel believe today. Just watch the 2nd video I posted on page 4.

And as a personal note, I don't believe this issue should have anything to do with Jew's or Muslim's. Its a "right" and "wrong" issue. It is wrong to embargo Gaza and starve out the inhabitants in hopes of gaining more territory. Its wrong to bulldoze their homes, and evict them on no legal grounds. Its wrong to constantly push your borders out and build illegal settlements. Its wrong to shout from the hilltops how Iran shouldn't have nuclear weapons, and yet thumb your nose at the U.N and the IAEA about your very own nuclear arsenal. These are ISRAELI issues.. not Jew or Muslim issues. So the entire notion of anti-semitic is ridiculous at best.

It is also wrong for Hamas to fire rockets into Israel. It is wrong for Hamas to use the Palestinian people in the way they are. But the ones who suffer are the innocent Isralies and the innocent Palestinians.

[edit on 2-6-2010 by DerekJR321]



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 06:27 PM
link   
Oh dear .... zionists caught lying again.

UK msm Sky News (nb zionist supporters) have just revealed video evidence that shows the IDF were fully aware of the mood of those onboard the ship BEFORE they boarded it, and knew there would be trouble.

This is complete opposite to what nutcase zionist liars have been saying up to now.

Nothing those murdering bstards say is ever true


Jews please wake up and get rid of these psychos.


i am unable to capture the vid, sorry. It shows those on board the ship pelting a small idf craft which comes alongside. The throw all sorts of things at the idf and it is quite clear they are not welcome. This is before the storm troopers land on deck from the chopper.

[edit on 2-6-2010 by bigyin]



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 06:48 PM
link   

Originally posted by Vitchilo


Right from the horse's mouth.

This is just one more proof the Israeli leadership is full of crooks and war criminals.

Lieberman is under investigation by police because of corruption, Olmert too, and Netanyahu and Ehud Barak are doing that kind of thing then refusing an INDEPENDENT PROBE...

Of course they are afraid of the truth coming out, BUT GUESS WHAT NETANYAHU, IT ALREADY CAME OUT and even if all the zionists shills on the internet post their lies 24/7 IT WON'T WORK.

www.jpost.com
(visit the link for the full news article)


HAHAHAHAHA
This is so god damn funny:

The accused is investigating the crimes committed by itself, how can you be guilty Israel, when you are investigating your own damn crimes.

OHHHHHHHH GOSH that is a funny one, that is the best one they come up with.

The thing is, they gonna keep repeating this, and the other stories will slowly vanish from the media, and in the end, US/Israel wins.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 07:53 PM
link   
And nopw that Gazans dont want the aid????

I guess the Kayatusha rockets they ordered were on backorder, so they just refused the whole shipment. ("C4! Where is the C4?!? What am I supposed to use to detonate myself with, vinegar and baking soda? Send the whole thing back!!")



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 08:04 PM
link   
So Middle Eastern culture has been around for thousands of years, America for a little over 200 but only now they all want to kill us? Because of a religious belief that they have held for 2500 years?

Actually, within history, the relations between the U.S. and all Middle Eastern countries was pretty good. It was the British they didn't like a whole lot for reasons that one can look up for themselves. In 1948 the creation of Israel is what started the problem and it continues to this day. Yet the Arabs, Kurds, Persians, etc. still liked Americans. We were treated very well there and were respected. Even after the formation and U.S. support of Israel. It was our support of the Shah of Iran even after it became evident that he was a brutal dictator that started the Middle Eastern anger toward America. He was such a great friend the U.S. even gave him asylum when the clerics overthrew him. Our financial and weapon support of Iran for decades fueled the angry rhetoric and religious fervor of those still in power today after the Shah was overthrown (which we tried to prevent) in 1989.

So, the U.S. and USSR switched sides. Iraq and Saddam Hussein became our pawn in the Iran-Iraq war, Iran became theirs and we both supplied them all kinds of nasty things. And people wonder why Iranians think the U.S. is the great Satan? If I were Iranian, I might think the same.

Time after time, we stuck our nose into situations in the Middle East due to the need and greed of the oil companies to reap the financial benefits.

Afghanistan: We created al-Qaeda and then left them on their own after they helped drive the USSR from there. Through terrorism.

Kuwait: We used that tool Hussein again to justify an American invasion. Bush didn't push onto Baghdad because we needed that idiot there for future use.

