Reports: Israeli ships attack aid flotilla

Originally posted by Thepreye

Originally posted by Skellon
reply to post by ElijahWan

 

Were the CIA not responsible for creating Hamas?

The ill conceived propoganda tool to be used to gain support against the PLO at the time?

Which back fired on them.

I thought that was pretty much down as being a Mossad operation, blowback schmoback.

Actually Hamas was created by Sheikh Ahmed Ismail Hassan Yassin
WIKI

Hamas gained popularity in Palestinian society by establishing hospitals, education systems, libraries and other services,[2] but it has also claimed responsibility for a number of suicide attacks targeting Israeli civilians, leading to its being characterized by a number of western states as a terrorist organization.[3][4]

See Hamas rose up as a means to keep the people of Gaza ALIVE and WELL. They are deemed a terrorist organization because Israel deems them a terrorist organization. Whereas, in reality, it is ISRAEL who is illegally occupying the land....

Yassin, a quadriplegic who was nearly blind, had used a wheelchair since a sporting accident at the age of 12.[5] He was assassinated when an Israeli helicopter gunship fired a missile at him as he was being wheeled to early morning prayers.[6] His killing, in an attack that claimed the lives of both his bodyguards and nine bystanders, precipitated much criticism of Israel, and many observers suggested that the act would negatively impact the peace process.[6] 200,000 Palestinians attended his funeral procession.[7]

Oh look how brave those Israelis are....Using a GUNSHIP to assassinate an almost BLIND, QUADRIPLEGIC confined to a wheelchair.....

Don't get me wrong....He WAS a terrorist...at least by Definition...By the word Terrorist can be used by ANYONE to describe ANYONE....

I'm sure the Confederacy could have referred to Union troops as "Terrorists" simply because they oppose the Confederacy....Therefore anyone who opposes Israel can be labeled a "terrorist" by them...Hell all those criticizing Israel here might be identified as "E-Terrorists" in some top-secret JIDF/MOSSAD database.

[edit on 6/1/10 by ElijahWan]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

With the Israeli government standing firm on their claim that IDF soldiers were met with severe violence from Gaza aid convoy participants, Just Journalism will be following developments closely and publishing new information on a rolling basis.

Before the incident had occurred, MEMRI had published this footage, with Arabic to English translation, showing participants on board one of the ships chanting violent anti-Jewish slogans before setting sail.

The activists shout: ‘Khaybar, Khaybar, oh Jews, the army of Muhammed will return’ - a reference to a seventh century attack in Khayber, Arabia, by Muhammed and his followers against Jews.

A female activist on the boat is also translated as saying, ‘We are now waiting for one of two good things – either to achieve martyrdom or to reach Gaza.’

The same chants invoking Khayber were also played on loudspeaker to a huge crowd gathered on Saturday in Istanbul to see off the flotilla, as has been broadcast by Turkish television. This footage also includes the repetition of ‘Intifadah! Intifadah!’

Furthermore, Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh on Saturday revealed his view that an interception of the flotilla by Israel would be as much a victory as reaching Gaza. The Jerusalem Post reported:

"If the ships reach Gaza, it's a victory for Gaza," Haniyeh told some 400 supporters after touring Gaza City's small fishing harbor, where several smaller vessels breaking the blockade have docked in the past. "If they are intercepted and terrorized by the Zionists, it will be a victory for Gaza, too, and they will move again in new ships to break the siege of Gaza."

Given the current media narrative of peace activists versus a conventional army, it will be telling, whether this sort of information finds its way into any mainstream coverage of this story. So far, the BBC , The Guardian, The Independent, The Times, The Daily Telegraph and the FT have not included information about these prior demonstrations of militancy amongst the convoy participants.

So far, the convoy organisers, Turkish group, IHH, have an extremely low profile in the reporting of this incident, despite the fact that they are reported to have ties with the Muslim Brotherhood, although an AP report published in The Independent does describe IHH as ‘a Turkish aid group that Israel accuses of having terrorist links.’

www.justjournalism.com...

Interesting?

