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If Turkey and Israel go to war - Who would the US standby?

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posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 01:11 PM
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If it was only the two countries then we would stand by and watch.
BUT.. there is no way that it would be only the two countries.
Iran, Syria and everyone else would join the band wagon.
Then just before they (Israel) gets their butts kicked the world would see all the countries involved devastated by a small country about the size of New Jersey.
They don't need the US, they have God backing them.




posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by Magic Bullet
reply to post by Incubus
 


Sorry to say China could never take us all out by its self ,the reason too many chiefs and not enough indians!!!


let's just get the indians to do it then :p i hear they have quite the experience with computers.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 01:43 PM
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It may help to actually review the North Atlantic Treaty and particularly Article 5. For NATO to become involved militarily Israel would need to attack Turkey. However, NATO also has a stronge political complexion and you can be sure that diplomats would prevent any situation resulting in Israel attacking Turkey.

The North Atlantic Treaty

A ship full of activists does not constitute “Turkey”, regardless of the fact the ship may be Turkish registered and rented by a Turkish organisation. I expect NATO members would refuse to support a situation whereby Turkey provokes direct attack.

That said, conflict won’t happen. It is a fantasy.

Regards



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 02:37 PM
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Shocking as this may sound...Greece will back Turkey, yes Greece actually would back Turkey. And after that...its the EU versus Israel.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 02:45 PM
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We may see the test of all our various theories when the Irish/Maylasian ship arrives in the area.

The Turks have gone on record as saying they will send their Navy to escort this next convoy. But, assuming that this rhetoric is more than just a paen to the war-hawks at home, what can the Turkish Navy actually do?

They can escort the ships in international waters and resist with force any act of piracy. They can even penetrate the Israeli declared exclusion zone knowing that the diplomats can sort that given time.

At this point, it becomes a matter of who shoots first (and who can prove it) that will decide Americas' initial diplomatic stance. Prudence would dictate no American response at all until one side or the other officially requests assistance.

Then America will either honor her pledge to the NATO Alliance or admit before the entire world that she has surrendered to the seduction of AIPAC and has been defeated by traitors within the halls of power.

We do indeed live in interesting times... (ancient Chinese curse, right?)


[edit on 2-6-2010 by Tholidor]



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 03:09 PM
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It is my opinion that America will drop its UN membership long before dropping its 'unconditional' support for Israel.







[edit on 2-6-2010 by Skellon]



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 03:30 PM
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Oh, so much misinformed people here in the forum.

1. Turkish people are not Arabs. Very different people. Israel only knows the Arabs as enemies and that's their main problem.
2. USA will not and cannot stand beside Israel cos Turkey is a NATO member and Israel not. Risking the NATO for Israel would be plain madness...
3. Some called the Israel army well trained, yes but not very motivated. Last time they nearly lost against the Hezbollah and politically Israel is sort of divided. Turkish army is also very hard and pro trained with traditionally the best pilots in the NATO. Turkish people and army are EXTREMELY motivated with little to no fear of dying. Turkish people are traditionally very good fighters (Mongolian heritage). The Turkish army has large amounts of artillery and nuclear artillery and they can throw 2 million soldiers into the fight. The navy is MUCH bigger than the Israel navy. If Turkey would blockade the medit Israel would be isolated - think about that. On the long run Israel has no chance to win. Israels resources are much much more limited. Turkey has no foe in the region - Israel is surrounded by foes. From Marroco to Indonesia from Usbekistan to Sudan everybody hates the Israelis. Israel must fight it's way through Libanon & Syria to attack the Turks but this two countries would be glad to help the Turks attacking Israel.

Oh, Greece will support Turkey - no discussion.

[edit on 2-6-2010 by BritishSpy]



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 04:10 PM
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This is what I wrote about this in another thread...

As I said in another thread, this also has the capacity to rip NATO apart.