Saudi: We left 20,000 armed U.S. soldiers there to "protect" the Royal Family who were already under their own kind of internal pressure. "Just in case" Saddam decided to attack them, an unlikely and completely suicidal gesture on his part if he had. But it was good cover for the typical American who really didn't care. Bin Laden cared and warned us for years. But we ignored him because...he wouldn't dare.

Now we are back in Iraq for no reason other than to have a military presence there (we got to use Saddam for one last excuse), we are chasing Afghani's around in the mountains who fight against us one day and fight with us the next, we are embroiled in the politics and sovereignty of Pakistan where the next big blow up is likely to occur (overthrow, Muslim extremists...see Iran, add nuclear weapons, North Korean missile technology, and a nuclear enemy in India), and we provide millions of dollars every month in aid to Israel (about 50% of all U.S. aid goes only to Israel) who they already despise.

And now Israel attacks an unarmed ship in international waters, kills people (including citizens of NATO member Turkey) and people in here want to justify it? Have we not learned anything?

We reap what we have allowed our U.S. Government to sow.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 08:08 PM
link   
It is not my purpose to detail how Zionism should be dealt with. Let me state, however, that isolated or spontaneous acts against individuals or the mere adoption of resolutions in the UN or elsewhere are not effective means of bringing an end to Zionism. Let me state also that the battle against Zionism must be waged first, not on the shores of the Mediterranean, but in Zionism's most powerful bastion -- the USA>

As an American citizen, I deplore that our government and our politicians have adopted an attitude that is in complete contradiction to the advice of the father of our country George Washington. Instead of shying away from foreign entanglements and permanent alliances with foreign powers, the establishment in Washington has embraced Zionism so wholeheartedly that in the eyes any criticism of the Zionist state and any opposition to political Zionism in the UN by any nation has become a punishable offense. And the docile American media do not dare to speak out against such an absurdity.

Unfortunately, thus far, each year sees still further gains in influence by American Zionists. This fact has made possible events and developments that were unthinkable even ten years ago. It takes a lot of courage to be opposed to Zionism in the USA today. It also took a lot of courage during the Second World War to be anti-Fascist in Italy or anti-Nazi in Germany. In the long run Zionism is nothing but a passing aberration in the long history of the Jewish people and of the world.

Let us take faith and hope in the certainty that eventually prejudice, hatred, and injustice will disappear, and that the prophecy will come true that all nations of the world will participate in the pilgrimage to Jerusalem "for My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations."
www.jewsnotzionists.org...



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 09:13 PM
link   

Originally posted by Beaux

Afghanistan: We created al-Qaeda and then left them on their own after they helped drive the USSR from there. Through terrorism.



Since you couldn't be bothered to do enough homework to get this simple thing right, I can't take any of the rest of your post at face value, either.

'We' did NOT create al-Qaida, and al-Qaida did NOT fight Russians in Afghanistan. Matter of fact, al-Qaida never even existed until several years after the Russians had left Afghanistan.

BTW, the Shah was deposed in 1979, not 1989.

I suspect the rest of your 'facts' are similarly taken because 'someone said so', and because they seemed to fit in your worldview, rather than having any basis in 'fact'.



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 05:05 AM
link   

Originally posted by princeofpeace
And nopw that Gazans dont want the aid????

I guess the Kayatusha rockets they ordered were on backorder, so they just refused the whole shipment. ("C4! Where is the C4?!? What am I supposed to use to detonate myself with, vinegar and baking soda? Send the whole thing back!!")



More of your propaganda:

They didn't accept portion of the aid because that would just reinforce the blockade:

The soul reason why the ships were sent was to stop this illegal blockade:

Collective Punishment is illegal.

Go spread your propaganda in FOX news forums.

"Me and my family had nothing to do with the home made fireworks being fired towards Israel, so why am I being punished for it?"

[edit on 3-6-2010 by LittleSecret]



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 06:44 AM
link   
reply to post by Vitchilo
 


Israel should accept lifting the Gaza blockade AFTER the world will solve
Darfur situation, force NK to lift their ''blockade'' against their own 23
million ppl, solve the hunger in Somalia (there is shortage of food, not
in Gaza), or other world nasty situation far worse than Gaza.

I always wondered why world opinion explode when a palestinian kid
get killed, but don't give a flying crap when hundreds die somwhere else
in the world.

Talk about evil Israel, like is the last problem or the worst problem left
to solve in the world...



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 07:49 AM
link   
reply to post by Recollector
 




Israel should accept lifting the Gaza blockade AFTER the world


No Israel should not accept, Israel should be forced to end the Gaza blockade, and they will be forced.

