20,000 pages of FBI Files released on Kerry

Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
As a vet of that era I commend Senator Kerry for standing up for what was right. It seems that if it were not for individuals like him that stood up for their beliefs we would still be slopping around in the rice paddies of 'Nam.

"As a vet of that era"...................did you fight in the Vietnam War?

Newsflash Venus, there were millions of people against the vietnam war, and the FBI kept tabs on almost all of them...Kerry is no different, he was against the vietnam war, that makes him a better man in my opinion, and with many other people. It is funny that you even posted this, because obviously only the right wing war mongering types will even consider this detrimental to Kerry's image...



Yes, it's "all coming out now"! Oh boy! Kerry met with...COMMUNISTS!!! Nevermind the fact he was meeting with them to "secure the release of prisoners of war"...and this is bad why??? Do you even read and start to comprehend these articles before you post them? Oh I forgot, you supported firebombing of Vietnamese villages, to take care of all those "commies", since they posed such a threat to our country at the time...yes, we had to keep dumping more and more troops into a hopeless war, that has ultimately been remembered as one of the biggest #-ups of our time. 58,000 americans and millions of vietnamese died for absolutely NO reason, and our government lied about it...Kerry disagreed with this, and you are using it to try and bring him down? Really, why don't you enroll in a US history class at the very least before you WASTE OUR TIME with this bull#, it's all fine and wonderful if you want people to die for no reason, just come out and say it...if you support this country so much, by all means join the military and go get shot up for the cause, it will be a great honor. Until then, keep spewing your right wing propaganda in order to keep the war mongers in office, support innocent people being killed, and of course renew your John Birch Society Membership Card to "Get them Reds" (terrorists I suppose now) and save us all from these perceived threats, that are really used to further the greedy murderous agendas of those in power.

[edit on 11-6-2004 by Shoktek]

I read the first post.

This is a worthless piece of propaganda.

If you cant fool them with the Osama Bin Laden bogeyman, start trying to fool them with the terrifying word "Communist".

I thought many Americans had grown out of the Cold War and "into" the War On Terror.

Desperate measures are called for by desperate criminals like the Bush admin - let's go back to McCarthyism, and get on with North Korea, and keep people in mortal dread of anything foreign.

Originally posted by Shoktek
Newsflash Venus, there were millions of people against the vietnam war, and the FBI kept tabs on almost all of them...Kerry is no different, he was against the vietnam war, that makes him a better man in my opinion, and with many other people. It is funny that you even posted this, because obviously only the right wing war mongering types will even consider this detrimental to Kerry's image...

Yes, it's "all coming out now"! Oh boy! Kerry met with...COMMUNISTS!!!

Nevermind the fact he was meeting with them to "secure the release of prisoners of war"...and this is bad why??? Do you even read and start to comprehend these articles before you post them? Oh I forgot, you supported firebombing of Vietnamese villages, to take care of all those "commies", since they posed such a threat to our country at the time...yes, we had to keep dumping more and more troops into a hopeless war, that has ultimately been remembered as one of the biggest #-ups of our time. 58,000 americans and millions of vietnamese died for absolutely NO reason, and our government lied about it...Kerry disagreed with this, and you are using it to try and bring him down?

Really, why don't you enroll in a US history class at the very least before you WASTE OUR TIME with this bull#, it's all fine and wonderful if you want people to die for no reason, just come out and say it...if you support this country so much, by all means join the military and go get shot up for the cause, it will be a great honor. Until then, keep spewing your right wing propaganda in order to keep the war mongers in office, support innocent people being killed, and of course renew your John Birch Society Membership Card to "Get them Reds" (terrorists I suppose now) and save us all from these perceived threats, that are really used to further the greedy murderous agendas of those in power.

[edit on 11-6-2004 by Shoktek]

I wasn't even going to respond to this IGNORANCE...but I just can't help myself. You are missing the entire point of this post. Mr. Kerry is HONORED BY THE VIETNAMESE FOR HELPING THEM WIN THE WAR AGAINST THE U.S......oh......nevermind......you are obviously a filthy DEMOCRAT....I don't have time for you:shk:


I really wish I had wrote this myself:

John Kerry, after an abbreviated, and carefully calculated, tour of duty in Vietnam, returned to instantly oppose the very war in which he had volunteered to serve. Such fickleness from soldiers turned politicians resembles very bad men.

Adolph Hitler first dodged the draft in Austria, and then he enlisted for combat in Bavaria to fight for Imperial Germany when the Great War began, then he joined the Bavaria Soldier's Soviet in the brief Bavarian experiment with Marxism, then denounced Marxism as well as the Kaiser and the "November Traitors." Hitler never tired of reminding his audiences that he, too, had been a front line soldier. Hitler was a brave and decorated veteran in the Great War. He was also an evil liar.

