The Jewish American reaction to attack on flotilla (we overwhelmingly condemn it)

reply to post by mjsmor


I'm afraid I'm at work and cannot access Youtube - I'll do so when I get home, yet I remain skeptical: if you knew the close combat capabilities of those troops you would too....

reply to post by William Marshal


That video does not show the context in which those passengers/crew were fighting back. For all we know, the Israelis could have already killed a couple of people and the rest of the crew/passengers were just fighting for their survival. We already know for a fact that the Israeli boats were firing upon the flotilla before the boarding party arrived.

Let's just say that armed men started killing your fellow passengers/crewmembers after a hostile pirate-like boarding of the vessel. Would you not start fighting those pirates/soldiers who are starting to board your vessel?

--airspoon

reply to post by airspoon


you know spoon, that is what happens when you refuse to cooperate with the military of a country trying to protect it's very exsistence. how will you react when islam comes a bombin' in your hood? i'm through with buying into the peaceful islam jargon, this war has raged for centuries, you believe they won't eliminate you, i have a different view.

Originally posted by airspoon
reply to post by William Marshal

 

Let's just say that armed men started killing your fellow passengers/crewmembers after a hostile pirate-like boarding of the vessel. Would you not start fighting those pirates/soldiers who are starting to board your vessel?

--airspoon

No way... you would run for cover, close the hatch and block it from the inside if you had a shred of common sense....

I agree with the rest of your post though.

[edit on 1-6-2010 by D377MC]

Think about that for a second: armed Israeli Special forces setting foot on the deck after spraying the ship with bullets and ... civilians... seize sticks/pipes or whatever and attack them???

I'd rather believe in Father Xmas if nobody else minds....

reply to post by mjsmor


I don't believe that all of Islam is peaceful, just as I don't believe that all Christians are peaceful. However, I don't believe that you can punish all of Islam for the actions of a few and the same for Christianity. I also believe that Israel is far more hostile than the Palestinians.

I also believe that there is someone in the Bronx right now that would love to put a bullet in my head for nothing more than my wallet. This doesn't mean that I should gather an army and force everyone in the Bronx out on the street for executions until I find that guy who wants to shoot me for my wallet.

--airspoon

From everything I've seen the Israelis acted correctly. Nothing to condemn there. They boarded, and the Israelis got attacked, it was not an attack by the Israelis.

Good grief, they first used paintball guns like it was a game. Can you imagine the US Coast Guard using paintball guns? I doubt that would ever happen.

reply to post by D377MC


i don't doubt their combat/tactical skills, but watch the video when you can and you see GREAT restraint excersised by the commandos in the face of an all out beating. This whole incident was a set up, to make israel look like barbarians, why did the other 5 ships have no problems. the "peace activist" on the miva marmara had weapons that could kill but not what the commandos posessed, a martyrdom strategy.

Originally posted by airspoon
reply to post by breakingdradles

 

.... We are shamed that our religion is being used to commit genocide against the holy people of Islam (Palestinians).

--airspoon

1) There is no such thing as "Palestinians", nor any such place as "Palestine" - they are both fictions created by Nazi Islamists to justify their hatred of Jews.
2) No Jew would refer to the abomination of Islam as "holy"
3) You are either a terribly transparent liar, or a psychiatric and theological nightmare.

At last, a voice of reason (the OP).

Originally posted by William Marshal
reply to post by earthdude

 

Wake up and read something modern. Religeon and poiltics seperate? What planet are you living on?

Once we do figure out that there isnt a seperation of these 2 maybe defending liberty will get a little clearer.

You folks act like the tactic of terror isnt being employed. Terror is wrong. the use of it is wrong and Islam thinks is viable. We will never have peace while Islam has the power to engage in terror. If they do ever succed in destroying Israel do you really think thats the end? They will just say cool its over? wake up. They want to rule over the entire world. they will never stop as long as infidels exist. Choose sides people. There are 2 teams on the field. who do you want to win?

I for one dont want my little girls wearing veils and living under sharia law.

Long live Israel. Long live America and OUR WAY OF LIFE!

I guess I will have to go the group who does not spew nonsense. Long live Palestine! I live in the country known for doing most horrendous acts of terrorism ever know, the USA. You are wrong about Islam, you are just speaking about a few fanatics.

reply to post by airspoon


I'm not in Israel, I'm in Louisiana, and I'm not jewish. Bottom line is, as a part of their religious practice the muslim nations are commited to destroying the nation of isreal. Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Jordan all attacked Israel the moment they declared themselves to be an indepenent State. They have a right to protect themselves, and I encourage them to do so. As a pattern that has repeated itself, each time the palestians are offered a deal that meets their conditions they turn it down and continue to attack. They will not stop. Which is why peace negotiations are a complete waste of time and energy in this region. But don't worry, Israel is the little satan according to the muslim nations, we are the big satan.
Again, these nations are linked by their common goal to destroy Israel and the United States, (or convert all of us). They wish to make us subserviant to their belief system Islam means surrender. Do you recall 9-11-01. I remind you that like-minded people (likeminded to the ones who tried to run the blockade, then attacked the enforcers of the blockade with clubs and knives) boarded four airplanes, murdered the flight crews, then flew them into buildings full of folks like you. These victims had sons, daughters, wives, husbands and parents. How many kids graduate college or get married and look in the crowd for their dad, only to remember they were slaughtered by muslims because they didn't like the way we worship. It is people like you that give them encouragement. So don't give me that "I'm jewish and speak for all jews crap, because you clearly don't".