[edit on 1-6-2010 by Skellon]

Originally posted by Skellon
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

With the Israeli government standing firm on their claim that IDF soldiers were met with severe violence from Gaza aid convoy participants, Just Journalism will be following developments closely and publishing new information on a rolling basis.

Before the incident had occurred, MEMRI had published this footage, with Arabic to English translation, showing participants on board one of the ships chanting violent anti-Jewish slogans before setting sail.

The activists shout: ‘Khaybar, Khaybar, oh Jews, the army of Muhammed will return’ - a reference to a seventh century attack in Khayber, Arabia, by Muhammed and his followers against Jews.

A female activist on the boat is also translated as saying, ‘We are now waiting for one of two good things – either to achieve martyrdom or to reach Gaza.’

The same chants invoking Khayber were also played on loudspeaker to a huge crowd gathered on Saturday in Istanbul to see off the flotilla, as has been broadcast by Turkish television. This footage also includes the repetition of ‘Intifadah! Intifadah!’

Furthermore, Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh on Saturday revealed his view that an interception of the flotilla by Israel would be as much a victory as reaching Gaza. The Jerusalem Post reported:

"If the ships reach Gaza, it's a victory for Gaza," Haniyeh told some 400 supporters after touring Gaza City's small fishing harbor, where several smaller vessels breaking the blockade have docked in the past. "If they are intercepted and terrorized by the Zionists, it will be a victory for Gaza, too, and they will move again in new ships to break the siege of Gaza."

Given the current media narrative of peace activists versus a conventional army, it will be telling, whether this sort of information finds its way into any mainstream coverage of this story. So far, the BBC , The Guardian, The Independent, The Times, The Daily Telegraph and the FT have not included information about these prior demonstrations of militancy amongst the convoy participants.

So far, the convoy organisers, Turkish group, IHH, have an extremely low profile in the reporting of this incident, despite the fact that they are reported to have ties with the Muslim Brotherhood, although an AP report published in The Independent does describe IHH as ‘a Turkish aid group that Israel accuses of having terrorist links.’

www.justjournalism.com...

Interesting?

[edit on 1-6-2010 by Skellon]

No, not really?

I've read a little more into the "justjournalism" website and EVERYTHING on their is PRO-ISRAELI dude....Not much of an un-biased source....should be called "Just Jewish Journalism".

reply to post by ElijahWan


So you are saying these events did not take place?

There are already ways to get aid into Gaza. Why did these folks choose a method they knew was prohibited? Seems to me that if they truly wanted this "HUMANITARIAN AID" to get in then they would have done so another way.

This had nothing to do with aid...they were using "HUMANITARIAN AID" as a cover to try to break a blockade that everyone already knew was being enforced.

Originally posted by princeofpeace
There are already ways to get aid into Gaza. Why did these folks choose a method they knew was prohibited? Seems to me that if they truly wanted this "HUMANITARIAN AID" to get in then they would have done so another way.

This had nothing to do with aid...they were using "HUMANITARIAN AID" as a cover to try to break a blockade that everyone already knew was being enforced.

As previously stated they had no right being there in the first place so regardless of ship contents (which WAS aid) it was illegal for them to stop the flotilla.

Originally posted by Skellon
reply to post by ElijahWan

 

So you are saying these events did not take place?

Even if they did it is not required by law for victims, or supporters of victims, to like the actions of the nation giving them their victim status, if they want to sing anti Israeli songs recalling past losses or victories that's up to them and is in no way criminal or an excuse for a massacre.

reply to post by Skellon


No, I watched the video, though I'm no expert on translation. My point is SO WHAT? So what if they chanted that? Clearly the people found the SIEGE of GAZA to be unjustified and ILLEGAL just as the rest of the International Community and the UNSC does.....The only people who don't think the blockade is illegal are Israel, and anyone pro-Israeli.....EVERYONE else with an unbiased opinion thinks the blockade is illegal.....

The only thing your "quote" proves is that these people were brave humanitarians who found the blockade of Gaza, AND THE SUBSEQUENT STARVATION OF THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE, to be unjustified during Israel's "fight" with the terrorist organization of Hamas......