The world is not gonna sit and watch while Israel locks 1.5 millions people in a small piece of land because it is afraid some maniac will send some home made firework towards Israel.

Your comment is an offence to those suffering not just in Gaza but also the other places you mentions (Darfur...)



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 09:15 AM
link   
reply to post by dreamwalker74
 


Why are you double posting all the time? When you double post, you remove comments from the duplicate and label it as a double post.

IRM



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 11:08 AM
link   
I'm glad Israel has refused an independant enquiery. Why should they bow down to the islamic media lies?

I can't believe the world is sucked into the pretend gaza plight. It is the best tool that islam has, and it is working a treat. Israel hated by the world.

Islam is trying to take over the world - and it's doing a fine job. Especially here where no-one seems willing to question the spoon fed media. Did you learn nothing in conspiracy school? Rule 1 - whatever the media tells you - the opposite is true.



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 12:55 PM
link   

Originally posted by LittleSecret
reply to post by Recollector

Your comment is an offence to those suffering not just in Gaza but also the other places you mentions (Darfur...)


How is Recollector's comments offensive to those in the places they mention? At least Recollector REMEMBERS them, and calls for their relief. YOU, on the other hand, couldn't give a fat rat's ass about any but the 'palestinians', 'gazans' in particular. That evidently unnoticed problem indicates to me that you care nary a whit for the 'downtrodden', you have only a political agenda to promote 'palestinians'.

Yes, we see your self-serving vitriol in favor of 'palestinians', or possibly just against Israelis - but where is your outrage for the rest of the downtrodden?

Yeah, yeah, I know - it gets lost in the noise of all the shouting... and no one else notices that it's missing...



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 01:37 PM
link   

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by Beaux

Afghanistan: We created al-Qaeda and then left them on their own after they helped drive the USSR from there. Through terrorism.



Since you couldn't be bothered to do enough homework to get this simple thing right, I can't take any of the rest of your post at face value, either.

'We' did NOT create al-Qaida, and al-Qaida did NOT fight Russians in Afghanistan. Matter of fact, al-Qaida never even existed until several years after the Russians had left Afghanistan.

BTW, the Shah was deposed in 1979, not 1989.

I suspect the rest of your 'facts' are similarly taken because 'someone said so', and because they seemed to fit in your worldview, rather than having any basis in 'fact'.


Ahhh, when you have lived as long as I have, dates can be confusing. You are correct, it was 1979, not '89.

Aren't all "facts" based on what someone else said or wrote, unless you were an eyewitness to them? I tend to listen to experts or at least those with more knowledge than myself, or you, I suspect.

Michel Chossudovsky from America’s War on Terrorism
Al-Qaeda Is a U.S.-sponsored Intelligence Asset: www.globalresearch.ca...

Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org...
"The origins of al-Qaeda as a network inspiring terrorism around the world and training operatives can be traced to the Soviet war in Afghanistan[34] (December 1979 – February 1989). The United States viewed the conflict in Afghanistan, with the Afghan Marxists and allied Soviet troops on one side and the native Afghan mujahideen on the other, as a blatant case of Soviet expansionism and aggression. The U.S. channelled funds through Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency to the native Afghan mujahideen fighting the Soviet occupation in a CIA program called Operation Cyclone."

Your claim that al-Qaeda "never even existed until several years after the Russians had left Afghanistan" seems...misplaced. Perhaps I am not the only one challenged by dates.

hubpages.com...
The United States also provided military training for the Afghanistan rebels. This military training was passed along to Al Qaeda and has been incorporated into many Al Qaeda training camps. The military tactics and organizational structure used by the United States, in many regards, is now being used by the Al Qaeda against the United States. The weapons and training provided by the United States during the Soviet-Afghan war aided in Afghanistan’s battle against the Soviets, but also indirectly enabled Al Qaeda.

The alleged mastermind behind the 9/11 terrorists attacks, Saudi-born Osama bin Laden, was recruited during the Soviet-Afghan war, "ironically under the auspices of the CIA, to fight Soviet invaders".(Hugh Davies, "`Informers’ point the finger at bin Laden; Washington on alert for suicide bombers." The Daily Telegraph, London, 24 August 1998).

