Turn Your Car/Truck Into a HHO/Gas Hybrid

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posted on Jan, 29 2012 @ 12:42 PM
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I am going to try at a setup on 1998 GMC 5.7L.
I have ordered a MAP/MAF controller and an O2 controller for now. Looking to piece together the rest in the next couple of weeks. I see people talking about "wet" and "dry" HHO systems. Not quite clear on either yet. They seems to favor one or the other. I was thinking of a "dry" HHO system. Not sure if chemicals are needed for it. I'm not concerned with the extra power draw. That can easily be remedied.
I'm in north U.S. so am looking for the best setup for cold climates. I saw someone has a chemical concoction for antifreezing purposes. I'd rather stay away from chemicals as much as possible. I did see a video where it is better to use different types of metals layered over just say like all steel. I would think this might cause corrosive issues but not sure since they are still separated.
If this turns out well I am going to install one on 1999 suburban 5.7L and a 4.3L.
Any already found info will be appreciated. I will also post findings when I get it all completed!




posted on Jan, 29 2012 @ 05:24 PM
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Hello, friend, glad to have you. I find that a mix of 1/3 denatured alcohol in the reactors works best for temps in the freezing weather. I always, in winter, take my jars out every night. Be sure to use Tempered Glass Mason or Ball jars only. Be absolutely sure to power each jar reactor through a 50 Amp Toggle Switch, and a 50 Amp Automotive Circuit Breaker, and use 10 gauge automotive wire. These steps will ensure long life, and will keep the Amperage Draw down to 50 Amps across the board, so keeping the jar temperature below 150 degrees. (The Reactors will pull as many Amps as you let it, even hooked up this way, leave it on without the engine running, after about 10 minutes you will have a dead battery.)
Remember, to use only stainless bolts, or wire, however you rig it, personally, I like bolts better, more production. The KOH will take the Nickel right out of the bolts after a few months use.
Remove the Cat! The Oxygen produced will fill the CAT, and a hot CAT full of Oxygen is a bomb, make no mistake about it! Don't worry, you won't be polluting anymore running HHO. We tried the OXY Sensor hooked up, and not hooked up, works better unhooked, for us anyway.

After just 30 minutes run time with the HHO, your engine will smooth out, and all of the carbon (engine killer) will be gone from it. U2 me if you have any questions, friend. Happy Motoring!



posted on Jan, 29 2012 @ 07:35 PM
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reply to post by autowrench
 


Actually, I saw that salt water gives the best results for making hydrogen. If I go with a "wet" HHo I may go that route. It should help with the freezing concern also.
edit on 29-1-2012 by Corruptedstructure because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 29 2012 @ 10:07 PM
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Agreed, salt will solve the freezing problem. However, salt does not contain much Electrolytes. I began with Baking Soda, but is gives off Chlorine Gas. I tried Vinegar, I even tried urine, which works, but gives off a terrible small. KOH gives the best production, I mean, when I engage the reactors, the gas raises bubbles of HHO in the Bubbler jar like you are blowing through the tube.



posted on Jan, 30 2012 @ 11:40 AM
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Ok. Thanks for the info. Have you looked into the dry HHO systems?

www.amazon.com...=is_box_?k=dry+hho
edit on 30-1-2012 by Corruptedstructure because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 14 2012 @ 01:26 PM
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I am living in South Africa, Cape Town. Design and build HHO Generators. Full Stainless 316L Dry-Cell Units. No Plastic Endplates which can cause a melt-down. My Cells are 21 Plate 6 x 8 inch and weigh 7 Kg. At the moment the Best on the Market. petergrote@hotmail.com



posted on May, 16 2012 @ 09:19 PM
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Updates on my setup:

I had been experiencing heat problems with the plastic lids. The holes getting bigger was causing leaks of the HHO. New plan. I bought several of those cheap plastic cutting boards, and cut circles for the jar tops, with holes for outlet, and electrodes. This seems to be working pretty good, in two months time I have had to replace one lid only. That problem? Well, for some strange reason I noticed the ground electrode was running real hot on one reactor. Turned out the problem was an oversight by myself, I should have known that one 16 gauge automotive wire would carry the entire load of two ground electrodes. Separate ground wires did the trick, now both grounds run warm, but never hot.