What the quote DOES NOT prove....is that Israel was justified in their PIRACY in INTERNATIONAL WATERS of NATO CITIZENS and NATO-FLAGGED vessels......

Originally posted by princeofpeace
There are already ways to get aid into Gaza. Why did these folks choose a method they knew was prohibited? Seems to me that if they truly wanted this "HUMANITARIAN AID" to get in then they would have done so another way.

This had nothing to do with aid...they were using "HUMANITARIAN AID" as a cover to try to break a blockade that everyone already knew was being enforced.

Wanna know why they chose to break the Blockade? Because they are BRAVE people like Martin Luther King Jr. ect who will LAY DOWN THEIR LIVES when they see injustice occurring in the world...

INJUSTICE is exactly what the blockade is, as it's not stopping Hamas from getting rockets....(clearly, as they are still firing them no?) and is ONLY starving the people of Gaza, as well as preventing them from getting supplies....

Princeofpeace, I'd like to see you try to live in Gaza with nothing but perhaps a small bucket of water and a slice of bread for dinner.....ONLY THEN can you criticize why these BRAVE PEOPLE would try to break a blockade....

Yer question is like asking "Why would black people have sit-ins in white-only luncheons...."

DUH! Because it's an injustice dude and conscientious people will ALWAYS fight injustice.

Exactly...the flotilla had no reason to be there in the first place!! Finally someone who understands.

Originally posted by diamount

Originally posted by princeofpeace
There are already ways to get aid into Gaza. Why did these folks choose a method they knew was prohibited? Seems to me that if they truly wanted this "HUMANITARIAN AID" to get in then they would have done so another way.

This had nothing to do with aid...they were using "HUMANITARIAN AID" as a cover to try to break a blockade that everyone already knew was being enforced.

As previously stated they had no right being there in the first place so regardless of ship contents (which WAS aid) it was illegal for them to stop the flotilla.

Originally posted by princeofpeace
Exactly...the flotilla had no reason to be there in the first place!! Finally someone who understands.

Originally posted by diamount

Originally posted by princeofpeace
There are already ways to get aid into Gaza. Why did these folks choose a method they knew was prohibited? Seems to me that if they truly wanted this "HUMANITARIAN AID" to get in then they would have done so another way.

This had nothing to do with aid...they were using "HUMANITARIAN AID" as a cover to try to break a blockade that everyone already knew was being enforced.

As previously stated they had no right being there in the first place so regardless of ship contents (which WAS aid) it was illegal for them to stop the flotilla.

WOW, yer almost as good a spin-master as those Israelis....He's talking about the IDF dude....

2nd line

[edit on 6/1/10 by ElijahWan]

Originally posted by princeofpeace
Exactly...the flotilla had no reason to be there in the first place!! Finally someone who understands.

Originally posted by diamount

Originally posted by princeofpeace
There are already ways to get aid into Gaza. Why did these folks choose a method they knew was prohibited? Seems to me that if they truly wanted this "HUMANITARIAN AID" to get in then they would have done so another way.

This had nothing to do with aid...they were using "HUMANITARIAN AID" as a cover to try to break a blockade that everyone already knew was being enforced.

As previously stated they had no right being there in the first place so regardless of ship contents (which WAS aid) it was illegal for them to stop the flotilla.

Perhaps I should of worded it more correctly but yes I was talking about the Israeli Navy.

reply to post by ElijahWan


So I am to believe that in your unbiased view, anything that Israel reports is spin and lies and anything the Arabic media reports is top quality evidence?

Originally posted by Skellon
reply to post by ElijahWan

 

So I am to believe that in your unbiased view, anything that Israel reports is spin and lies and anything the Arabic media reports is top quality evidence?

I don't believe I've used an Arabic media report yet. I've been going from what has been reports by the press here in the US....Which I might add...does have bias towards Israel as well.... just a LOT less than the Haaretz does....

I'm just saying I wouldn't want a robber to report on the robbery in my house after he just robbed me....I'd want a 3rd party to...Hence why I won't trust Israeli Media, or IDF when it comes to evidence. Not that I won't FACTOR that in...I just take their words with a grain of salt man.....

