Soaring costs force Canada to reassess health model

Soaring costs force Canada to reassess health model

news.yahoo.com

Pressured by an aging population and the need to rein in budget deficits, Canada's provinces are taking tough measures to curb healthcare costs, a trend that could erode the principles of the popular state-funded system.

Ontario, Canada's most populous province, kicked off a fierce battle with drug companies and pharmacies when it said earlier this year it would halve generic drug prices and eliminate "incentive fees" to generic drug manufacturers.

(visit the link for the full news article)

In some ways the Canadian debate is the mirror image of discussions going on in the United States.

Canada, fretting over budget strains, wants to prune its system, while the United States, worrying about an army of uninsured, aims to create a state-backed safety net.

Healthcare in Canada is delivered through a publicly funded system, which covers all "medically necessary" hospital and physician care and curbs the role of private medicine. It ate up about 40 percent of provincial budgets, or some C$183 billion ($174 billion) last year.

I've always loved my "free" healthcare. So why cut it? We've all paid into it and so should receive the best healthcare. Why should I pay into healthcae for everything excluding hip surgery when hip surgery is all I need. It was a good idea when the baby boomers were giving them big bucks, but when the baby boomers need the health system, they plan on bailing out and introducing privatized healthcare.

The States want to be more like us and we want to be more like the States...

news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

And now you know EXACTLY why wise people in the U.S. are against any part of obamacare - ESPECIALLY any parts based on the canadian model, or where the canadian model was used as a shill for why the U.S. should adopt that form of socialism.

Time to hear from all the canadians saying, "Our healthcare system is great, eh". Well, maybe it was at the start, but let's see what rising costs and budget cuts do to your system. The same major concern many of us in the U.S. had over obamacare.

It's a nice idea for a country to have "free" healthcare for its' citizens, but unfortunately it just doesn't work if you figure how much money it takes to actually do it. Gov't run healthcare is basically a form of socialism, and socialism has never and will never work, so I'm not too suprised to see this.

I have mentioned a few times on the board that socialized medicine just leads to more costly medicine.

When individuals have access to medicine, you will have plenty of patients looking to abuse the system and leaving the good ones out to dry. And in socialized medicine, providers take the biggest cut. That is why in such practices you will see a scarcity of Physicians, Facilities, & resources.

The system is not the problem.

It's the organization of the system, the structure that is the problem in Canada.

We simply need to reduce costs by reducing the ammount of emergency room visits for stupid things, like colds or the regular flu.

As we do have "free" healthcare, people do take somewhat advantage by going to the hospitals for any little thing, when there are plenty of over the counter/natural remedies that can be used.

This is what we need to do is encourage the populace to stop depending so heavily on the system for small things.

Norway did it, and so will we.

Don't worry, we will never move to a private system, it's against Canadian values.

Perhaps a hybrid system might come to fruition in the next 15 years..

Perhaps...

~Keeper

Do you know why universal public health care use to be good? Because it was actually funded and nationalized. Since the late '70s the world has entered a period of massive privatization, liberalization and internationalism known simply as the most corrupt system on the planet, Neoliberalism.

No country has been able to resist the influences of neoliberalism unless they want to become unemployed and impoverished. Just look at the Labour Party in the UK which turned away from Social democracy/Democratic socialism to adopt more Third Way/Neoliberal policies over the past 3 decades. And look what happened to them, they’re in serious trouble. Look at the Social Democratic Party of Germany, they abandoned Social democracy for Third Way/Neoliberalism; don't believe me, just look at Agenda 2010 by the SDP. That is why The Left party in Germany has gained so much because the SDP has refused to align themselves with classical socialists.

All of the center-left parties of the world that espouse Social Democracy turned away from it to adopt Third Way/Neoliberalism and it has sent them all into the minority. Now the far-left parties are making gains where the Center-left use to dominate.

Just look at statistics, remember the golden days(age) of economics from the '50s to the early '70s? Well at that time was the use of Keynesian economics in all western nations and our economy(USA) grew by 20% in some years.

