Reports: Israeli ships attack aid flotilla

Originally posted by oozyismGet real.. There is a reason why rockets are being fired towards Israel..

And that reason is the Palestinian terrorists hate Israel and have vowed to destroy it - a fact that you ignore for some reason!

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
reply to post by oozyism

 

In the eyes of Extremists from both sides there is no interest in Peace. Either the whole land is Israel or the whole land is Palestine. They don't want to compromise, they don't want to concede, they don't want to sacrifice what they believe is theirs.

As long as Extremists within Israel and Extremists within the Palestinian Territories continue to hold positions of influence, Peace will only remain but a distant dream.

[edit on 29/8/2010 by Dark Ghost]

Ohh Jeez.. Palestinians already accepted Israel's right to exist, even Hamas accepted it, but Israel refused to stop its settlement expansions and occupation.

Israel already exists, so what is the point of accepting its existence? That is kind of idiotic, Palestine doesn't exist, and Israel is not accepting its right to exist.

Peace will only be accomplished when Israel's security is truly at risk, at the moment there is no risk to Israeli security, and please don't tell me home made fireworks is a security risk to Israel.

When Palestinians have the power to defend themselves from Israeli aggression, that is when you will see peace. As long as Palestinians are left without any defense, they will be harassed and victimized continuously by the Zionists until they are kicked out, or completely wiped out.

We all know what Christian Zionists and Jewish Zionists want, but we also know what most of the world stands against.

As Ahmadinejad said, if the Zionists continue in the same path, they will be wiped out and will be history, watch and learn, it happened to Nazis and it will happen to the Zionists.

reply to post by dereks

And that reason is the Palestinian terrorists hate Israel and have vowed to destroy it - a fact that you ignore for some reason!

Ignorance is a bless, but sometimes it is a horrible sin, read my post where I provide sources which explains when and why Palestinians turned to violence. I bet no one told you and I bet you don't want to know, and I bet 100$ you don't care because it doesn't effect you therefore you will continue your BS and believe Zionist propaganda.. GG..

Originally posted by oozyism
Palestinians already accepted Israel's right to exist, even Hamas accepted it,

You of course ignore the Hamas charter where it states ""Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory)."

So Hamas does NOT accept Israel's right to exist.... just another anti semite lie.

reply to post by dereks

You of course ignore the Hamas charter where it states ""Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory)."

So Hamas does NOT accept Israel's right to exist.... just another anti semite lie.

OK let's forget about Hamas for a second, because you won't believe Jack I say, and I know why but don't want to go in detail.

Let's talk about Fatah, does Fatah accept Israel's right to exist?

If yes, is Israel continuing its settlement expansion in Fatah controlled area?

Is Israel continuing its settlement expansion in Hamas controlled area?

All of that being said, does it make a difference if they accept Israel's right to exist or not?

reply to post by oozyism


How does that have any relationship to Gaza.

Both nations voted for war. And people will yell Gaza doesn't exist anymore, but when they did, they voted for war. Both nations engaged in this war they voted for. One nation lost, the other won. The actions of each are indifferent. There is no moral high ground. There is no good guy. Not even most of the civilians are innocent, as the ones who did not vote for war on both sides ran away from the conflict. So all that is left are two war hungry peoples engaged in a battle to extermination. Whoever wins, the other one dies.

So remind me again. For such a fact of this war, how is anybody right? How can anybody say they chose a side? If given the choice between Stalin and Hitler, I chose none of the above. I will not be forced into choosing an evil power.

Yes, Israel has the right to exist. Yes, Gaza can do whatever it feels like doing if it is not including firing rickets at its neighbors. No, there is no good side here. The simple fact is that you have the civilized Israel reducing itself the the lifestyle of the barbarians around it, in doing so becoming a barbarian and no better, and therefore, no different.

To choose a side in this argument would be like choosing between black and black for a house that has to be colored white. Forget about choosing altogether. Leave and find white.

reply to post by Gorman91


I think you are confusing war with resistance.. Please don't, it is a horrible thing to say, espicially when you have never been in their situation.

But I knnow what you are gonna say, you are gonna say since the Zionists have more guns the Palestinians should bow their heads and just try to survive, and not fight.

Heard your arguments before, most people in the world don't agree with it..

reply to post by oozyism


Zionism does not exist. It is the desire for an Israeli state. Zionism ended when Israel was founded. Nationalism is the proper term.

Nationalist Israel.

And this resistance you speak of? What makes it right? Does resistance make your movement right? Does it make you better or anything at all?

What does this resistance desire? It desires an end to Israel. And if Israel lost the war, their resistance would desire an end to Palestine.

This resistance is simply a desperate army now using children and families. Indifferent from Africa's "lord's army." A resistance that desires genocide is not a good resistance. It is simply a bunch of genocidal fools.

So thank you for assuming Id desire them to bow down to their conquerers. No. I don't desire either side to do anything. Because as far as I'm concerned, they've both sold their humanity for a lowly desire of communal extermination. If that's what they want, then what they get is what they get. Not my problem. Their insanity, not mine.

Originally posted by oozyism

What chance are you talking about lol please provide a source???

Yes, I'm talking about the 2000 Camp David meetings. You can look up the sources yourself. Arafat could have had a Palestinian State, it wouldn't have been everything he wanted, but it was about as close to a compromise that he was going to get. All he had to do was stay engaged and counteroffer and there would have been a deal.

