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Israel: Love 'em or Hate 'em, There Are Always Two Sides To Every Story

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posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 08:22 AM
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posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 08:47 AM
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reply to post by whoshotJR
 


Its sad that this "Chess Game" that you call it requires the killing of aid workers. I wasn't there, but from what i read the violence began when Israel boarded the ship in International Waters. Israel brought weapons on board to enforce a law they had no right to enforce (in international waters), then try to say they were "defending themselves"?

If someone broke into my home i would beat them with pipes and sticks, and i would take their own gun from their own hand and i would shoot them, to protect my life, protect my family and my valuables.

I hear "Israel thought they were smuggling arms and weapons"....no proof of this exists, they assumed it and people died because of it.

Its inexcusable. They boarded a ship in international waters like pirates do, then complained when the people being invaded defended themselves. Even after all that they still defend themselves saying the organizers are known Terrorist Sympathizers.

Gimme a freakin break...they were trying to call Israels bluff and Israel proved they werent bluffing. In the end these "organizers/terrorist supporters" got exactly what they wanted, proof Israel will use any means, including illegal, to get what they want.

I for one am tired of it, both sides have committed crimes and atrocities and for me its coming to a point where i could care less about either side. I used to care, but now i realize this is an ancient war that will never end because of political and religious ideals.

Israel and Palestine both like to "claim" their god's people, yet they act like their the Devils Children. Lets just call a spade a spade, shall we?



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 08:53 AM
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Thank you for this post of reason. Some people's minds are made up and they don't want to be confused with the facts.
Israel is a new born nation (1947) and was born in the middle of other nations that do not want them there. It is literally surrounded by enemies.
Lets not forget that the blockade has been in place since 2007 and Gaza receives aid on a regular basis. So why did this go so badly. Simple, it was designed to put Israel in a bad light.
The middle east has been in turmoil for litterally thousands of years. And for thousands of years there have been thousands of opinions coming down on one side or the other. My opinion and yours are nothing special. It amazes me how every US president wants to have peace in the middle east as their legacy. It's just not going to happen.
I am not a very good christian. But I do believe that Israel is God's chosen people. I know that I will be slammed for that little statement and that is fine. You either believe or you don't and there is nothing I can say to change your mind. The fact that Israel is hated by so many goes right in line with Biblical prophecy. Israel will not go away. It may get smaller for a time, it may be beaten down for a time but it will never be wiped off the face of the earth.
seeashrink



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 08:54 AM
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Lets play a little game shall we.

Lets replace the name of "Isreal" on the map with the name and people of any other country.

Now lets replace all the rhetoric with that new country name.

Neighbor next door promises the destruction of -insert country name here-. Said neighbor fires rockets into -insert country name here-.

Hmm. I wonder what Americans would do if they were the -insert country name here-?

Oh wait, I know, we would of demanded our goverment go in, kick major butt and insure that those people never get armed with more then Nerf weapons in the future.

The end.

LOL, the middle east problem would of been fixed long ago if American blood was getting spilled, we would of annexed the whole darn region!



[edit on 1-6-2010 by Helmkat]



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 08:54 AM
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reply to post by funkmob_starchild
 


read the bible, the original Israel was born drenched in blood, the blood of the people who lived there before the Israelis arrived.
Even slaughtering their own allies.



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 09:06 AM
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Well, some brainwashed fools on this board actually support the aid flotilla on this? They compare what Israel did to Pirates or home invaders? No. What you have is a legitimate inspection by a navy on a boat approaching a war zone. The criminals on the boat attacked armed soldiers. What happened was the equivalent of the passengers in a car stopped for speeding attacking a patrol officer.

Israel is at war with Islam. Islam here was spoiling for a fight.


Welcome to the Apocalypse.



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 09:46 AM
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Originally posted by EspyderMan
If someone broke into my home i would beat them with pipes and sticks, and i would take their own gun from their own hand and i would shoot them, to protect my life, protect my family and my valuables.


Except that the two situations aren't all that similar. It didn't happen in someone's home, nor did it involve a criminal or criminal organization. Instead, it happened in open waters and involved an internationally recognized navy that overstepped its authority.

This situation would be as if a sheriff's deputy from county B stopped you while you were driving in county A. That sheriff's deputy is acting outside his jurisdiction, no question. Still, I doubt anyone here would argue that a person should react the way these 'humanitarians' did.