"With the active encouragement of the CIA and Pakistan’s ISI, who wanted to turn the Afghan Jihad into a global war waged by all Muslim states against the Soviet Union, some 35,000 Muslim radicals from 40 Islamic countries joined Afghanistan’s fight between 1982 and 1992. Tens of thousands more came to study in Pakistani madrasahs. Eventually, more than 100,000 foreign Muslim radicals were directly influenced by the Afghan jihad." (Ahmed Rashid, "The Taliban: Exporting Extremism", Foreign Affairs, November-December 1999).

Perhaps my sentence was poorly worded but the facts remain. The U.S. was involved in the creation of al-Qaeda. And, like the other things noted, it has contributed significantly to our current state including our response, or lack thereof, to the Israeli attack on an unarmed ship in international waters.



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 06:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by Beaux

Ahhh, when you have lived as long as I have, dates can be confusing. You are correct, it was 1979, not '89.


Agreed. I happen to recall those days particularly pointedly, is all. It was a turbulent time. I recall the assasination of Sadat as well, which I believe was probably pivotal as things turned out.



Aren't all "facts" based on what someone else said or wrote, unless you were an eyewitness to them?


Again, agreed. Eyewitness beats hearsay hands down, and every time.



I tend to listen to experts or at least those with more knowledge than myself, or you, I suspect.


That wouldn't be the first thing I've been suspected of!

Be that as it may, you can suspect away.

I'll not go much further into the Soviet War in Afghanistan, as it's really a side issue to this thread. I'm sure we'll meet again around the boards, where we can discuss it in a more appropriate thread. I'll leave you with the last word on it, for the time being.

One thing that I believe MAY be pertinent to this thread is this: I learned arabic in the late 70's. The individual who taught me was a Syrian muslim, and had been the equivalent of a 'sergeant' in the Syrian Army at the Golan Heights. He wasn't any stranger to the region or this conflict, and certainly bore no great love for Israel. What he said is as pertinent now as it was then, and it was this - "The war don't stop here. Last 4,000 years, it is the exact same war. The only changes have been in what the players call themselves, and who they ally with. They are the same. The war is the same. It will never end, even if Israel does." I remember those words, and even his voice, vividly. Those words have haunted me for years. Strangely, or at least I thought it strange back then, he ALWAYS referred to Palestinians as "Philistines". As it turns out, 'Filistia' is the arabic for Palestine, and 'Filistine' is the arabic word for the Palestinians, so it wasn't really that strange after all.

Back then I was violently, dare I say 'militantly', anti-Israeli. Then I saw, and I learned. Over time, as I got older, saw more, and THOUGHT more, I underwent a transformation, similar to the one experienced by ATS member Yssachar1 recently, but in the opposite direction. A 180 degree reversal. I have perhaps a different view of the situation there than most, and can neither lay blame for this mess at the hands of the IDF NOR the Palestinians. I don't pity the Palestinians, though. Far from it, I believe them to be willing pawns of other powers.

Powers that have been at play there for millennia, and will continue to be at play long after they are dust.



Perhaps my sentence was poorly worded but the facts remain. The U.S. was involved in the creation of al-Qaeda. And, like the other things noted, it has contributed significantly to our current state including our response, or lack thereof, to the Israeli attack on an unarmed ship in international waters.


Ok, one last jab. You KNEW I couldn't let it be altogether, right?


Al Qaida was the brainchild of bin Laden and a few others. During the Soviet War, bin Laden stayed for the most part near the Afghan/Pak border southwest of Jalalabad. He never got near a battle but once that I'm aware of, and I believe that was just so he could say he did. He actually stayed afar off and directed it, rather than participating. Yet a legend has grown up around him, as frequently happens. He brought his own money, and spread it around liberally. He actually REFUSED CIA assistance on at least 3 separate occaissions. Bin Laden never took a dime from the CIA, as he didn't want to be perceived as having been 'tainted' by western influences. What later became the 'core' of al Qaida was what were then known as 'Afghan Arabs', foreign volunteers to the war. The core of al Qaida were those Afghan Arabs who gravitated to the money and influence of bin Laden, not even all of the foreign volunteers. As a whole, there were probably a quarter million mujahideen fighters, perhaps 1200 to 1500 of which were Afghan Arabs, some of which gravitated to bin Laden and formed the eventual core of al Qaida. These, like bin Laden, eschewed western aid. Most even avoided ISI assistance, since they thought (probably rightly) that a good bit of that originated in the US.

Yes, 'we' helped the muj, even including some attempted training. What later became al Qaida wasn't among that number, by their own wishes.

The Taliban is another question altogether. Look to Pakistani ISI for the genesis of the Taliban.




top topics



 
26
<< 1  2  3    5 >>

log in

join