Reports: Israeli ships attack aid flotilla

I wanted to share something I learned while researching the Israeli government's position on the legality of their action. When they talk about "International Law" or "International Maritime Law", what they are referring to is the "San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea." The thing is, this San Remo Manual is not legally binding. It is not ratified by any nation. It is not law. In fact, it received almost no attention in legal or political circles until it was cited by Israel as support for their action.

See here: en.wikipedia.org... 1994.29

reply to post by JohnnyElohim


Good research! I guess I didn't realize that the specific law Israel was using to defend it's actions wasn't in fact a real law. I'm sure lawyers in Turkey will stumble across the same thing you have Johnny. Good work! Star!

I posted this before but now it's finally just got up on youtube for those who have not seen it:

Flotilla Massacre: Cynthia McKinney interviewed on CBC's Connect with Mark Kelley

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by soleprobe
I posted this before but now it's finally just got up on youtube for those who have not seen it:

Flotilla Massacre: Cynthia McKinney interviewed on CBC's Connect with Mark Kelley

www.youtube.com...

Thanks for the link soleprobe, my ears did prick up when she said that the people onboard the Freedom flotilla were "unarmed humanitarian activists".

This is after her seeing the footage of soldiers being aggressed and beaten.

"I can tell you that everything that the Free Gaza movement does is totally transparent, they are totally unarmed, they are totally non-threatening to the state of Israel."

So as this contradicts the events that took place on the ship's deck, I guess I was either right in my conclusion that antagonists, seperate to the majority of passengers aggressed the soldiers as they boarded or she is full of it.

Mostly what I heard though was a woman hell bent on an anti-Israel rant to the point where the interviewer has to remind her to get back on topic.

Also notice that she pauses and seems to hesitate before formulating her words often in this interview, which is in direct contrast to the below, mostly 'fluid' interview on CNN, however even in this she displays the same hesitation under direct/awkward questioning.














[edit on 2-6-2010 by Skellon]

There are 2 sides for each story -
www.youtube.com...

reply to post by JohnnyElohim


So the spammers on this forum and others are referring to the recommendations of a. . Think Tank, and citing it as international law??

Do they think that we are that stupid??

reply to post by patonj


And your point is with this? I'd beat anyone with a rod if they came into my house or location without an invitation.... especially if they have guns.

Dang, and here I was hopping JIDF wouldn't pop their heads back into this thread anytime soon. Guess I was mistaken

-Wave 3 begins-

On a side note,

Why did Israel choose such a high-risk option? The answer is that over many years, Israel has become accustomed to unchallenged freedom of military action in the Middle East. Operating boldly and often far from home, it has attacked and intimidated its adversaries. This confrontational approach worked brilliantly when Israel's foes were backward guerrillas and incompetent Arab armies, but it has been less successful in the era of the Internet and missile proliferation. And military supremacy tempted Israel into ever-greater risk-taking. A prime example is the invasion of Lebanon in 1982, which many Israelis would argue left their nation less secure than before. By attacking the relief flotilla, Israel picked a fight with Turkey, a more dangerous foe than Hamas. The quarrel has been brewing for the past several years, and it's a huge strategic change in the Middle East. Once Israel's most important regional ally, Turkey now seeks to challenge Israel's hegemony as the local superpower. Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan is a Muslim populist with a charismatic message: We won't let Israel push us around. Where Iran's president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, is often a buffoon, Erdogan is a genuinely tough if erratic rival.

Source - Washington Post

reply to post by SpectreDC


Oh he already defended himself earlier in the thread. No reason to accuse him again...*smirk*

I think it's funny that ATS is scary in the JIDF's eye though.

Originally posted by SpectreDC
reply to post by patonj

 

Registered: 1-6-2010

I wonder how long the account will last? At least try and pretend to be interested in other parts of the forum. Throw us a bone and post something about HAARP or UFO's or spontaneous human combustion. .

Originally posted by black cat
The protestors weren't innocent in this. From Huffington Post:

From the Huffington Post you say, and post it as though it's their reporting?