It would have been a deal the Israelis didn't get everything they wanted and the Palestinians wouldn't get all they wanted, but it would work. Instead, he decided to pack up his bags and leave the talks. The Second Infidada started after that. there vanished the Palestinians best chance for a Palestinian State. Even Bill Clinton puts the blame on Arafat for the failure of those talks.

Arafat should be held accountable for not grasping Peace and a Palestinian State when it was well within his grasp at the time.

reply to post by Gorman91


Zionism regarding the Biblical Israel, meaning the Zionists want the whole of Biblical Israel, so Zionism is still alive and going hard, I guess you haven't watched much Israeli news lately..

Resistance regarind the occupation and the expansion of Jewish settlements, which are still actively going and strong.. Read my post in the previous page, then again I'm sure you have, and read the statestics and the facts..

Please don't claim you are not taking sides, your bias is very obvious, even a 2 year old can see it.

reply to post by pavil


So you are saying Arafat should have continued talking while Israel continue expanding settlements indefinitely lol..

Yeah, Clinton lol.. Clinton is not biased right

Did you even read my post in the previous page explaining why the talks stopped? How Israel doubled the expansion rate and bulldozed Palestinian homes, something which is still continuing? And when Palestinians peacefully protested these actions they were shot at and killed?

Ignore the facts, that will help you sleep at nigh

Originally posted by oozyism
OK let's forget about Hamas for a second,

Why ignore the Hamas terrorists - as shown, they wish to destroy Israel!

Let's talk about Fatah, does Fatah accept Israel's right to exist?

Well, their charter states "Complete liberation of Palestine, and eradication of Zionist economic, political, military and cultural existence"
so they also want Israel destroyed!

reply to post by oozyism


I don't get it. Even after the Camp David meetings of 2000, they were so close to a deal at the Taba Summit. And you don't want to blame Arafat for the delay? All the pieces were in place, but by the time Arafat re-engaged the political situation had changed.

Arafat missed a chance for peace and a Palestinian State. The time for the deal was between Camp David in July 2000 and the end of the Clinton Administration. Arafat dithered away this oppourunity.

reply to post by oozyism


What biased is there? If Jerusalem was a crater the world's problems would be a lot fewer. I think that makes my sentiments pretty simple. I think they're all barbarians and getting what they wanted.

reply to post by dereks



1. Do you know the difference between Zionist and Israel?

2. Do you know when Hamas came to existance?

3. Do you know when Palestinians started violence?

4. Do you know why Palestinians chose violence?

5. Do you know how Palestinians protested against settlement expansions(illegal under internation law) + occupation??



I can't force you to believe anything, I have layed the facts in front of your face and you ignored it.. Good for you, what ever makes you sleep at night..

This discussion will not move forward because you have already made up your mind, watched too much MSM and probably is a Christian..

Add all of that together is a web I can't break through.. Good day to you sir..

reply to post by Gorman91


Watch how your bias pops up and you try to hide it everytime:

Yes, Israel has the right to exist. Yes, Gaza can do whatever it feels like doing if it is not including firing rickets at its neighbors. No, there is no good side here. The simple fact is that you have the civilized Israel reducing itself the the lifestyle of the barbarians around it, in doing so becoming a barbarian and no better, and therefore, no different.

Red is your bias showing, Blue is you trying to hide it.

reply to post by oozyism


Not trying to hide anything. Gaza and the surrounding nations are barbarians. They have every right to exist as barbarians. But if they try to force that silliness on others than they're going to get what's coming to them. The simple fact is that except for somewhat Turkey and perhaps the UAE and Iran, most of the middle east are nothing more than primitive barbarians. call it biased, but the fact is that Israel is now indifferent, and so I don't care about them anymore.

Once they were civilized. Now they are not. And so thus I stopped picking sides.

Yes I did once favor Israel. Now I do not. Because they are no longer civilized.

Barbarians can enjoy the barbary wars they generate for themselves.

[edit on 30-8-2010 by Gorman91]

Originally posted by oozyism
Watch how your bias pops up

as opposed to your bias against the Jews, which you make no attempt to hide, trying to blame them for everything!

Remember, anti semites use "Zionism" when they really mean "The Jews"

[edit on 30/8/10 by dereks]

reply to post by dereks


No I don't hide the fact that I hate Zionists who are working right now to kick Palestinians out and build Jewish settlements over them, and completely get rid of them from the land which they have lived in for generations. Try proving me wrong for once.

Don't forget, I hate aggressors, and at the momment I see the Zionist regime of Israel as the aggressors..

You didn't know the current Israeli regime is Zionist?


Cute

reply to post by Gorman91


Iraq Chose Democracy, who got rid of it? The US..

Iran Chose Democracy, who got rid of it? The US..

Palestine chose Democracy, who F'd up? The Zionists harbored in the US and armed by the US.

Afghanistan Chose Democracy, who got rid of it? The US..

I can keep going, they weren't barbarians, the West made them Barbarians in the process of protecting their own interests, hence not allowing oil to get nationalised..

The mis-managment of that area by the British, then by the US was a huge desaster which you can see the effects up till today..

SAD isn't it, in my country (Afghanistan), education used to be a pride, every one of our dads have a title in front of their names, like my dad has engineer, because he took his digree in civil at Kabul University which was worldly recognized.. It was a pride to have such titles in front of your name, some had Dr, some had Haji, which was also a pride..

Man puts me on the sad mood when I think about how my country got F'd because the US regarded communism as evil .. Now it is making the same mistake in regarding Islam as evil and trying to destroy Iran