Having had a Turkish vessel attacked by an Isaeli military force, and Turkish citizens killed and injured, Turkey are well within their rights to invoke that part of the NATO treaty that states ' An attack on one member is an attack on all'

I really can't see the USA going for that one, not in a million years... I can however see Turkey resigning from NATO, and denouncing the alliance for being worse than useless and 'not fit for purpose' ...

If that happens it might also make one or two other members take a second look at the usefulness of an Alliance that depends on whether any retaliation for an attack on a fellow member (by the US) depends on whether the attacker is Israel or not.

I also suspect the US would see NATO ripped apart, rather than have NATO used as a tool against Israel.

Essentially, as things stand at present, Israel is untouchable ... as long as the have their hands poised over the US government's gonads, they can do what they like... and get away with it.

One possibility I do see... Turkey withdrawing from NATO and kicking the US out of all their Turkish bases. I doubt it will happen, but with the current level of anger in Turkey - both at Israel for the raid, and at the US for refusing to condemn it outright and agree to an independant inquiry- it still remains a possibility.


Apologies about repeating it here... but I thought it was very appropiate for this thread. It's use in the other thread was the result of another member's comments.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 04:33 PM
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Originally posted by BritishSpy

2. USA will not and cannot stand beside Israel cos Turkey is a NATO member and Israel not. Risking the NATO for Israel would be plain madness...


Its not that simple. I think we all agree that Turkey is not going to go to war over this one incident, so obviously, they're not going to invoke the mutual defense clause, either.

The question is what happens now. I think Turkey needs to be careful here. The problem for Turkey is that the most likely scenario for a future incident involves their fleet sailing into and attempting to break a known Israeli blockade of a third party coastline. That act could be construed as being at least somewhat aggressive, and in doing so, it would lend some credence to the argument that they provoked the Israelis. And there's always the possibility that Turkish ships could fire the first shot, anyway. Given that NATO is a defensive alliance, any provocative act by Turkey could be used as a justification to downplay the legitimacy of a claim for mutual defense.

Something else to keep in mind: Turkey denied the US usage of its territory to launch a ground invasion through northern Iraq in 2003. That might very well come back to haunt them.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 04:35 PM
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The next aid boat is coming from Ireland.

Hilary Clinton is from Celtic descent.

The Irish government have warned Isreal not to touch the ship.

If they do whose side is Clinton going to support ?

Remember the US supported the IRA at the height of their war with UK.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 04:41 PM
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GOD i HOPE Turkey sends her Navy with the next batch of supplies, I'd love to see someone in this world finally step up and do the right thing for their people. You wont get the real Palestinian story on the news anywhere in the states, they are in desperate need of help.

As for an Arab conflict in the region:

Would Americans be up in arms if Mexico took Texas by force and gave it to the Native American 'Indians'? Texans would be blowing themselves up if they were treated like cattle and pushed to live in desolate conditions.

Their Should be NO state of Israel, only free Jewish people in Palestine.

Trillions of Dollars (since 1974) get sent to about 20 million people, making the Jews the largest welfare recipient of the U.S.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 04:46 PM
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BTW, I know the Floatilla was not government sanctioned by Turkey, and therefore not responsible for delivering supplies, but still I wish Turkey would see the attack as an insult worthy of war.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 04:48 PM
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Originally posted by BritishSpy
Oh, so much misinformed people here in the forum.

1. Turkish people are not Arabs. Very different people. Israel only knows the Arabs as enemies and that's their main problem.
2. USA will not and cannot stand beside Israel cos Turkey is a NATO member and Israel not. Risking the NATO for Israel would be plain madness...
3. Some called the Israel army well trained, yes but not very motivated. Last time they nearly lost against the Hezbollah and politically Israel is sort of divided. Turkish army is also very hard and pro trained with traditionally the best pilots in the NATO. Turkish people and army are EXTREMELY motivated with little to no fear of dying. Turkish people are traditionally very good fighters (Mongolian heritage). The Turkish army has large amounts of artillery and nuclear artillery and they can throw 2 million soldiers into the fight. The navy is MUCH bigger than the Israel navy. If Turkey would blockade the medit Israel would be isolated - think about that. On the long run Israel has no chance to win. Israels resources are much much more limited. Turkey has no foe in the region - Israel is surrounded by foes. From Marroco to Indonesia from Usbekistan to Sudan everybody hates the Israelis. Israel must fight it's way through Libanon & Syria to attack the Turks but this two countries would be glad to help the Turks attacking Israel.