Neoliberalism has destroyed the world by taking money away from previously funded systems that have become underfunded since Neoliberalism forces taxes to drop and mass privatization to compete on the international stage. If you refuse to liberalize, you lose jobs and your economy sinks as they send your jobs to third world nations which causes more strain on the system which becomes underfunded. The only way to stop the massive debt burden that comes from neoliberalism and free trade is either end the welfare state or stop free trade/neoliberalism.

I think we have come to that point where the left is pissed at the major center-left parties which have moved so far right and abandoned their base to include business people and corporate. In order for the left to survive they must return to Keynesian and Socialist policies and abandon Neoliberalism which has dragged us all into the furnace.

[edit on 5/31/10 by Misoir]

reply to post by tothetenthpower


I'm sorry I don't like the Idea of being told that I can't go to the hospital, because I have the "Regular Flu". Influenza is one of the greatest killers of all time. thousands of people die every year of the "Regular Flu" That sounds a lot like "Death Panels" to me.
I don't like the idea of Some penny pinching government employee, delegating what services I can receive.
I also don't want to make a hospital trip a 9 hour ordeal. Nationalized health care is a great system unless you get sick, and don't mind waiting.

Canada is not the going to be the only one with issues. The vaunted systems in Europe are also having a hard time.

I have already see US goverment run healthcare. Just ask any VETeran what they think of the VA system.

Ill pass

Like Ron Paul said, and Im paraphrasing here, "As a doctor you can't force me to give away my services for free." I agree with that statement 100%. We don't live in tribes, and there are no village elders or community doctors. Unfortunately this is the world we live in, we can't all go about bitching about things that don't go our way. Instead of free health care we should've focused on lowering inflated costs which are the real culprit in this mess.

The real problem that Canadian health care is facing is the ridiculous cost of drugs. Big pharma is paying off doctors to recommend expensive brand name drugs when there are cheaper generic brands available that are just as effective.

The only flaw with our health care model is that the pharma companies are abusing it.

Though Canada has some issues with the medical system and the fact they are fighting to keep costs down isn't necessarily a bad thing in as much as they realize the mounting cost and are pushing to keep costs down, Americans seem to worry about the bill after they have gone tits up and can't see even the slighted ray of hope.

What I take from this article and the system in general is it takes constant vigilance to manage costs and MAKE the pharmaceutical companies play nice!

But since this isn't a jump on the Canadians (sarcastic) post and in defense of a system really designed to help people keep some dignity in regards to medical problems, unlike the much more human (also sarcastic) Americans make money from you coming and going attitude. this post will die ......

There should be something said about countries who send there people off to war and or peace missions and then deny them the simplest respect to keep them healthy on there return.

All hale the American system, fight for your country just don't loose your job or get sick!!!

[edit on 1-6-2010 by svpwizard]

reply to post by tothetenthpower

We simply need to reduce costs by reducing the ammount of emergency room visits for stupid things, like colds or the regular flu.

As we do have "free" healthcare, people do take somewhat advantage by going to the hospitals for any little thing, when there are plenty of over the counter/natural remedies that can be used.

Are they really taking advantage of the system, or are they frorced to go to the emergency room because the wait for a doctor's appointment is far too long ?

True a trip to the emergency room for a cold seems like taking advantage, but the flu can be life threatening, especially for those with chronic diseases like asthma. If an asthmatic gets the flu and is told they can't get an appointment with their regular doctor for two weeks they may have no choice but to go to the emergency room.

reply to post by chise61


Yeh.... long times to see a doctor, just like in the states depending on how busy he is it could be a week or two to get in, Ohhhhhh the humanity of it!!

my doctor here in BC takes on average a week to get in, or if its an emergency I can sneak in that day or next. and more emergency and I need the hospital anyway!

Well don't a good amount of doctors move down to the US anyways... Maybe a bit more privitization is the way to go, in order to make more doctors available.