Mussolini gained his first real notice in Italian politics when he protested the "Imperialist" Italian war against Libya and denounced war in general as a capitalist ploy. The Duce, as his Socialist compatriots called him long before his Fascist compatriots called him Duce, emphatically opposed Italy entering the Great War in 1914, but by 1915 Mussolini emphatically supported entering the war against Austria and Germany.

Duce, as the leader of Fascist Italy, first supported Austria against Germany, then betrayed Austria to Germany, then stayed neutral during the first nine months of the Second World War, then joined the side of Greater Germany (Germany and Austria united in Anschluss.) Mussolini, like Hitler, was a brave front line soldier. He never tired of telling people that he was a brave front line soldier. Like Hitler, Mussolini was also an evil liar.

Bravery in combat, all other things being equal, is a virtue, but bravery itself is not a virtue. Hitler and Mussolini were genuinely physically brave, as was Genghis Khan and Attila the Hun and General Yama#a. Bravery, like intelligence, magnifies the capability of the individual, but the individual must choose whether that magnification of potential makes greater good or greater evil.

Mendacity and betrayal are the best indicators of whether courage and technology, like wealth, beauty, fame, strength and popularity help or hurt the cause of virtue in life. Churchill and Washington were at least as physically courageous as Hitler or Mussolini. These two good men also had the true and better courage: moral courage.

We all know that we will die, and that makes physical courage possible in evil hearts. Some of us, however, do not believe in a good and true God watching and judging us. They lack the courage of conscience. These men, like Napoleon and Caesar and Hitler and Mussolini, parlay their physical courage into turning a savage lust for power into empires of lies, doubt and fear among men. John Kerry seems, sadly, like such a man. Venting rage at men tortured by North Vietnamese Communists whose cause Kerry tacitly championed is not a good sign.

Originally posted by Venus
you are obviously a filthy DEMOCRAT....I don't have time for you:shk:

No, I'm not a democrat, and this isn't a great way to get your point across...you fit in well with the rest of the idiots in this country who think they must support everything that our government does to be "patriotic"...the sad thing is that you and your buddies don't have any clue what is going on, and it is your own stupidity which brings you into this mindset to begin with...carry on with your propaganda, but as others in this thread have already stated, they too have recognized this smear campaign for what it is.

I hardly think bringing the vietnam war into your argument against kerry is a good move, and it shows your complete and total idiocy when it comes to that event in history. Think of vietnam and the war in Iraq, and then Kerry and Bush and their supporters and stance on the war...do you really think this will get you anywhere? Scare tactics and McCarthyism is still strong...just the name has changed from communists to terrorists...give me a #ing break.

Pure propaganda. It's good that Bush supporters are stooping so low to get votes, it will make it all the more satisfying when he loses this election.


"Well, I wus lookin' everywhere for them gol-darned Reds.
I got up in the mornin' 'n' looked under my bed,
Looked in the sink, behind the door,
Looked in the glove compartment of my car.
Couldn't find 'em . . .

I wus lookin' high an' low for them Reds everywhere,
I wus lookin' in the sink an' underneath the chair.
I looked way up my chimney hole,
I even looked deep inside my toilet bowl.
They got away . . ."

I fkerry visited with the communist leaders to negotiate for POWs then I applaud him. The military should NEVER EVER leave ANY of our boys behind. Hw ever if as alleged he met with them a second time in secret and has not admitted to it or denied it then in does bear questioning. Why would he hide it? The first visit was in the open why hide the second?

Originally posted by mwm1331
I fkerry visited with the communist leaders to negotiate for POWs then I applaud him. The military should NEVER EVER leave ANY of our boys behind. Hw ever if as alleged he met with them a second time in secret and has not admitted to it or denied it then in does bear questioning. Why would he hide it? The first visit was in the open why hide the second?

To me it's all food for thought. If you want someone who is honored by the vietnamese for helping them defeat the USA then by all means vote for Kerry. If you think that it's irrelevant.....that's your option...just do us all a favor and DON'T VOTE.

shoktek - do me a favor...ok.....leave me alone....don't respond to my posts....go away......thanks

Originally posted by Shoktek
No, I'm not a democrat, and this isn't a great way to get your point across...you fit in well with the rest of the idiots in this country who think they must support everything that our government does to be "patriotic"...the sad thing is that you and your buddies don't have any clue what is going on, and it is your own stupidity which brings you into this mindset to begin with...

Which part of don't be abusive to other members in the Mud-Pit did you miss?
By all means discuss the issue, but in regard to the comments you made, please see this:

www.belowtopsecret.com...

If you are unable to temper your rhetoric to avoid personal attacks and direct personal insults, you will not be welcome here.

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander

Originally posted by Shoktek
No, I'm not a democrat, and this isn't a great way to get your point across...you fit in well with the rest of the idiots in this country who think they must support everything that our government does to be "patriotic"...the sad thing is that you and your buddies don't have any clue what is going on, and it is your own stupidity which brings you into this mindset to begin with...