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 09:49 AM
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reply to post by ntech
 


Wow, your way off. Not to pick on you specifically or anything but your statement is farce.
This was not a legal search or seizure. This was done illegally and was condemned by the UN and many other countries.

So because they are Israelites they can get away with murder? They are the chosen people, according to whom exactly and where is the proof they are chosen? All we got is a book saying they are and we cant be sure they speak of the same peoples as the bible is not a source of proof, but more a source of feeding propaganda for wars.

A country raided a boat in international waters, people were killed and jailed. The world believes its wrong. How anyone can debate this, is astounding to say the least.

Im not saying Israel is the devil or should be condemned, what i am saying is they committed a crime and deserve to pay. Im all for them protecting themselves, but not by breaking international laws and not bey killing innocent people/aid workers.

They could of just as easily blocked the boat from hitting shore without killing people or jailing them, but they went to an extreme, now they should learn a lesson from it. Hopefully when this kind of thing happens again they will be smarter and more considerate of human lives.

vor78, i understand my example is not perfect, but my point was if your being invaded on a boat, house, apartment, castle, whatever, you will defend yourself and you have the right to do so. Israel claiming they became violent which led to the death by Israeli hands is all Israels fault.
Had they not overstepped their boundaries this would not have happened.

[edit on 1-6-2010 by EspyderMan]



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 09:51 AM
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They were in INTERNATIONAL waters and Israel's attack wasn't backed by INTERNATIONAL LAWS. There is no way to twist this in a way that doesn't make the Israeli government look like the predator. Netanjahu is the 2nd reincarnation of Hitler imo.



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 09:52 AM
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reply to post by Helmkat
 


In order to understand the complex dynamics of the Isreali - Palestinian relation you need to look at it from beyond a 5th graders level. If you want to draw a comparison, compare it to the Native Americans and western settlers.

Foreign body came to a land and used force to remove the original occupants of the land. Original occupants resisted, eventually being overwhelmed and placed in small reservations.

The situation is multi-layered and in murky waters. Palestine's actions are based on terrorist tactics, but Israel should not be there in the first place. In the end of the day there are only two solutions: assimilation or annihilation.



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 10:02 AM
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reply to post by WolfofWar
 


Do you really think if America was in the same situation as Isreal we would care one whit about the nuances of the situation? If those rockets were landing on American soil all the diplomatic chitter chatter would be occuring -after- all the RPGs had been replaced with super soakers.



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 10:04 AM
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Originally posted by EspyderMan
if your being invaded on a boat, house, apartment, castle, whatever, you will defend yourself and you have the right to do so.


And that's where I differ with you. A violent reaction isn't always the proper response. Had the Israelis not boarded the ship, those people wouldn't be dead. Had the crew not responded violently to the boarding, they probably wouldn't be dead in that case, either. Both sides are to blame for the escalation to deadly force, in my opinion.



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 10:07 AM
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They supposedly knew that the people on the ship had connections to Al-Quaeda, and yet they sent soldiers in with paintball guns at first. Would you want to send troops into supposed terrorist hands without an M-16 or M-4, or MP5?

The Israeli government mocks the world and the world still finds ways to defend them.



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 10:09 AM
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reply to post by Helmkat
 


We already led by example on what we would do. We invaded, murdered, massacred, annihilated. What is making people upset about Israel is because it's Lil' America. It's the demon we created, and it scares us because it shows us the side of America that we forgot about.



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 10:19 AM
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So Israel boards the other 5 ships in the flotilla with no incidents but for some reason decide to open fire indiscriminately on the 6th one as they board? It doesn't add up, and the video showing the mob pounce on the soldiers as they landed seem to point to the mob acting violently which provoke the deadly response from the commandos.

The 6th ship knew the Israelis had boarded the other ships without problems, they chose to act violently toward the commandos boarding.



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 10:32 AM
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Originally posted by VoidInMind
Dont try to justify the killing of civillians, regardless of how many sides there is to a story. PERIOD. There are other ways to deal with unarmed ships.

Your name says it all.
If an unarmed person attacks me personaly I will respond with as much force as I can, if this turns out to be deadly force, well I'm sorry he shouldn't have attacked me.
Armed with knives and metal pipes does not constitute un-armed.



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 10:52 AM
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Originally posted by RedmoonMWC

Originally posted by VoidInMind
Dont try to justify the killing of civillians, regardless of how many sides there is to a story. PERIOD. There are other ways to deal with unarmed ships.