Also...Why would Israeli have a mass-media blackout when it comes to this? If they didn't do anything wrong? What's their goal in not allowing the media to report it? Seems a bit fishy to me.....

[edit on 6/1/10 by ElijahWan]

Just noticed a new thread on ATS by an American Jew. Check out what his fellow American jews are saying about the attack....
ATS Thread

I am an American Jew with a large Jewish family, living in a majority Jewish neighborhood (North East Coast). Today, I had the opportunity to gauge the Jewish American reaction to the recent attack on the flotilla bringing humanitarian aid to Gaza, while attending Memorial Day celebrations in my neighborhood. Most of the Jews that I spoke with today, with the exception of one person, condemned the attack out-right. A few of my Jewish family members and neighbors had the wrong information about what took place. Most of them thought that the flotilla was in Israeli waters with some even thinking that the boats were full of Palestinian terrorists, bringing weapons into Gaza. After getting the facts straight and using my iPhone to source these facts, these few were horrified about what had happened with many of my elders actually getting angry that Israel would do such a thing.

I was actually surprised to see that many, if not most of my neighbors had the correct information on the incident and were angered by it. I heard all day about the holocaust and how Israel was stooping the level of the Nazis, in regards to both Gaza and the West Bank.

Many of the people condemning the attack are otherwise staunch supporters of Israel and Israel's policies towards Palestine. However, all but one person condemned the attack, calling it an act of terrorism on behalf of Israel. I don't see how Jewish supporters of Israel can see just how wrong this attack was, yet many people on this board somehow find the attack justified.

Please remember that many, if not most Jewish Americans, at least in my neck of the woods, are standing against Israel on this latest incident. Even staunch supporters of Israel and Israeli policies can't justify what took place last night.

Also if anyone was looking for STATISTICS on the Middle East Conflict. Check this out: www.ifamericansknew.org...

I think those stats make it quite clear who's doing MOST of the killing. I agree it's not ONLY Israel's fault, the Islamic countries could stop firing on Israel, but I don't think they will do that until Israel pulls out of Gaza and perhaps the West Bank.

[edit on 6/1/10 by ElijahWan]


[edit on 6/1/10 by ElijahWan]

Skellon, I was reading over your very many posts on this Israel thread, and I was wondering if you could answer some questions for me (that are very closely related to your last post BTW).

1. Are you an active member of the IDF (or in the reserves)? (Yes or No only please, in order to observe the member T&C).

2. Are you an Israeli citizen? (Yes or No only please, in order to observe the member T&C).

3. What do you know about this "hasbara brigade" stuff referenced in the following article?

Gaza: Foreign Ministry Media Manipulation

The hasbara brigade strikes again! You always hear about Israeli attempts at media manipulation. Everyone knows it’s going on but usually the process happens through dedicated volunteers like those involved with Giyus. Now, we know that the Israeli foreign ministry itself is orchestrating propaganda efforts designed to fill news websites with pro-Israel arguments and information. A friend has received the following e mail which documents both the efforts and the agency that originated them. The solicitation to become a propagandist also includes a list of media links which the ministry would like flooded with pro-Israel comments:

Dear friends, We hold the military supremacy, yet fail the battle over the international media. We need to buy time for the IDF to succeed, and the least we can do is spare some (additional) minutes on the net. The ministry of foreign affairs is putting great efforts in balancing the media, but we all know it’s a battle of numbers. The more we post, blog, talkback, vote – the more likely we gain positive sentiment. I was asked by the ministry of foreign affairs to arrange a network of volunteers, who are willing to contribute to this effort. If you’re up to it you will receive a daily messages & media package as well as targets. If you wish to participate, please respond to this email.

My friend did so and received this official communique from the ministry with talking points about Operation Solid Lead which s/he was to use in her/his propaganda efforts. Here are the links s/he was asked to respond to: English

www.richardsilverstein.com...

4. What do you know about this "hasbara handbook?"

www.middle-east-info.org...