reply to post by airspoon


Modern day atrocities really didn't start until the US did it in Iraq 2000s. Before that there were some minor incidents, but nothing really legitimate to back your assertions for genocide. As the world decays, times change.

I'd like to simply point out that there was relative peace before the rockets. This was after all that 1980s nonsense. When I say they started it with missiles, I legitimately mean there was a peace that they broke.

War blaming is useless for times before a peace. because that would mean every single nation is a criminal. Was, by definition, is the fault of the aggressor after a time of peace. That would be Hezbollah and Hamas.

It's lovely that now after all they had was destroyed raped and pillaged that they try to be civilized. really, it is. But the fact remains that they chose to be barbarians at the beginning of this all. They could have done it peacefully or through the UN or someone. In the modern day era a few recordings is enough to bring down a British PM. Certainly they could have done it this way if Israel was doing something bad. But they did not. They decided to break peace in the 2000s. What happens after that does not matter because war sucks and has no rules. All that matters is who stopped the peace. And that was not Israel. As of such, every single assault, problem, and desecration is the fault of those who ordered the launch of rockets.

Quite evidently due to the fact that they STILL have not launched anything at Israel, it is logical to assume they are militarily incapable of doing so. Thus, for the time being, if a bunch of idiots get killed for choosing to run a blockade is the cost of peace, I unhappily have to agree with Israel. They brought out the big guns ans showed their war faces. Now there is no more killings afterwards. And I am actually amazed Iran still has not said anything. Thus peace is occurring, the job is done, and war, in all its suckiness, has not grown.

In all my love of individuality, I unfortunately have to state the obvious. At the cost of a few, many more are safe.

Sadly this is the way to peace. Some time in the not too distant future no one will remember this blockade, and suddenly there will be a report of its ending. And then eventually the occupation too, and Israel will slowly rebuild the government there a la US in Iraq. And with nothing left, they will be forced to stop their savage nature and adopt to modern society.


Rome did the same, it worked. Greece did the same, it worked. Egypt did the same, it work. So very very many did the same, and it worked. Humanity sucks for this very reason, but you cannot deny results.

reply to post by earthdude


I could totally invert your statement and change the sides with no sight of difference.

Humanity is universally made of suck. Not one nation on Earth has not committed genocide or some kind of horror. That is why you simply cannot take a side her other than the stronger. Because when both sides are savage morons, the side that is more modern is pretty much the only one to route for. 'fraid Palestine is no better than Saudi Arabia with its modernity.

To view it as a Roman, I'd spend a day year with Visigoth over a Hun any day. At least the Visigoths aren't 100% savage barbarians.

Sadly, that is the only way to view it.

reply to post by airspoon


I'm sure the family of the dead give a damn..

Originally posted by breakingdradles
More and more people are starting to realize that the beautiful religion of Judaism has been hijacked by murderous scum in israel.

More and more real Jews are starting to realize, that "God's Children" would never act that way, no matter how provoked!

No religion is beautiful.


Just thought I'd correct you on that one.

reply to post by Gorman91


I will respectfully differ in my opinion on which side to root for. I think those who are less worldly and less modern are the good guys. Modern societies tend to think thier way is best and most of the time they are wrong. Didn't you see Avatar? Were you rooting for the oppressors?

Originally posted by CaptChaos
reply to post by Target Earth

 

The "little guy"? How about we try pulling the "little guy"s financial aid? Let's try this: Stop the SEVEN MILLION DOLLARS PER DAY that the poor little Israelis get from the US. Don't even give it to the Palestinians either, and let's see what happens. I figure the cowardly devil worshipers who think they are "chosen" would be overrun in a matter of seconds if they had to really fight and not take on kids throwing rocks with machine guns and helicopters. Let's see how their satanic "god" protects them then, you fools.

There is a reason why these vampires have been kicked out of every country in history that they ever tried their blood sucking on. The non devil worshipers always give them the benefit of the doubt, let them in, and let them play their twisted little games, but eventually get sick of it and kick them out. Explain how that has happened hundreds of times, you "chosen ones" .

Remember, they ARE the Pharisees. What did Jesus tell them?

This post claims that Jews are devil worshipers and Vampires is clearly deflamatory and lies, yet the post has not been deleted for the vile crap being spewed.

Israel should be condemmed but the majority of Jews worldwide are NOT Israeli's, Vampires or devil worshippers. In fact, they worship the same God as Christians and Yeshua (Jesus) was in fact a Jew!

