Turkish Navy will Escort aid to Gaza

I seriously doubt that Turkey will provide any military escorts for the next flotilla. Israel will defend itself, regardless. I find it hard to believe that Turkey would do something that foolish. It could only lead to potential violence, and the eventual loss of Turkeys NATO membership.

Hamas has fired thousands of rockets into Israel since they took control of Gaza. I seriously doubt if Israel will back down. The next ship, or ships, if there even is one, will be searched by the Israeli's, and if no weapons or contraband are found, the vessel('s) will be allowed to continue.

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni
Love the Turkish stand so far!

Israel wont dare an open attack on a turkish fleet... that would mean an attack on NATO. Question is... if they do attack turkey, what will the US as a NATO member do?

I wonder what Georgia would think about that when NATO let the Russians manhandle them in their own country?

Check out these accounts.

www.guardian.co.uk...

"They said we were terrorists – it was absurd. They came into the part where the women were, lots and lots of them, dressed in black and with gigantic weapons as if they were in a war. They confiscated all of our telephones and all of our luggage and took everything out of the bags and put it on the floor."

"We expected them to shoot people in the legs, to shoot in the air, just to scare people, but they were direct," she said, in a separate interview with the Folha de São Paulo newspaper. "Some of them shot in the passengers' heads. Many people were murdered – it was unimaginable."

Originally posted by gortex
reply to post by NecromancerYHVH

 

As to Escalation I don't think Turkey has anything technologically compared to Israel

The Turkish Army is one of the largest standing armies in the world and the second largest army of NATO.
The Army can conduct air assault operations with a lift capability of up to six battalions at a time, day and night.
The Turkish Navy has historically been one of the largest sea powers of the Mediterranean.
Submarines can individually navigate up to 28,000 km and return back to their home bases.
The Turkish Navy has around 51,000 active personnel
The Turkish Gendarmerie has around 100,000 active personnel and 50,000 reserves
The Turkish Air Force is one of the oldest air forces in the world and operates one of the largest combat aircraft fleets of NATO
Not a soft touch by any means

en.wikipedia.org...

they are also one of the toughest and well trained army next to the Switzerland army. I remember hearing stories in the korean war that they were brutal to the chinese.

mt!

[edit on 1-6-2010 by dragnet53]

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by bigyin

 

As for Israel and Palestine... don't give me the crap that the Palestinians are the victims when there have been many Israeli people, including entire families murdered by Palestinian terrorists with the backing of HAMAS, and the Palestinian authorities which advocates violence against Israel...

There could have been peace in the ME for a long time... several times Palestine was given the chance to have their own nation/state ONLY IF they accepted the existence of Israel, but the Palestinian authority, HAMAS and other Palestinian terrorists do not want for Israel to exist...

I get tired of the claims that the Palestinians are the only victims when Palestinian terrorists have murdered even entire Israeli families like Tali Hatuel, and all of her daughters.

May 2, 2004 - Tali Hatuel, 34, and her daughters - Hila, 11, Hadar, 9, Roni, 7, and Merav, 2 - of Katif in the Gaza Strip were killed when two Palestinian terrorists fired on an Israeli car at the entrance to the Gaza Strip settlement bloc of Gush Katif.

Tali Hatuel and her four daughters were killed when two Palestinian terrorists fired on an Israeli car at the entrance to the Gaza Strip settlement bloc of Gush Katif. They were on their way to campaign against Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's disengagement plan. Their white Citroen station wagon spun off the road after the initial shooting, then the attackers approached the vehicle and shot the occupants dead at close range. The Hatuels' car was riddled with bullets, and the carpet inside was stained with blood. The girls were killed hugging one another. On the car was a bumper sticker saying, "Uprooting the settlements, victory for terror."

www.mfa.gov.il...

Both sides have committed atrocities, the only difference is that Palestinian terrorists, HAMAS, Hezbollah etc use their own people as shields, and hide among civilians on purpose to paint Israel as the aggressor, and as evil...

BTW, if you had bothered to read my response you would have seen that I called for both nations to be able to co-exist...but the Palestinian terrorists, which includes the Palestinian authorities, HAMAS, Hezbollah, etc, do not want Israel to exist at all...

[edit on 31-5-2010 by ElectricUniverse]

That is called Asymmetrical Warfare. Israel has a modern, first world army. The Palestinians would be routed if they attacked the Israeli Military directly. Those tactics are extremely similar to the tactics used by the terrorists the USA engages.

"Uprooting the settlements, victory for terror."