I have been mixing my water mix at 4 teaspoons of KOH per quart, that runs the jars at about 150 degrees, a comfortable temp for this application. I have had to replace several jars, it seems that running hot for a long time does something to the tempered glass, and it cracks. I have learned to carry extra jars.

Another trick I learned was this:
After a trip of 35-50 miles, being it is a closed system, some of the electrolyte diminishes, the jars go down about 1/3 of the volume. I change out the electrolyte often, so when I do this, I pour the old stuff into a milk jug and carry it with me. When the reactors drop in volume, instead of adding new electrolyte, I add the old electrolyte to fill the jar. This seems to work pretty good for me, if I add new electrolyte to a hot reactor, it really produces after, and runs a great deal hotter. The old electrolyte added does not raise the temperate.

Running this same system setup for more than two years now, and still working great. Great mileage, 30-32 average on a good day on the open highway, always over 20 in town, as long as the reactors are hot and full of electrolyte. Five people in my town are now running my design.
I am still working on a plate style reactor what will produce enough HHO to run the truck.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 12:58 PM
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Not trying to bump this thread, but in an attempt to help those who are running these to save gas. New ideas working great.

I solved the heat problems by making the electrolyte mix lighter by 30%. The jars still get hot, but the bolts do not. A heavy mix, that is, 3-4 teaspoons of KOH, makes for a lot of production, but draws a lot of voltage, and runs really how after just a short trip. So if you are using KOH as your electrolyte, start with one 1 and 1/2 teaspoons per quart first, then experiment with it until you are happy.

I have been having a lot of trouble with my bubbler jar. This I made with a quart Mason jar, the feed live from the twin reactors goes to the jar, and down a tube to the bottom, the jar is half filled with plain water, and an outlet at the top feeds the engine. Trouble is, a long trip seems to take from the reactors, and fills the bubbler jar completely, resulting in water going into the engine, making it miss and stumble. I tried a few experiments, all to no avail.

I was in an HHO forum, reading up on bubbler configurations, and someone said they had the same problem. So this person made a Filter instead. What he did was take a piece of PVC with screw on ends, stuffed it full of old socks, and ran his HHO gas through it. So, I got myself a strong, squared plastic jar with a screw on lid, I think peanuts and M&Ms came in it. Installed a 45 degree hose outlet on each end, one in the lid, one on the bottom, and fed the feed line into the bottom, and the outlet to the engine at the top, from the lid outlet. Stuffed it tight with old socks.

Soon as I started the engine, I heard the jar sides pop, indicating a vacuum pull. Ran the engine up, and my my, my vacuum gauge now reads 22 Hg at idle, and in gear it runs 17Hg. Power is enhanced. The electrolyte comes down the feed tube some, but cannot make it through the socks. Haven't been anywhere to check mileage as yet, but she sure runs better now. also, I can use my MAP Sensor Enhancer to turn the voltage down even further to the ECM, thus using less gasoline, and more HHO.
I will post new photos here soon of my setup.
edit on 5/23/12 by autowrench because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 10:02 AM
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reply to post by Corruptedstructure
 

Why a Dry Cell is better. I am convinced since seeing one work on a man's car.



Here is a discussion about plate configuration in a dry cell reactor:

Different Cell Configurations Will Give Hugely Varied Results

I am at this time building a 21 plate, three stage dry cell for my van. I will post results when I get it online.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 01:54 AM
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Your killer talented mr auto and hope to read more like this from you. Good job



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 09:09 AM
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reply to post by autowrench
 
sorry hoss , was gatherin up my tools and chargin the wireless , ole lady is huntin the bank card .
dependin on how long it takes overnite to get here i hope to be econimizen rite along side of ya.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 10:45 AM
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Originally posted by WarriorOfLight96
Your killer talented mr auto and hope to read more like this from you. Good job

I cannot take any credit, except for adding my own design to someone else's design, making it better. I am after gas mileage. I love big V8 vehicles, I love high horsepower engines, and I love great mileage. We are running at an average of 28-30 mpg right now, two jar wet cell setup. I have some of the parts and beginning construction on a 21 plate dry cell. I will record this with photos, and will post all about the device, and the results I get with it.



