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Gosh, History Channel... you forgot to mention the nano-thermite!!

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posted on May, 31 2010 @ 07:22 PM
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I watched a History Channel special about 9/11 Conspiracy Theories: Fact or Fiction. Before I get into this... I would like to say that, especially being Memorial Day in the U.S., a lot of people died on 9/11 and in the subsequent War on Terror that stemmed from it. I respect the people of this world and am sorry for those who lost family or friends. I persist with 9/11 study because I feel there is a different truth than what we were all shown on TV that day (The Original Story). It was a very sad day for the world and I hope that justice will be answered.

I was disturbed by the History Channel special, backed up by a group of people at Popular Mechanics. People like to stand for something, part of a group, be recognized, and in this special they took many, many opportunities to answer "Cospiracy theorists" with their own "expert" ultimately disproving the conspiracy. It was entirely biased! [I especially liked the fireball of molten airplane bits inside the Pentagon as a reason that a perfectly spherical hole was created... fail.]

One of the main things LEFT OUT of this Fact or Fiction fiasco is the whole issue of explosives being used to take down the towers. Nano-thermite wasn't mentioned, the pool of molten steel wasn't mentioned.

Now since a lot of Americans probably saw this History Channel special last week they will feel the special can be trusted and that the conspiracy theorists are a bunch of loons with too much time on their hands - a further, and very well done, attempt by the US media to discount those of us who gain information from alternative sources. Here's what I chose to do about it.

When a friend comes to you and says "everything was just proven on that history channel special you loser!."

Tell them this...

Molten steel was prevalent in the wreckage of the Twin Towers for FIVE WEEKS after 9/11.
Quote by Mark Loizeaux, president of Controlled Demolition Inc.
This does NOT happen from an office fire with jet fuel added.

High-tech explosive mixtures were found in the dust of the Twin Towers, from numerous locations around the area, and by various sources.
Citation, a peer-reviewed journal: The Open Chemical Physics Journal
The Open Chemical Physics Journal

Tell them you've seen pictures of the high levels of unexplained sulfur, used in explosives and entirely unexplained by industry leaders as to why they'd be found in the wreckage of the Twin Towers.
"FEMA's investigators inferred that a 'liquid eutectic mixture containing primarily iron, oxygen, and sulfur' formed during a "hot corrosion attack on the steel."


And finally, ask your friends WHY the History Channel left out pictures of the Pentagon "After the explosion, but before the collapse"
Seen very clearly on this thread:
Absolute proof: A Pentagon picture montage from start to finish.

The media is against us, treating like the high school nerds group... most people are against us "because our government would never do that"

Don't let them get you down!!!!


The proof is there - hang in there! Justice will come through and someday we will be vindicated (if that part's important to you).


[edit on 31-5-2010 by Thermo Klein]




posted on May, 31 2010 @ 07:36 PM
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Originally posted by Thermo Klein
High-tech explosive mixtures were found in the dust of the Twin Towers, from numerous locations around the area, and by various sources.
Citation, a peer-reviewed journal: The Open Chemical Physics Journal
The Open Chemical Physics Journal


Ooooh, naughty naughty! You not only trying to sneak in that rubbish paper Steven Jones wrote again, you're trying to claim it was peer reviewed when it never was. Jones never gave his material to anyone else to look at, he never gave proper chain of custody to even show it actually came from the WTC area, and he PAID to get this paper published. Heck, Jones doesn't even have any explosives experience so why anyone would believe that such a person could recognize Thermite from chewing gum is an exercise in gullibility in the extreme.

Jeez, Dr. Judy Wood isn't exactly a fountain of credibility with her "lasers from outer space" caims and even she says the whole thermite bit is rubbish. Move along, there's nothing to see here.



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 08:00 PM
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Sadly I think you are wrong. I don't think the truth will come out and this debate will continue indefinitely. Even with two differing "Official" JFK findings we still don't have the "truth." Hell, even with the Iran-Contra controversy most people don't believe the government would ever do anything wrong and its all a conspiracy. EVEN WHEN POLITICIANS DO SOMETHING WRONG RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEIR FACES THEY DEFEND THEM!!!.



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 08:04 PM
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reply to post by GoodOlDave
 


Who is Judy Woods and why did you bring her into the thread??

(Sorry it took so long to reply... had to figure out how to get you off my ignore list
)


This is a peer-reviewed journal, take a look at it before you start throwing out your same old accuzations dave. It was written with cooperation of the Copenhagen University department of Chemistry.



Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe
pp.7-31 (25) Authors: Niels H. Harrit, Jeffrey Farrer, Steven E. Jones, Kevin R. Ryan, Frank M. Legge, Daniel Farnsworth, Gregg Roberts, James R. Gourley, Bradley R. Larsen
doi: 10.2174/1874412500902010007



Abstract
We have discovered distinctive red/gray chips in all the samples we have studied of the dust produced by the destruction of the World Trade Center. Examination of four of these samples, collected from separate sites, is reported in this paper. These red/gray chips show marked similarities in all four samples. One sample was collected by a Manhattan resident about ten minutes after the collapse of the second WTC Tower, two the next day, and a fourth about a week later. The properties of these chips were analyzed using optical microscopy, scanning electron microscopy (SEM), X-ray energy dispersive spectroscopy (XEDS), and differential scanning calorimetry (DSC). The red material contains grains approximately 100 nm across which are largely iron oxide, while aluminum is contained in tiny plate-like structures. Separation of components using methyl ethyl ketone demonstrated that elemental aluminum is present. The iron oxide and aluminum are intimately mixed in the red material. When ignited in a DSC device the chips exhibit large but narrow exotherms occurring at approximately 430 °C, far below the normal ignition temperature for conventional thermite. Numerous iron-rich spheres are clearly observed in the residue following the ignition of these peculiar red/gray chips. The red portion of these chips is found to be an unreacted thermitic material and highly energetic.

Keywords: JScanning electron microscopy, X-ray energy dispersive spectroscopy, Differential scanning calorimetry, DSC analysis, World Trade Center, WTC dust, 9/11, Iron-rich microspheres, Thermite, Super-thermite, Energetic nanocomposites, Nano-thermite

Affiliation: Department of Chemistry, University of Copenhagen, Copenhagen, DK-2100, Denmark.


Originally quoted by good ol dave


why anyone would believe that such a person could recognize Thermite from chewing gum

right... that would be where the electron microscopy, the differential scanning calorimeter, and the DSC analysis come in...

[edit on 31-5-2010 by Thermo Klein]



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 08:13 PM
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reply to ol dave

Oh that Steven Jones!



Jones earned his bachelor's degree in physics, magna cum laude, from Brigham Young University in 1973, and his Ph.D. in physics from Vanderbilt University in 1978. Jones conducted his Ph.D. research at the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center (from 1974 to 1977), and post-doctoral research at Cornell University and the Los Alamos Meson Physics Facility.


You should maybe research a person before you randomly select a name to bash



[edit on 31-5-2010 by Thermo Klein]



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 10:20 PM
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I watched this special on History Channel a few weeks ago. I believe it was a part of a "Conspiracy Marathon". Much of the day was devoted to the Kennedys and 9/11. I was very disappointed with the history channel. I've come to expect better from them. I know the OS is a big hot plate of steaming governmental bs served up on a silver platter. While I do not doubt that thermite or nano-thermite was used in the demolition of the towers I often wonder if perhaps there may have been a test of the kinetic rod (rods from god) weapons systems that are in orbit on that fateful day. From the information I've waded through it seems that this could be a possible explanation. It would also require a relatively small projectile to demolish the buildings when the kinetic forces are taken into consideration. This would leave very little, if any evidence behind. What evidence that may have been left behind would very likely be lost in the debris of the towers, which was sold very quickly to scrappers in japan if I'm not mistaken.



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 10:22 PM
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Well probably the same old thing for most of us

A) You know about this already and have read the facts about nano-thermite/thermate so nothing new.

B) You deny the scientific aspects or validity of the nano-thermite/thermate studies.

C) You randomly throw out unrelated and useless references hoping angrily to derail the thread as if you have borderline personality disorder or are paid by someone to be a jerk.

Anyhow... I was saddened by the History channel's VERY biased approach to 9/11 truth.



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 10:30 PM
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reply to post by Thermo Klein
 


Yah I came across the analysis and conclusions that thermite was used about 8-9 months ago on another conspiracy site I frequent. If you're interested the addy is conspiracyplanet.com they have some useful and insightful stuff from time to time.
And once again, History Channel



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 10:33 PM
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I also saw that pathetic documentary.. It completely skimmed over, or ignored, ALOT of important information.