So this family was on it's way to protest the relocation of Israeli citizens from Palestinian territory. Palestinian "terrorists" killed military and civilian personnel that actively supported the taking of Palestinian territory. Both the Israelis and Palestinians believe they are in a state of Total War. Any number of treaties, agreements, accords, or conventions cannot change the fact that there is nothing dirty in war. To emphasize, I will state it again: There is nothing dirty in war. Did this family deserve to die? No. But the parent most certainly should have known the risks. Bringing children into a hostile area is irresponsible.

There could also be peace in the ME if Israel relocated. Muslims do not deny Israel's right to exist. They simply deny that right in the ME. An understanding of Muslim history/culture would explain why they believe that. I am not saying it makes sense, but it is what they believe. Affronting the beliefs of a billion plus will easily cause violence. But hey, they are only Muslim, so who cares, right?

Originally posted by SiKFury

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni
Love the Turkish stand so far!

Israel wont dare an open attack on a turkish fleet... that would mean an attack on NATO. Question is... if they do attack turkey, what will the US as a NATO member do?

I wonder what Georgia would think about that when NATO let the Russians manhandle them in their own country?

I missed the point. Neither Georgia or Russia are NATO members... (peace partnership is not "membership")

Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth
I seriously doubt that Turkey will provide any military escorts for the next flotilla.

Turkish navy 'to back next convoy' following Gaza flotilla raid

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk...

1:02 AM on 2nd June 2010

Originally posted by dragnet53

Originally posted by gortex
reply to post by NecromancerYHVH

 

As to Escalation I don't think Turkey has anything technologically compared to Israel

The Turkish Army is one of the largest standing armies in the world and the second largest army of NATO.
The Army can conduct air assault operations with a lift capability of up to six battalions at a time, day and night.
The Turkish Navy has historically been one of the largest sea powers of the Mediterranean.
Submarines can individually navigate up to 28,000 km and return back to their home bases.
The Turkish Navy has around 51,000 active personnel
The Turkish Gendarmerie has around 100,000 active personnel and 50,000 reserves
The Turkish Air Force is one of the oldest air forces in the world and operates one of the largest combat aircraft fleets of NATO
Not a soft touch by any means

en.wikipedia.org...

they are also one of the toughest and well trained army next to the Switzerland army. I remember hearing stories in the korean war that they were brutal to the chinese.

I can add more to this..

Turkey has over 400 state of the art combat aircraft.
Over 1 million active and reserve infantry
Over 2000 M60 main battle tanks and that's not including the German, South Korean, and Saber Mark 3 tanks.

Turkey's navy would make short work of Israel's coast guard fleet. This navy is well stocked with frigates, corvettes, and submarines.

Israel would have to rely on it's airforce should push come to shove. But the 400+ Turkish air force (the bulk of which are F16s) would not allow Israel to have an easy time of it.

When Turkey was a very close US ally, they took full advantage of weapons deals and training from the US.

This confrontation would in no way resemble what Israel has faced before. When I said that Turkey was armed to the teeth I wasn't kidding.

Should the troops start marching and the tanks start rolling, Israel has no allies to block a land push either. Syria and Lebanon would throw their border points wide open and even clear the roads for them in advance.

I don't want to see any war break out.

Israel needs to swallow some pride for once... Or are they truly a Lunatic State as more and more people are beginning to label them as?






[edit on 2-6-2010 by warequalsmurder]

reply to post by warequalsmurder


If war breaks out with Turkey, the only way Israel survives it is by using nukes. So there.

And if they do use nukes, all US puppets in the middle-east are gonna be overthrown and all the arabs countries will march on Israel till Israel is wiped out or they are wiped out.

Even in the west, people will say GOOD, Israel deserves it for using nuclear weapons first.

So I hope war doesn't break out, because we're gonna end up with 50 million dead and more, world economy destroyed and nuclear particulates circling the globe.

reply to post by dragnet53


The Turkish army is for the most part a decaying giant.. a bidproduct of the Cold War. The only thing truly remarkable about the Turkish Armed Forces anymore is their Airforce, which consist mostly of US provided F-16's.

Size means nothing in war.. Iraq had at one time the 3rd largest military in the World, third to the USA and Russia .. the US undid them in a matter of hours in the early 90's, leaving tens of thousands dead where they stood..

The only real power Turkey holds is economic power.. which is rather substantial for the ME, and larger than Israel. As well as influence, and allies..

Not that I think either one would ever go to war with one another, Turkey has always been somewhat of an ally to Israel, but they do seem pretty pissed off. Just hope they don't do anything stupid.

