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Reports: Israeli ships attack aid flotilla

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posted on May, 31 2010 @ 06:27 PM
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reply to post by makeitso
 


We cannot know what goes on the Israeli government's minds, but it is pretty simple to see that blockading aid will result in shortages.

b) is an important point. The blockade is out of proportion to the threat. It is not just me saying that, government officials say it. Heck even Tony Blair said it 2 years ago.

Could the blockade be part of what Israel meant when it promised disproportionate response to rockets?



Israel vows "disproportionate" reply to rockets

www.alarabiya.net...




posted on May, 31 2010 @ 06:27 PM
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reply to post by BlackOps719
 


Since Operation Cast Lead I have lost count of the number of "investigations" into alleged war crimes that Israel have conducted and I don't think they have come up with a single case where they have shown themselves to be wrong.

How odd is that ?



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 06:28 PM
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As for the fact that elite Israeli soldiers can in one instant be portrayed as invincible and yet the next as hapless victims — that is a paradox that can be resolved only in the minds of Israelis.


warincontext.org...



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 06:29 PM
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Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by clay2 baraka
In one of the Israeli released videos, it shows a commando with the paintball gun leveled at a protester's face.


Which will hurt like hell (I can tell you from experience) and could possibly (though not necessarily and in most circumstances not) kill someone. However, considering the mayhem on the deck, that is a reasonable response.


I forgot that US troops in Afghanistan are using ones filled with paint and brittle metal bismuth (even more dense than the ones I am guessing were used in the raid). Although the pepper-spray pellets are denser than normal as well...


The Army are a bit vague about the effects of the FN303. The bismuth body is designed to fragment on impact, but the makers FN Herstal stress the sheer physical force of these rounds. "The shock and pain caused by the impact instantly stop and neutralize the suspect," the company says.

Dave Young, of the PoliceOne Training Network, experienced the effects of the FN303 and a similar launcher for himself:



Both left small dime- to quarter-size markings on my calf, called a hematoma, from the internal bleeding that was caused from the impact. Both minor blunt trauma marks, the FN303 rounds lasted about 12 days and the others about nine days.

The projectiles can be dangerous. After the Boston Red Sox won the World Series in 2004, a college student was accidentally killed when she was shot in the eye with a FN303. The power of these weapons should not be underestimated: they are far preferable to shooting with live ammunition, but cannot be used carelessly because they’re not "real" guns

www.wired.com...

[edit on 5/31/2010 by clay2 baraka]



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 06:30 PM
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So someone explain to me WHY IDF soldiers would rappel down onto the deck when they can clearly see people with Clubs/pipes? Perhaps this is to make their "Assault" on the vessel look more innocent? I don't know a single special forces member who would repel down to that spot on the deck....The dead center...If they were there to commandeer the ship, with less than lethal violence....Why wouldn't they just repel onto the top of that "cabin" or whatever as another poster posted.....The IDF video is CLEARLY just more propaganda to feed the public.



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 06:30 PM
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reply to post by MorfeuZ
 


In fact there is no proof that the video is of this incident at all. It may be, but how can we know?

[edit on 31-5-2010 by InvisibleAlbatross]



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 06:31 PM
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reply to post by DoomsdayRex
 





And again, if the Israelis' intention was just to kill people, we would be discussing a much higher death toll.


It doesn't matter what Israeli intentions were, it matters what the outcome of Israeli actions are, and that is nine people dead.

Trained soldiers wearing combat gear and heavily armed stabbed by passengers?

Please!

If you are going into a situation like that, you do so with an eye to gain absolute dominance and subdue the people, not kill the people in a melee you let get out of control.

A small town’s Sheriff’s Department could have done a better job at establishing control and preventing injuries to their own officers as well as the people they were trying to subdue than the Israeli’s did.

There is absolutely no legitimate reason that an operation to subdue and board an unarmed craft could have resulted in so many deaths regardless of what the ‘intentions’ were of the boarders.

If I find myself accused of murder in a court of law, my intentions gain almost no consideration, my actions gain every consideration.

The IDF has a reputation for massacring people in cold blood, from the early days of the Zionist Terrorist Movement, to the USS Liberty, to the executions of prisoners in the Sinai, to letting the Lebanese Christian Militia run wild in Palestine Refugee Camps when Israel was occupying portions of the Lebanese Nation to killing children in Gaza as young as 5, by firing rubber bullets point blank from a close distance into their skulls.

The truth is that it really doesn’t matter how Media tries to spin these things, because actions speak louder than words.

Intentions?



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by MorfeuZ
Do you really believe that this video shows the beginning of the operation?


With all the captions put in by the IDF? REALLY???


Can you tell us why the video is wrong, does not show what it claims or is otherwise false? In response to video evidence, all you have managed is a weak "kill the messenger" non-sequitur.


Well;
First: Why are the timestamps of the video blurred?
Second: Why all the editting?
Third: Why not show us the ropes coming down and the real FIRST solidier boarding the ship?

I am sure there's a lot more doubtful things about the footage released by the IDF.

But hey, I am not saying that the comandoes were not attacked first, I am just saying that I respectully doubt this editted footage released by the Israeli governament.