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 10:36 PM
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reply to post by azrael36
 


Thanks. I believe it's been covered relatively well I just wanted to post it here now because of that horrible History Channel special. It really is propoganda - telling people what to believe and giving them reason to believe it. Ironic and sad they never mentioned some of the key aspects that sites like AE911Truth.org are covering and some of the scientific aspects of this rather than ONE guy who believes their side.



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 10:54 PM
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reply to post by Thermo Klein
 


Maybe they did not talk about it because that special was made a while ago, before the goofy ideas about "nano thermite" were created?



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 11:27 PM
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Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by Thermo Klein
High-tech explosive mixtures were found in the dust of the Twin Towers, from numerous locations around the area, and by various sources.
Citation, a peer-reviewed journal: The Open Chemical Physics Journal
The Open Chemical Physics Journal


Ooooh, naughty naughty! You not only trying to sneak in that rubbish paper Steven Jones wrote again, you're trying to claim it was peer reviewed when it never was. Jones never gave his material to anyone else to look at, he never gave proper chain of custody to even show it actually came from the WTC area, and he PAID to get this paper published. Heck, Jones doesn't even have any explosives experience so why anyone would believe that such a person could recognize Thermite from chewing gum is an exercise in gullibility in the extreme.



Didn't a Bentham Editor resign over that crappy paper? Even though Bentham is a for profit, open-access vanity journal, apparently at least one of the editors protested by quitting.

And in other Bentham Journal news, a hoax paper filled with random gibberish cleared the "peer review" process and was published!

Any chance of that happening at the Journal Of Engineering Mechanics?

(quick google search)

didn't think so....try again truthers!



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 11:42 PM
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reply to post by 767doctor
 


Like the new name - welcome back...

So someone faked a paper and it got through; that in no way discounts every other scientific journal that HAS been peer-reviewed by this company. The article I posted is by 7 people and contains higly technical readings about what was found in the dust and rubble.

I forgot how stressful these 9/11 threads can be when some people twist the most obscure little tidbits into a full-fledged discount of the source - try addressing the actual articles and people being discussed in the thread.



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 01:13 AM
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Originally posted by Thermo Klein

So someone faked a paper and it got through; that in no way discounts every other scientific journal that HAS been peer-reviewed by this company. The article I posted is by 7 people and contains higly technical readings about what was found in the dust and rubble.

No, it doesn't discount every single paper published by Bentham. I'm sure most papers were actually reviewed by competent editors. But, this journals credibility has been damaged severely by the hoax paper, so much so that I'd hesitate to cite any paper published by Bentham and Bentham alone.



I forgot how stressful these 9/11 threads can be when some people twist the most obscure little tidbits into a full-fledged discount of the source - try addressing the actual articles and people being discussed in the thread.

I hate to burst you bubble, but this sidebar is very much on-topic. You are the one who brought up the paper in the OP. Its only fair to point out that it may not be as credibly published as you may think.

As for the content of the paper, its main shortcomings are the 'chain of custody' of the samples(there was none), lack of a proper control group; ie known samples from fly ash and paint chips(which also contain chromium, magnesium, and zinc), as well as the fact that the samples closely matched that of ordinary red primer in a spectrograph - this fact wasn't even considered in the paper. Jones could have elected to take the samples to independent experts for analysis, but he preferred not to, understandably. Oh and iron rich microspheres is not a remarkable discovery at all(they are found in ordinary household dust, along with elemental chromium, zinc and manganese). The clincher was that the samples energy content was double that of thermite. Can't very well be thermite, can it?

BTW - You have me confused with someone else. I'll admit my writing style is rather 'unique'...but I have only ever had one account here.



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 01:15 AM
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WOW! Just how many trolls are needed to screw in a light bulb?

Don't give it a second thought Thermo.

I think it's obvious that it's mostly trolls who are left still clicking on these stories. Everyone else already knows the truth, and need no further convincing; to the point they decide they need not enter a thread whose topic is one that they've become accustomed to having shills, trolls and troublemakers throughout...waxing and waning and tantrumpeting their lines with "perfect" (lawl) rehearse and/or violent head-shaking "NO! It can't be's!"

Again, we've won the only battle winnable in the 9/11 topic. The one that matters far more, in fact. Awareness! The trolls might as well be colored in black and white, for all the color they bring to the topic. If they're still getting paid...they're getting paid for absolutely nothing...and it's obvious they all know it.