Your name says it all.
If an unarmed person attacks me personaly I will respond with as much force as I can, if this turns out to be deadly force, well I'm sorry he shouldn't have attacked me.
Armed with knives and metal pipes does not constitute un-armed.


Wait in this scenario are you the Israeli soldiers or the people on the ship?



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 10:56 AM
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reply to post by WolfofWar
 


Forgot about? Nobody has forgotten, why else would we be doing what we are doing around the world?



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by pavil
So Israel boards the other 5 ships in the flotilla with no incidents but for some reason decide to open fire indiscriminately on the 6th one as they board? It doesn't add up, and the video showing the mob pounce on the soldiers as they landed seem to point to the mob acting violently which provoke the deadly response from the commandos.

The 6th ship knew the Israelis had boarded the other ships without problems, they chose to act violently toward the commandos boarding.


Just because the people in the other 5 boats were too scared to defend themselves against an illegal raid, doesn't mean that the people on the 6th boat were wrong to defend themselves.

If 5 houses get robbed, and the people are too scared to act against the robbers; does that mean the 6th should do the same?

The point is that the people did no wrong by defending themselves, its the Israhellis that were comitting the crime by ILLEGALLY boarding the ship. The owners of the ship had every right to defend themselves.



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 11:32 AM
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Just a quick history lesson for the tragically ill-informed here posting about things they know nothing about:

The "Palestinian" is not actually a nationality. It's simply a referenced used for those people who live in the region referred to as Palestine.

In the early 1920's the Arab nations petitioned the League of Nations to limit Jewish repatriation to Jerusalem because they feared of political power shifting should too many Jews show up.

Because the Jews were fleeing oppression in Europe they were trying to immigrate to Jerusalem. Quick quote:



The Patria (also called "Patra") contained immigrants offloaded from three other ships, for transshipment to the island of Mauritius. To prevent transshipment, the Haganah placed a small explosive charge on the ship on November 25, 1940. They thought the charge would damage the engines. Instead, the ship sank, and over 250 lives were lost. A few weeks later, the SS Bulgaria docked in Haifa with 350 Jewish refugees and was ordered to return to Bulgaria. The Bulgaria capsized in the Turkish straits, killing 280. The Struma, a vessel that had left Constanta in Rumania with about 769 refugees, got to Istanbul on December 16, 1941. There, it was forced to undergo repairs of its engine and leaking hull. The Turks would not grant the refugees sanctuary. The British would not approve transshipment to Mauritius or entry to Palestine. On February 24, 1942, the Turks ordered the Struma out of the harbor. It sank with the loss of 428 men, 269 women and 70 children.
- brief history of palestine and israel

On May 14, 1948, the Jews proclaimed the independent State of Israel. In following this neighboring Arab nations invaded Palestine and Israel.

Egyptians used tanks, artillery, armor and aircraft (which Israel did not have) cut off the entire Negev and occupied parts of the land that had been allocated to the Jewish state. Arab Legion blocked convoys to besieged Jewish Jerusalem from its fortified positions in Latroun.

June of 1948 a cease fire was declared. Israel reorganized and fortified themselves. Month's later after the ceasefire expired, Israel took the fight to them and cut a swath through Arab held territories.

The Arab countries refused to sign a permanent peace treaty with Israel. Consequently, the borders of Israel established by the armistice commission never received de jure (legal) international recognition.

The UN then established the borders of Israel but Arab nations would not recognize them and hence Israel only allowed back a small number of war refugees per the UN borders who would become the Palestinians.

Tensions increased and in 1967 Jordan, Egypt, Syria, and Iraq - backed by Soviet military equipment - signed defense pacts and built up their forces on the borders of Israel. They began issue "Israel must be wiped of the face of the earth" rhetoric and the IDF uncovered the plan code named "operation Dawn". In response Israel attacked Egypt's forces on their border on June 5th of 1967 and the six day war started.

It ended with Israel now occupying the Golan Heights and portions of the West bank (the area that the Arab alliance had used to station their troops for the build up).

This brought in about 1 million more Palestinians into the Israeli borders. On June 19, 1967, Israel offered Egypt and Syria return of the Sinai Peninsula and Golan Heights for a peace settlement to be negotiated directly. They refused the offer as well as any future negotiations.

The PLO (formed in 1964) was built under the charter of destroying Israel - and could now operate without the constraints of Arab nations because ALL of Palestine was under Israeli control.

While the Arabs would not sign peace treaties - Jews continued to settle in the occupied territories and further complicated the issue.

[edit on 1-6-2010 by gncnew]



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