Oh, Greece will support Turkey - no discussion.

[edit on 2-6-2010 by BritishSpy]


Decently presented, however there are fallacies.

In regards to #2, I would like your reasoning as to why USA wouldn't risk NATO. They already have by not pressuring Israel to allow the aid through so in actuality your statement is undoubtedly false. (albeit quite sad, looking at things objectively)

Truth be told, when backed into a corner militarily, Israel would not hesitate to use nuclear force. They would have nothing to lose at that point. Self fulfilling prophecy and all that. In a conventional war, Turkey would have a logistics nightmare if other countries didn't play ball, but in the end nothing conventional would really mean much.

Face it folks, ever since entering the nuclear age, we entered the end days. No I'm not a doom and gloomer but when reality is pummeling your face, it's kind of hard not to notice.. or is it? Depends on the perspective I guess.

And let's not forget about all the other nuke wielding countries, in a nuclear Armageddon, every country would end up picking a side, not necessarily having two sides, either. I plan on making a thread on this topic in the future, and I won't derail this thread further, sorry!



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 04:50 PM
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Originally posted by bigyin
The next aid boat is coming from Ireland.

Hilary Clinton is from Celtic descent.

The Irish government have warned Isreal not to touch the ship.

If they do whose side is Clinton going to support ?

Remember the US supported the IRA at the height of their war with UK.





Hillary made her point clear. It is unwise to assume that her lineage has anything to do with the actions the U.S. may or may not take. She is part of a collective, if you will.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 04:58 PM
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Originally posted by Mr Objectivity

Originally posted by bigyin
The next aid boat is coming from Ireland.

Hilary Clinton is from Celtic descent.

The Irish government have warned Isreal not to touch the ship.

If they do whose side is Clinton going to support ?

Remember the US supported the IRA at the height of their war with UK.





Hillary made her point clear. It is unwise to assume that her lineage has anything to do with the actions the U.S. may or may not take. She is part of a collective, if you will.


I agree to a point, but all these politicians have to ultimatly answer to themselves, their families, their friends and those who vote for them.

I maintain that if an Irish ship gets attacked by anyone, there will be an outcry in US higherarchy .... there comes a point when backhanders from Israelis don't mean anything.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 05:03 PM
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For the US risking the NATO would also mean risking the EU - this would lead to massive economical problems. Fact is: Risking NATO & EU is much much much more costlier than risking Israel. As I said it would be plain madness...
Driving the Turks into an alliance with the Arabs & Iran would be a geopolitical catastrophy for the US. Look at the bills - which one is costlier - an easy guess.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 05:21 PM
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Originally posted by bigyin
Remember the US supported the IRA at the height of their war with UK.

The US did not support the IRA. Some US citizens supported the IRA when terrorism was apparently a good thing. There is a difference.

Regards

edit to correct spelling

[edit on 2/6/2010 by paraphi]



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 05:29 PM
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Turks are going to ask for compensation and an apology from Israel and that will be the extend of it .

imho.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 05:38 PM
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reply to post by 23432
 


That, or something similar, is the most likely outcome. I think its mostly just bluster from the Turkish side and they aren't really interested in a fight. I doubt the Israelis board another ship in international waters again anytime soon, either.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 05:47 PM
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Originally posted by paraphi

Originally posted by bigyin
Remember the US supported the IRA at the height of their war with UK.

The US did not support the IRA. Some US citizens supported the IRA when terrorism was apparently a good thing. There is a difference.

Regards

edit to correct spelling

[edit on 2/6/2010 by paraphi]


That my point exactly .... politicians can say one thing when something else actually happens.



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