I think the things that really make me angry about all this are as follows.

1) And foremost amongst them . Both my grandfathers fought oppression in the second world war, against the nazis. Many British men did the same, but many of them did so because they wanted to protect thier home land,against the fate which had befallen the continent. My grandfathers fought because they were sickened by what had been done by the nazis. They went to war because what was happening was frankly against every fibre of thier morality, and because every cell in thier body demanded action to prevent further atrocity. The efforts they went to , to perform thier duties, and thier experiences ruined both of them mentaly. The carnage, the horror, the sheer inhumanity of what they saw in germany and around the embattled locations they were deployed to ... well it made a mess of thier heads. My mothers father, and my fathers father came home, made babies, and had begun to bring up kids, it was my parents who bore the brunt of the damage those men suffered. My mother and father grew up damaged as a result, and then I came along... Even now the echos of that agony and torment make themselves known in my psychological make up. If those my grandfathers sought to protect, cannot appreciate the effort, and therefore apply themselves to peace and care, instead of destruction and protection, then why the hell should they have bothered considering what it has cost them, and thier children, and thier childrens children?

2)This recent mess takes the cake. I mean I thought it was bad enough that in retalliation for the deaths of 13 Israelis in bottle rocket attacks, the Israeli government ordered the destruction of vital infrastructure,and by either extention or deliberate forethought, the death/injury of thousands of palestinians. But now , moving OUTSIDE thier territory in order to prosecute a "search" that they had no right to perform in international waters, and then KILLING aid workers and protesters?
Just what the hell is UN law for exactly , if not to appropriately admonish and punish such tyranical behaviour? Disgusting .

3) My last problem with this, aside from any smaller issues I might have with the situation is this. Israel have been justifying everything they have ever done wrong (assasination, spying on non terror targets like aid groups, MURDERING innocent civilians with tanks during an illegal occupation, continuing to build on contested land, and general ogrish behaviour) by reminding us of the threat they face every day , just by being where they are. But I happen to know that the so called danger they face is actualy easily within thier power to completely remove. The main danger is from airbourne missile attack, and its a pretty nasty method of terrorising people , this I accept. However, what not so many people know, is that Israel has the technology to intercept any object on a vector which brings it over the border. They have weapons systems ,built inside Israel , which can knock any projectile from a SCUD to a 7.62 round, right out of the sky. If the Israeli government wished it, they could completely insulate themselves from the worst weapons used against them, but they dont , and I bet you are wondering why ? Well its very simple . Being embattled from every side, means they can get away with things that most nations wouldnt. It means they can say "Well what else would you have us do ? We are surrounded by violent extremism on every side" when people question them about war crimes, or building illegal towns, or assasinating people while using british ID or anything the hell else for that matter.

Its even more disgusting because the people of God , should be more respectful of his wishes , and further because it stains the word of every Judao Christian orator around the world. Rather than positioning themselves on the moral high ground, the Israeli government are basicaly digging themsevles a plot in a graveyard reserved for Hitlerites, and xenophobes of every stripe. MAKES ME SICK !

reply to post by earthdude


Honestly, yes. I did not like the natives of Avatar. That whole world, so advanced, so evolved, and the people waste their times in culture and primitive worship.

Sorry, to advance it to be human. To desire primitiveness is to desire stagnation, death, and destruction. No certainly there is a balance, and avatar showed the extremes. But when we talk serious about it, Israel is the better because it is advanced. That doesn't mean you can't be both in the avatar sides. It simply means that I chose the gun over the arrow, or advanced-wise, the microchip over the tree.

And just like in avatar, there is absolutely no right side. No, the natives are not the right side. because they are stagnate. The humans are over consuming polluting asses But I'd chose the humans because I can not be bound by the ways of man, but have the chance to be free ever so slightly more.

Even in the Bible I can see this. Jesus is confronted with the choice of following culture or advancing to freedom. he chose freedom. he could have chose to stagnate and follow the pharisees, but why? When one can be free? Hell yes we going freedom. Screw stagnation.


And indeed even ourselves are not perfectly free. I would hardly call the US a free society anymore. But it can be some time in the future. And the simple fact is that advancement is always better than stagnation. And it is true that in that location in the world, the Muslims there are very stagnate. You go to Dubai or even Turkey and you see better, happier people. Not a bunch of poor slumbs with religion and culture being the dominant factors over freedom and advancement. You need only look at the military of the two to see this. Not happy that is is the best example, but it is. Since 1960, the Israeli military has advanced its own line of development. The Terrorist groups and surrounding nations still use T80s and outdated technology. If they were free, they would update by now. Iran has started to, and woo hoo for that. But they cannot hope to remain a stable nation while advancing and remaining primitive, as the last election brawls show.

The fact is simple. When two satans fight, and I have to chose one, I chose the one that is not listening to Lucifer, but instead is seeking his own goals.