C'mon guys, put on your thinking caps.

Why is Turkey, after those years of silence, suddenly thrusted themselves upon the world stage?

1. The Turks had either decided to abandon secular rule and voted in a theocracy, or had been manipulated to do so, and this theocracy is hell bent on reviving its Caliphate claim of domineering all other muslim nations.


2. The military, long against theocracy and prefers secularism, is affected too by the financial crisis. It would mean a cut in the military budget and may even pull their teeth and pinch their bodies, long grown fat over its excesses.

Rather than to give up their power, they will deal with the devil to ensure their rights and priviledges are maintained, thus the collusion and hand in hand with the Islamic govt to make use of the palestinian and jewish conflict to remain in power and priviledge.


3. If our fellow humans - muslims - think Turkey is on a mission of deliverance, sadly think again.

None of the Turk elities had ever bothered about their fellow humans and religious brothers in Palestine, infact had long sold them out way back in the 18th century to the Jews, and it aint gonna about to care today. Their concern is only their own agenda - power and manipulation, as it had always been with the Turks.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


Man, I think you have a serious personal problem with Turks. Modern Turkey just isnt a very convincing villain in the current situation, no matter how hard you try to paint them as such. They are even working on their old grudges with the Azerbaijani, nowadays. One of their main industries today is tourism, and they are mostly fine with thatt. They are really not plotting to take over the world.

reply to post by XenoStuffz


Nope. No matter how you attempt to paint me, the truth is only self evident for all to see. But then, to each his own delusions. Just don't get bitter when reality strikes or blame anyone else for you taking the blue pill. It was only your own choice.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


Seeker,

The belligerent Israeli state attacked NATO vessels on the high seas (in International Waters).

If Turkey chooses to respond militarily, then the rest of NATO will have no choice but to help punish Israel - or see NATO break.

Fantasize all you want about the supremacy of the belligerent state's military while you still can because if Article V is invoked, then Israel will have bought it.







[edit on 2-6-2010 by Exuberant1]

Originally posted by Vitchilo
reply to post by warequalsmurder

 

If war breaks out with Turkey, the only way Israel survives it is by using nukes. So there.

I think you've outlined a pretty horrible future for Israel, all for the sake of Zionist pride over an illegal blockade.




[edit on 2-6-2010 by warequalsmurder]

Funney why are the UN peace keepers not in the Gazza strip or would that slow iserail down as it tried to starve the population in to surender.

Originally posted by SiKFury
I wonder what Georgia would think about that when NATO let the Russians manhandle them in their own country?

You seem to be a bit behind on events here.

Maybe you need to ask the UN who invade who first and read how the puppets got a good kicking.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


You make a good point about their military's own ambition .. perhaps it's possible that they see a chance to regain some political dominance in the region .. since the Iraq War they have been virtually silent and stayed mainly out of everyone elses affairs.. And the only issues I've seen arise from Turkey have been between Kurds (when they slaughter them) or fighting with Greece over sea/air space.

I don't think for a second they actually give a damn about Palestinians.. they have no love for them, as few nations do (Egypt's blockade is 10x worse than Israel's, Egypt even refuses medical and food supplies, and also shoots trespassers.. but no one talks about that)

One thing that does come to mind is that 9 Turks dead may stir some of the Religious Fundamentals in Turkey, get them agitated.. by the Government siding with that large population base, they show they are connected to the people, a small gesture to assure loyalty to the Government.

Originally posted by loner007
Europes own army may be called in.

Europe has no own army to call in, it still depends on national armies. OK, there is a big binational unit between France and Germany, that is somehow european, but afaik they are one light infantry division, which doesnt nt even have autonomous transport.

Europe will start an intensse discussion about military startegy, keeping their national armys as little involved as possible and cry foul if they disagree with someones escalation. But Israel doesnt get out of this trap until they convince Erdogan, that its actually a good deal for him to let them go.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

 

One thing that does come to mind is that 9 Turks dead may stir some of the Religious Fundamentals in Turkey, get them agitated.. by the Government siding with that large population base, they show they are connected to the people, a small gesture to assure loyalty to the Government.

Al lot more people than just some religious fundamentals are "agitated" over the death of their fellow citizens in Turkey right now. Erdogan has turned into a national hero in Turkey and gathered sympathy acros Europe when he declared the Naval escort mission-.
Erdogan has legitimate hurt national feelings to champion and I dont see anyone besides a seriously damaged Netanyahu in the ring against him so far. There will be much more talking than shooting in this war, so.