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Police arrest Census taker

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posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 10:24 AM
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Police arrest Census taker


www.westhawaiitoday.com

battle is brewing between the state and federal governments over a Census taker arrested in Puna for misdemeanor trespassing.

The U.S. Attorney's office filed papers Thursday in federal court in Honolulu to take the case of 57-year-old Russell Haas out of 3rd District Court. That will pit the feds against local prosecutors.

"I'm looking to have it kept in state court," county Deputy Prosecutor Christopher Bridges said Friday.

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Haas pleaded not guilty on April 8 to second-degree trespassing. He was arrested March 10 at 12:30 p.m. in in Hawaiian Acres, after a resi
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 10:24 AM
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Pretty interesting case. I don't know what to make of it. It all seems kind of ridiculous and I know ATS loves to rant about census workers and the whole idea of the census...so what does ATS think of this? Who's in the right/wrong?


"I turned to him and said, 'Or what?' And he said, 'I'll lock you up.'" And I turned back and said, 'So make your case.' They threw the cuffs on me, took me down to Keaau Police Station and I waited there until my daughter bailed me out." Haas' bail was $25.


www.westhawaiitoday.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 11:12 AM
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I think the Census taker was right, if the story happened as the article says. It IS the law and the cops seemed to ban together to make the Census taker look like the bad guy.

People are paranoid. But paranoid people still have to obey the law.



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 11:21 AM
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reply to post by Portugoal
 


They were all current or former police that were involved in the incident .

Enough said .......


Police arrest Census taker (ex police), for trespassing on property of off-duty policeman.



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 11:23 AM
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Maybe certain people are excused the normal route for the census for certain reasons... Say for instance in this case this guy who was an ex police officer (or current?) may have worked some cases where he had to go undercover for some reason... Or maybe he is still a target because of what he had to do in the line of duty - any form of explanation for something like that could compromise his position?

Just thinking out loud on that one, some people must have complicated and genuine reasons for not filling out a census form, of not doing it in the standard way.



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 11:23 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I think the Census taker was right, if the story happened as the article says. It IS the law and the cops seemed to ban together to make the Census taker look like the bad guy.

People are paranoid. But paranoid people still have to obey the law.


The only question you are required to answer is the number of people who live at that address. The rest of the questions on the Census are illegal.



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 11:27 AM
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Census takers have the right to take the census, but I don't think they have the right to trespass on your property. When I was reading the story and I got to the part where it said ""When I opened his gate and walked in ..." that's where the red flags went up. The census taker had no right to just walk into the guy's gate on his private property, uninvited. It sounds to me like the census taker was full of attitude and the cops took him to task over it, as they should have. It's interesting how Benevolent sides with the census taker and others side with the police. I guess you see what you want to see in this story.



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 11:31 AM
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reply to post by black cat
 


Actually, by law, they are allowed to go into your house if you aren't answering, for the sake of the census.



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 11:33 AM
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Originally posted by JIMC5499
The only question you are required to answer is the number of people who live at that address. The rest of the questions on the Census are illegal.


I don't think so.




US CODE Title 13

§ 221. Refusal or neglect to answer questions; false answers

(a) Whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any other authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof acting under the instructions of the Secretary or authorized officer, to answer, to the best of his knowledge, any of the questions on any schedule submitted to him in connection with any census or survey provided for by subchapters I, II, IV, and V of chapter 5 of this title, applying to himself or to the family to which he belongs or is related, or to the farm or farms of which he or his family is the occupant, shall be fined not more than $100.



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 11:47 AM
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The census taker was in the wrong. Both the homeowner and the police warned him to leave or face trespassing charges. Instead of acting all defiant to the police, he should have left and reported the matter to his superiors and allow them to deal with it in a more appropriate manner.



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 11:48 AM
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reply to post by Portugoal
 


really crazy.. i agree it is the law but there has to be some debate on this in congress if for nothing else other that a large number of citizens do not like the census.

Edit: finished arguement

[edit on 1-6-2010 by knowonder]



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 11:50 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by JIMC5499
The only question you are required to answer is the number of people who live at that address. The rest of the questions on the Census are illegal.


I don't think so.




US CODE Title 13

§ 221. Refusal or neglect to answer questions; false answers

(a) Whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any other authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof acting under the instructions of the Secretary or authorized officer, to answer, to the best of his knowledge, any of the questions on any schedule submitted to him in connection with any census or survey provided for by subchapters I, II, IV, and V of chapter 5 of this title, applying to himself or to the family to which he belongs or is related, or to the farm or farms of which he or his family is the occupant, shall be fined not more than $100.