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 09:29 AM
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reply to post by autowrench
 



I have installed one on a 1998 GMC 1500. I have good results so far. The extra power increase was substantial also. Very safe in easy installation. I bought the supplies from this site:

www.greenfuelh2o.com...

The guy Steve is very helpful with quick feedback.

My next project is to run a Subaru 4cyl completely off of the "V8" kit or at least be able to switch it completely over once at cruising speeds...



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 11:07 AM
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reply to post by Corruptedstructure
 

Please don't tell me you paid $500 for that kit? I am building my own with a $150 budget. $36 for the stainless plates at Lowes, $5.89 apiece for two 10" x 10" acrylic sheets for end plates, ($5.98 each) and 2 liner feet of shower liner for gaskets. ($2.57) I will be ordering this 3 Quart HHO Water Reservoir Bubbler for $30, and spend another $20 on new tubing, some electrical wire, and a few terminals.

You people that wish to run HHO Generators? Don't be fooled by some of these many websites selling them for a profit. I have discovered through experience that the best results is to build you own, bench test it, improve it to perfection, and do it for a fraction of what they are getting for some of these.



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 03:37 PM
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reply to post by autowrench
 


No. He allows you to buy just the plates, gaskets and hardware to assemble yourself considerably cheaper. I peiced together the rest myself like you just mentioned.


www.greenfuelh2o.com...

see the bottom of the link



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 11:10 PM
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reply to post by Corruptedstructure
 

Whew! OK. I was a little worried there! Have you built one before? I have built several wet cell reactors, and rebuilt those too. I once had six wet cells all going at once.



posted on Aug, 3 2012 @ 09:48 AM
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reply to post by autowrench
 


Holy smokes, Autowrench, you are definitely on to something with this.

I'm still an utter noobie with engine alterations, but I am subscribing to this thread so I can read through it again and use the resources you folks have posted to learn more about how to make these types of changes when I finally am able to get a non-computerized vehicle.

Thanks for taking the time to include updates and tell us about what has worked and failed. I definitely know that I don't want to use plastics in whatever system I choose to install, and the meltdowns you've had just reinforce this thought. This is an excellent thread.



posted on Sep, 20 2012 @ 02:51 PM
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Awesome info Autowrench, As a precaution to all, I blew the top offa my first experiment so please be careful and think you design through thoroughly!! I was interested on applications to my 92 Mercedes inline 6 cyl engine. It gets about 18 miles per gallon and has decent power. Sounds like this could really give me more full tank driving range. My problem is the (older) Mercedes use a "fuel distributor" or a mechanical fuel injection though so I am thinking it may be difficult to adapt the system to it for efficient running. So I would be making an educated guess that it is better to run on a tunable computer controlled fuel injected vehicle Vs. a carburetor or other setup?

Thank you for helping keep this wonderful technology being explored.
We need more Tesla on the good side of thing in the world we live in now!



posted on Oct, 6 2012 @ 10:44 PM
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This is an interesting notion,,is it possible ???

I have to compliment you on your 'enhancement' Autowrench,it's bold and imaginative.

I'm very much like you,a car lover who spent far too much time under the bonnet of my car,or others.Modifying the engines particularly but the whole car too.I went to college and did engineering so I feel wholly able to critically examine your ideas,experiments and results,the debunkers too. and come to some conclusion !!!

Perhaps it's the generation of hydrogen in the engine bay that makes people dismissive along with the countless accounts of people claiming to run cars on water alone but lets think about this objectively !!

12-15 years ago I had an escort van,battered looking and rough with a high mileage diesel that I ran on diesel while feeding butane into the intake to promote much more powerful and complete combustion.It cut my fuel use in half,power was significantly increased aswell.Then there's nitrous or water injection so clearly feeding in hydrogen is a good idea.

Howabout Hydrogen Electrolyisis then ??