Which part of don't be abusive to other members in the Mud-Pit did you miss?
By all means discuss the issue, but in regard to the comments you made, please see this:

www.belowtopsecret.com...

If you are unable to temper your rhetoric to avoid personal attacks and direct personal insults, you will not be welcome here.

you might want to add this as well...

you are obviously a filthy DEMOCRAT

democrat is one thing but filthy...eh not called for. one thing to be mislabeled, another to be called filthy.

Just to add in another aspect of the Vietnam war, the US was blinded in it's fear of Communism that we, the US as a glorious nation, supported Khmer Rouge in its quest to kill over 1.7 million of it's citizens in genocide. This was done as a means to an end to gain Cambodias support for the Vietnam war. We just never hear or read about it in our history books. The Vietnam War was an ugly, ugly war and not confined to just Vietnam. Here is an article, in rememberance of those who lost thier lives, not just US soldiers:

www.sptimes.com...

To oppose the war was a good thing, IMO.

Hey Zed, as TPM pointed out, she started the personal insults...maybe as a moderator you shouldn't let your political affiliation get in the way of handing out fair judgement, don't you think?
I guess the fact that 58,000 men died in vietnam for nothing is absolutely no reason for my being a little pissed about people who see it a different way, and again, see where she got "personal" first.

Originally posted by Shoktek
Hey Zed, as TPM pointed out, she started the personal insults...maybe as a moderator you shouldn't let your political affiliation get in the way of handing out fair judgement, don't you think?

I guess the fact that 58,000 men died in vietnam for nothing is absolutely no reason for my being a little pissed about people who see it a different way, and again, see where she got "personal" first.

i dont care who got personal first. you both insulted each other and you both got warned. zedd has taken care of this situation. however for future reference...please feel free to U2U the mod in question (whoever that mod may be) and ask them privately. less drama ensues that way. thanks!

Wow, 20,000 pages on Kerry, yet not one page about Bush's driving record. Someone might think Bush and his republican thugs ordered these files to be released. BTW, not supporting the Vietnam War was good and probably helped lead to the end of the war more soon. And seeing the Commies, the President met with the commies to try to make a truce, to make peace. How come no one criticizes President JFK for meeting with commies to try to end the war yet criticize Kerry for trying to free POW's.

Of course, I don't support Kerry, I support anyone but Bush. Now sure if it was Hitler vs Bush for Pres I would support Bush, but it isn't. In fact it's more like Hitler vs Kerry.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
yet criticize Kerry for trying to free POW's.

Not in favor of Bush here, but the way Kerry conducted himself was sleazy. Yes I oppose that war, well then I wouldn't exist actually, I just don't trust Kerry. IMO, Bush and Kerry are one in the same. But the lesser of two evils would have to be Kerry.

[Edited on 17-6-2004 by Narnia]

I'd like to point out that the posts that shoktek and I made were BEFORE Skeptic put on the restriction. Neither warning should be valid but of course you will all see that differently. You sure make it nice to log in in the morning. If you want us gone you should just say so.


shoktec - I personally apologize for calling you a filthy democrat or even assuming that you were. Wanna go have a cup of tea and discuss it on the playground? Maybe right after nap time?



NEVERMIND..................I'M GONE

[Edited on 6/17/2004 by Venus]

Originally posted by Shoktek
Hey Zed, as TPM pointed out, she started the personal insults...maybe as a moderator you shouldn't let your political affiliation get in the way of handing out fair judgement, don't you think?

I guess the fact that 58,000 men died in vietnam for nothing is absolutely no reason for my being a little pissed about people who see it a different way, and again, see where she got "personal" first.

Personally, I could care less...I am NOT an American and I am not involved.
Do I like to debate? Sure and most time I play devil's advocate, but so what?

Now, what I would like to know is why when YOU insult someone and then get caught...you want to play the "poor me it's unfair" game. Here is something interesting...it's called take responsibility for your actions and move on. Never will I understand all the fingerpointing and "well, he did this and she did that" and "you're not fair, she did it first". I have a 6 year-old and a 9 year-old that do that too.

Yea, except your a mod...so whatever...I guess do whatever you want.

[edit on 17-6-2004 by Shoktek]

Again, 20,000 on Kerry, yet when people request Bush's driving record, it turns out they under lock and seal, banned from the eyes of everyone. People ask for papers on him and his time in office, but those have been hidden and will never see the light of day again. Bush ordered those files to be given out, to try and discredit Kerry, but none of the things he did was illegal. Protesting the War and meeting commies to try and get POW's freed are good things, not bad. While if Bush's driving records were realesed, well, as the song goes..."Driving around drinking like a fish".

yep, Bush's Texas records are completely gone...nothing about his DUI(s), and coc aine possession...who knows what else this guy has done and gotten away with, since he is above the law. And it all fits in well with reports of Bush going crazy and becoming paranoid in recent times...maybe the former drunk/cokehead has gone back to his old habits?