However, you can on the grounds of religious objection to answer all questions save the number of people and gender of persons living at a residence.



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 11:58 AM
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Originally posted by Portugoal
Actually, by law, they are allowed to go into your house if you aren't answering, for the sake of the census.



Not true.

Most importantly, the Census Bureau will NEVER, under any circumstances, ask to enter your home.

Straight off the US Census website.



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 12:00 PM
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Originally posted by Portugoal
reply to post by black cat
 


Actually, by law, they are allowed to go into your house if you aren't answering, for the sake of the census.



No. To my knowledge they are not allowed to go into your house if you aren't answering.

I can state for a fact that they are trained to not enter private housing units, even if invited. They are also trained to not open any doors or gates unless they are on public portions of the property or a landlord allows them in.

As for this article, it does not sound like trespassing to me but details are lacking. I would have to see where this gate was in proximity of the actual home, and how the gate was situated. If this was a gate at the end of the driveway but was not locked and no signs are posted, then it would not be wrong for the census taker to pass through it to access the main entrance to ring the buzzer or knock on the door.

The census taker was asked to leave and he asked the homeowner if he could leave the Notice of Visit form. After being asked to leave the second time, the census taker stood outside of the property. Sounds to me like the homeowner is a jerk and wanted to stir things up - or there is much more to this story.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out what people have against the census. Christ, it is 10 simple little questions. My local Blockbuster Video has more private info on me than the Census form would get. Privacy is good, civil rights are good, but extreme paranoia is not good.



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 12:05 PM
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The police are supposed to be upholding the laws of this country.
The constitution are a part of those laws.
the officers need to be fired for not upholding laws of this country.

I hope that the feds pimp slap the cops.



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 12:09 PM
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reply to post by grey580
 


The cops were upholding the law. The home owner told the census worker to leave his property. At that point, he was trespassing and once he defied a police order to leave, he was arrested.

The census worker can't force the home owner to do anything, up to and including accepting the form to fill out. The only enforcement action that the census is legally able to carry out is to fine an individual who refuses the census. In this case, the census worker was overstepping his authority when he should have just reported it to his superiors and allowed them to decide whether or not to issue the fine.



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 12:18 PM
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LOL,...LOL...
Ironic isn't it! They get some of their own medicine and they are crying about it..lol...this made my day. thanks to the OP for posting this.



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 12:25 PM
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reply to post by vor78
 


possibly. however those census workers are tasked to try try and try again until all options to take the census have failed.

technically speaking you really can't tell a police officer he's tresspassing and then have him arrested for tresspassing.
or federal marshal for trying to arrest someone in your home.
or a code enforcement officer for checking for code violations.

on the same level i would argue that a census worker is empowered as an agent of the federal government and backed by the power of the constitution of the united states of america to be there to take the census.
that is his job.

now granted the census worker has no real power to do anything other than take the census. but he is empowered to go to your home and do that. and keep on comming back to your home as many times as it takes to get the info he needs to do his job.

the cops were wrong. in fact they flagrantly violated the law. each one of those cops needs to be fined 5,000 dollars each for aiding the home owner.
they need to be put in their place and shown that good ol boy practices have no place here in america.

the census worker was doing his job as is put forth by the constitution.

In fact if I was the federal government I would send in a FBI jack boot team of thugs armed with assault rifles and full riot gear with the census worker to protect the census worker while he performs his job.
Let's see the homeowner get the cops to come over and try to arrest the census worker with another weak ass tresspassing charge.

[edit on 1-6-2010 by grey580]



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 12:31 PM
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Originally posted by Portugoal
reply to post by black cat
 


Actually, by law, they are allowed to go into your house if you aren't answering, for the sake of the census.




NONSENSE!! Prove it or admit you have no idea what you are talking about...where did you get that crazy idea?



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 12:36 PM
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reply to post by grey580
 


They certainly can keep trying, but again, there are limits to their enforcement authority. US Code explicitly defines the penalty for non-compliance with the census, and that penalty is a fine.

Once the home owner refused all contact from the census worker and told him to leave the property, that should have been the end of their discussion. If the census worker didn't like it, he had two legal recourses: he could try again at a later date, or he could recommend to his superiors to issue a fine. He had no right or authority to continue to badger the home owner or refuse to comply with police authority after being asked to leave.

[edit on 1-6-2010 by vor78]



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