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by PatesHatriots
reply to post by pepesilvia
 


Because a lot of us were watching it live on the boats as it was happening. Thus it's kind of hard for anyone to spin considering we all just watched it as it happened.


As I previously stated, you did not have all the information.

See link:
news.bbc.co.uk...

Again you are more than welcome to jump to conclusions before you even have accounts from both sides. It only results in the appearance of ignorance and biased posts, no harm there right?



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by little_green_man
Israel just looks for the smallest of excuses to kill every time.

Last time some Hamas terrorist shot a firework into israel and injured one person..... what do they do? Bomb the entire city, mosques, UN offices, schools, homes... killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civillians. And I bet no more than 10 of those killed were actually Hamas agents.


Can you be more specific about which incident you are talking about?


Originally posted by little_green_man
This time.... they board a ship in international waters, armed with guns. Then when they get hit by sticks and stones, they kill 19.

Pathetic.


You know the old maxim, "stick and stones..." right? If you were being beaten with sticks and stones, would you open fire to protect yourself?



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 06:32 PM
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Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth
The terrorist organization Hamas, which controls Gaza, in collusion with Turkey, intentionally provoked this incident in order to discredit Israel yet again.


I could believe that if you could prove it. Until then, this assertion lacks credibility.


Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth
This incident had nothing to do with Humanitarian Aid. It had everything to do with busting a blockade, the same blockade that Egypt currently enforces against "terrorist controlled Gaza from their side of the border.


Its funny that you mention the blockade, considering that it is ILLEGAL. This illegal blockade is a crock, and considering the fact that it is illegal, kudos to the humanitarians for defying it. Also, how do you know that the incident did not involve humanitarian aid. Show me some proof of that.



Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth
I don't ever recall seeing "Humanitarians" severely beating people like I am seeing on television right now. The news footage is shocking. It is obvious that the Israeli's were merely defending themselves against a vicious brutal attack.



I don't ever recall seeing a countr'y army board a private ship in international waters either. If that was my boat and I was in international waters, and the IDF just decided to show up uninvited and armed, yah I would beat some ass too. And by the way, at that point I would be defending myself, not the other way around. The aggressor cannot possibly be defending themselves.


Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth
It is also obvious that most of the Jew Haters, Terrorists and so called "Humanitarians" who post on this site are doing so from oversees.


Sure, there are some of those on this site, but don't for a minute generalize that everyone critical of Israel in regards to this situation is as such. And what does it matter if people are posting from overseas?



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 06:35 PM
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reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth
 


Hamas was working with European politicians and an 86 year-old Holocaust survivor?

(Yes I will keep bringing this up until it is addressed)



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 06:35 PM
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deleted

[edit on 31-5-2010 by little_green_man]



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 06:35 PM
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Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

You know the old maxim, "stick and stones..." right? If you were being beaten with sticks and stones, would you open fire to protect yourself?


Do you not get the point? There would not be any sticks and stones if the IDF had not raided that boat!



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 06:36 PM
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Originally posted by gambon
yeah its a ram air marker...whether they had pepper balls is not clear, VERY doubtfull at the range that these would be used , as much chance of peppering yourself....and id rather be facing one than a real m4 .......

nothing "weaponised " about it...and far less deadly than an iron bar imo...tbh


Whether or not it is weaponized is kind of moot. There is no such thing as a non-lethal weapon, only weapons that are less lethal than others.



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 06:37 PM
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Whats really odd about the IDF footage is the way they are repelling to the deck. Its almost as if its recreational repelling (ie taking ones time) rather than an actual combat repell from a chopter. Ive seen an entire Ranger team egress from a Blackhawk and they had a large number of people on the ground in a a really rapid fashion.



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 06:39 PM
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Originally posted by InvisibleAlbatross
reply to post by makeitso
 


We cannot know what goes on the Israeli government's minds, but it is pretty simple to see that blockading aid will result in shortages.

b) is an important point. The blockade is out of proportion to the threat. It is not just me saying that, government officials say it. Heck even Tony Blair said it 2 years ago.

Could the blockade be part of what Israel meant when it promised disproportionate response to rockets?



Israel vows "disproportionate" reply to rockets

www.alarabiya.net...



The blockade exists as Hamas will not return the IDF soldier they captured.

Is this an over-the-top response? Yes, I believe it is. However, the other side to this coin; if Hamas truely cared about the well being of fellow Palestinians then it would have returned the soldier years ago to avoid the suffering of it's 'people'.



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 06:40 PM
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reply to post by DoomsdayRex
 


ahh but technically they are not a weapon...they are a painball marker for recreational use..sold all around the world , even in countries which do not allow any sort of firearm.a small point but may be significant..

I would say pretty much impossible to kill someone with it , and far less durable than an iron bar if used as a club..

[edit on 31-5-2010 by gambon]



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 06:40 PM
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Originally posted by FredT
Whats really odd about the IDF footage is the way they are repelling to the deck. Its almost as if its recreational repelling (ie taking ones time) rather than an actual combat repell from a chopter. Ive seen an entire Ranger team egress from a Blackhawk and they had a large number of people on the ground in a a really rapid fashion.


It's just another day in the office for them.... killing civillians, making excuses etc.



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 06:41 PM
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reply to post by Skellon
 


No argument about Hamas and the Israeli soldier. But as this is a disproportionate response, it is against international law.



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