This horse is long dead, and the History Channel's take on things is clearly colored the same as everything else on the boob tube. The only thing left on TV worth anything at all, is the distractions we need (when we need them) and our local weather stations when history walks all over us...well, maybe PBS


EDIT: Don't feed the trolls.


[edit on 1-6-2010 by lagnar]



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 01:26 AM
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Originally posted by lagnar
WOW! Just how many trolls are needed to screw in a light bulb?

Don't give it a second thought Thermo.

I think it's obvious that it's mostly trolls who are left still clicking on these stories. Everyone else already knows the truth, and need no further convincing; to the point they decide they need not enter a thread whose topic is one that they've become accustomed to having shills, trolls and troublemakers throughout...waxing and waning and tantrumpeting their lines with "perfect" (lawl) rehearse and/or violent head-shaking "NO! It can't be's!"

Again, we've won the only battle winnable in the 9/11 topic. The one that matters far more, in fact. Awareness! The trolls might as well be colored in black and white, for all the color they bring to the topic. If they're still getting paid...they're getting paid for absolutely nothing...and it's obvious they all know it.

This horse is long dead, and the History Channel's take on things is clearly colored the same as everything else on the boob tube. The only thing left on TV worth anything at all, is the distractions we need (when we need them) and our local weather stations when history walks all over us...well, maybe PBS


EDIT: Don't feed the trolls.


[edit on 1-6-2010 by lagnar]


So the verdict is unanimous. The History Channel is now officially part of the 9/11 coverup. It's getting out of control, don't you guys think? All the media, all goverment agencies, the airlines, the entire structural engineering profession(save for those few brave, and typically unemployed, souls at AE911). At what point does this coverup get uncomfortably big for truthers? When everyone else except truthers are "in on it"?



[edit on 1-6-2010 by 767doctor]



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 07:25 AM
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reply to post by lagnar
 


Haha! Brilliant. So you've achieved nothing and changed nothing, but that's okay, you've won anyway because your task was impossible to begin with! Priceless.



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 08:29 AM
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Originally posted by 767Doctor
Didn't a Bentham Editor resign over that crappy paper? Even though Bentham is a for profit, open-access vanity journal, apparently at least one of the editors protested by quitting.


It's not only *a* editor, but *the* editor: editor in chief Professor Marie-Paule Pileni. The article was published without her consent or knowledge, and once she found out the journal published this drivel she resigned in disgust becuase she didn't want her name associated with that crackpot. She saw right away that it had nothing to do with actual science and everythign to do with advancing an ulterior political agenda:

"I can not accept that the issue is put in my journal. The article is not about physical chemistry or chemical physics, and I could well believe that there is a political point of view behind the publication. If anyone had asked me, I would say that the article should never have been published in this journal." -Editor in chief Professor Marie-Paule Pileni

Editor in Chief resigns over Steven Jones' report

I think the editor in chief of a journal of science would know whos full of crap and who is not. Jones has no credibility whatsoever, and these conspiracy theorists have to WANT to believe in these conspiracy stories, to take his paranoid nonsense serously. Incredible.

[edit on 1-6-2010 by GoodOlDave]



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 08:48 AM
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Originally posted by Thermo Klein
(Sorry it took so long to reply... had to figure out how to get you off my ignore list
)


The truth never needs to run and hide from falsehoods. It's always falsehoods that have to run and hide from the truth. This is why I have never found the need to put anyone on my ignore list.



This is a peer-reviewed journal, take a look at it before you start throwing out your same old accuzations dave. It was written with cooperation of the Copenhagen University department of Chemistry.


No it is NOT a peer reviewed journal. Jones paid to have that report published. His article was never peer reviewed as he has never given his samples to anyone else to analyze, nor can he document that it did in fact come from the WTC site, nor can he document that it hadn't been contaminated by outside materials, nor can he even document the materials were alien to the materials normally found in the WTC structure.

Jeez, did you ever even READ the thing? It's something a high school kid would have written. For one thing, there's no such word as "thermitic".



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 11:37 AM
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reply to post by GoodOlDave
 


Actually I think a high school chem teacher would cringe at the bloopers in this "paper" by Jones.

I do not see how someone who runs the DSC in air, sees the object combust, and thinks that its possibly thermite. Gee Jones, dont you know thermite burns without oxygen? How about running THAT test FIRST? But see he didnt!



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