I can imagine there's people reading this will have their doubts because of the amateur nature of making the hydrogen generator For many who open the bonnet there's plastic boxes,hoses everywhere,computers and the first step in finding a problemis to plug in a code reader to tell you.So the days of being able to work on your car may be before the time of lots of drivers today.

Certainly in the day of ECU's and diagnostic fault finding the very notion of creating something this effective,apparently seems unbelievable (well to those of us who didnt tune our old motors from bits n pieces from the scrapyard !!).

A generator from metal,water and glass jars :~)

Why not,glass is a great medium.Strong and inert it's ideal.I remember doing electrolysis in school with glass beakers and old carbon anodes/cathodes and it certainly produced a torrent of gas.Then there's the curse of the free energy devices we here about so much which don't every work but people see this that way.Don't see why,big battery,to run the generator before starting.A feed from the alternator to maintain generation is the obvious solution.

The big argument that HHO works simply due to the engine running so lean,WHAT !!! - the quoted figure meant to demonstrate this was an afr of 9~1 when stoich is 14~1.The engine wouldnt run lean,it wouldnt run and if it did it'd be knocking to hell and barely avoiding dying.

It was claimed if it worked why remove the o2 sensor or adjust the MAP sensor yet the expert debunker didnt seem to understand he'd thrown the very reason as proof it couldn't work,namely an air/fuel ratio of 9~1.The o2 or lambda sensor monitors the amount of oxygen in the exhaust but that will have changed with the fueling.Add to that extra o2 because now it's burning HHO,hydrogen and what ?? - oxygen.If the ECU will try and increase the fueling,by way of longer opening times/duty cycle and more than likely take a fit before too long and go into LOS !!!

One of the parameters the ECU needs to know is engine load which is measured in this example by the MAP sensor.It's also essential to calculate the engines fueling.

So either the whole concepts a fantasy or that the missing part of the air/fuel ratio has to be replaced with another combustible gas/vapour ~ like hydrogen.As for the fantasy or reality I see nothing here to doubt what Autowrench has claims.

The time,thought,experience,ingenuity,and understanding that has gone into making this work.Then to continously adapt,modify and experiment to improve it (not only initially but still after 2 years !!) is inspiring.

Literally inspiring !!.I'm the product of this old school mechanics love of tuning/modifying that taught me not just simply how to diagnose faults with things like a vaccum guage or my eyes n ears.lol.

**********************************************************************************************************************************

Well I will be taking a stroll down this route myself.I'm interested to see what improvement I can get in my nicely warmed over toyota 4-cyl 1796cc 16 valve vvti motor.The modern European/Japanese I4 twin cam engines are normally high compression and lean running and a knock sensor as they do run close much of the time.

I'm not too sure how our higher revving engines will take to running on HHO or which way it'll take to it so want to sit down and number cruch it before doing it but if it can happily run without knocking then i'll br happier.

It's OBDII compliant which means it has 2 oxygen sensor,one infront the box and rhe other behind but there would be away around that !!

Am going to gather up supplies over the next few weeks to start building my own .And go through the numbers in public, using my sums to work ouiff HHO is feasable.

*** Would just like to say a big thank you to Autowrench for this highly informative,inspirational thread and having the grace to put it out here,working it,refining and learning by mistake .You didnt have to share it with us,who'd have blamed you for forgetting it when people with 'some' knowledge of engine management and fuelling tried to rubbish your work,saying it was against the law of physics !!! ~ really

Well I've looked all through it from front to back and can't find anything that's not stretching the boundries of physics.Rather it seems all well thought out,straightfoward,beautifully simple and concieved to be used by anyone willing enough to learn a thing or two.***

Once I've gone out and properly looked at my 1ZZ-FE motor I can plan the layout and capacity of my hydrogen generator/fuelling system.When you look under the bonnet of my avensis you'll see how packed with components and systems it is besides the engine and gearbox so it'll need to be robustly made and the layout fully thought out.

When I get it working i'll happily report it's benefits and drawbacks

Bob !!!


edit on 6/10/12 by fastbob72 because: added few lines





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