The Post was, as you well know, merely quoting from the written IDF account.

To attribute a quote to a source quoting it is tantamount to a lie.

I had not caught the soldier being repeatedly stabbed in the arm and he still didn't respond with live fire at this point. (55 seconds in)







I would also like to add that they are carrying paintball guns as their 'main weapons' and a hand gun as a 'live' backup weapon.

In that situation you have two options, you either throw yourself overboard or you draw your 'live' handgun. In light of what we see on this video, they showed remarkable restraint and discipline in not drawing their hand guns even when being lynched, beaten and stabbed. The intent was to kill them as I see it.

You do not initiate aggression towards someone then repeatedly stab them out of self defence, when they are not even fighting back.

I have heard the word 'murderers' repeated so often in this thread and yet we do not witness any murder.

What we do witness however, is the attempted murder of Israeli soldiers, yeah, you heard me right, it had to be said.

The Navy Commandos show that they did not come there to kill people, they show it with the carrying of paintball guns (non-lethal) and show it especially by not shooting wildly into the crowd before or after the first beatings, it is not until later when they are given the order to use lethal force if their lives depend upon it that they actually do.

From this video I think many people in their position facing a lynch mob with the intent to kill them, would have killed the lot out of fear and panic.

I welcome outrage/flames in this case as with the footage that is available to us right now I feel justified in my post.


[edit on 2-6-2010 by Skellon]

Originally posted by Skellon
I had not caught the soldier being repeatedly stabbed in the arm and he still didn't respond with live fire at this point. (55 seconds in)

I would also like to add that they are carrying paintball guns as their 'main weapons' and a hand gun as a 'live' backup weapon.


[edit on 2-6-2010 by Skellon]

You know what doesn't add up to me. . . ?

The official IDF story states (look it up):

“Israeli military officials said the soldiers were carrying paint-ball guns and had orders to use their pistols only to defend themselves.

countusout.wordpress.com... aken-down-from-mavi-marmara-ship-after-israeli-raid/

Oddly enough, the "suppressed" video shows the Commandos wielding close quarters assault shotguns. They are lying right to your face, yet you willingly ignore it. It's right in front of you! /boggle

Originally posted by Skellon

I would also like to add that they are carrying paintball guns as their 'main weapons' and a hand gun as a 'live' backup weapon.

Haha yeah...

and these too.

static.guim.co.uk...

Notice the flag, notice the uniform... NOTICE THE GUN that isn't a paintball gun OR a hand gun.

reply to post by clay2 baraka


Reference the time in the video for me to look please.

Originally posted by mr-lizard

Originally posted by Skellon

I would also like to add that they are carrying paintball guns as their 'main weapons' and a hand gun as a 'live' backup weapon.

Haha yeah...

and these too.

static.guim.co.uk...

Notice the flag, notice the uniform... NOTICE THE GUN that isn't a paintball gun OR a hand gun.

Have you ever heard of non-lethal weapons?

The first example that springs to mind is a shotgun that fires a 'bean-bag'.

Like so:




[edit on 2-6-2010 by Skellon]

www.guardian.co.uk...

20+ seconds into that video (in the above link) - That ISN'T a paintball gun or a handgun. That's a scoped rifle with heavy stock.


1:42 into that video - That is not a paintball gun or a handgun - that's some kind of cannister launcher. Tear gas?

reply to post by Skellon


So explain to me how these non-lethal weapons managed to kill 10+ people please.

I'm eager to learn as always

Originally posted by Skellon
I had not caught the soldier being repeatedly stabbed in the arm and he still didn't respond with live fire at this point. (55 seconds in)

Ha! Brilliant - i've just caught you in the act of spreading DISINFO.

He wasn't stabbed, he was hit with a BLUNT pole.

Wanna prove me wrong? You can't because the VIDEO that YOU posted even says 'METAL ROD'

You can't stab someone with a blunt object.

Sorry but if your own video proves you wrong, there's little else i can do and find another debating opponent.

Anyone know what time wave III are expected?