5. I see a lot of YouTube videos linked above. Strangely, several of them are usually posted by this "idfnadesk" character:

www.youtube.com...

Could "idfnadesk" possibly mean IDF, North American DESK? Actually, looking at that user's page it shows to be from the "IDF Spokesperson's Unit" so I may have already answered that one.

Thanks for your valuable information Skellon.

reply to post by ElijahWan


With all due respect, it has been my belief, since early in this thread that the angry mob on the deck of the Turkish ship were antagonists, prepared to incite violence in the event that the ship was boarded.

I am not pro-Israeli, nor am I pro-Palestinian.

I find the Arab-Israeli conflict too complicated and 'grey' to take a side.

I form my own conclusions based upon the footage released by Aljazeera, Press.TV and the IDF.

In watching the soldiers descend from the IDF Blackhawk helicopter I noticed that the activists/aid workers pulled the fast-rope to the side in an attempt to tie it to the ship, an action that would have endangered the helicopter and passengers on board the ship.

They then proceed to beat the soldiers one by one as they land on deck with metal poles.

I also notice a few of the activists/aid workers wearing gas masks.

Later I noticed that one of these gas mask wearing activists/aid workers is putting up his hand to the camera to hide his identity.

The tactics employed I recognised as being 'counter-insertion' tactics that suited exactly that method of insertion.

I then stood back and applied a little 'human logic' to this situation.

If you fire a gun in a public place then the reaction of the crowd is naturally what?

A) Take cover, 'hit the deck' or run.

B) Aggress the gun weilder with intent on causing serious injury.

I would put money down on A every time as a natural civilian reaction.

This left me with the conclusion that the majority of this 'angry mob' was either military, trained by military or had experienced combat.

I have no doubt that it is possible that genuinley innocent individuals may have joined the antagonists in the bravado, inspired by the group mentality.

In my opinion, this was definately planned in advance.

The reports that have come in since my analysis of the event that is broadcast by atleast 3 different sources, serve to confirm what I saw in the footage.

The IDF reports are more consistent with what I saw on the footage than the reports from Arabic media and blogs.

The Western media are choosing to run with their own different angles on this story for whatever reason. Most of them seem to either skip alot of the details or go with the initial 'atrocity' angle.

I believe the motivation is to conform with 'international condemnation' and to report otherwise would be detremental to them as such a sensative subject could incite rioting against the channel that chooses to 'go against the grain'.

Therefore the 'offical line' is an accepted one. (my speculation here ofc).

In light of the 'piracy' claim, I would agree had Israel not had reason to suspect the trasnport of 'aid' to Gaza as being a method for smuggling money and arms.

They have encountered this in the past and this, in my opinion, gives them reason to suspect any aid that is brought into Gaza as possible munitions for targeting Israel further down the line.

Added to this, the 'Free Gaza' flotilla ignored warnings that its passengers would be detained and cargo seized and searched if they set sail with the intent of breaching the naval blockade.

The 'Free Gaza' organisers had stated their goal of breaching the blockade to transport aid to Gaza for a while now.

To conclude; I believe this was a 'set up' from the get go to incite a PR nightmare for the expected Israeli boarding. The majority of the passengers were probably unaware of this.

It was regrettable that lives were lost, casualties taken, but from a political stand point; this was a Win-Win opportunity.

If they breached the blockade and reached Gaza it would have been a political victory, if they were stopped and boarded then the above mentioned incitement of violence and presence of live media coverage would ensure a PR nightmare for Israel with the expected further international condemnation, this would also have been a political victory.

The organisers promoted this flotilla as a peaceful humanitarian crusade in the face of oppression months in advance, they had the watchfull gaze of the world upon this event.

With the stage set and the concept of multinational peace activists / aid workers Vs. the IDF, it was a sh*t storm in the making for Israel.

I believe Israel was aware of this and chose to board the ships before light to avoid the added lighting making the broadcasts even more of a media frenzy should things not go peacefully, hence they intercepted the ships further out.


[edit on 2-6-2010 by Skellon]

reply to post by rhunter

1. Are you an active member of the IDF (or in the reserves)? (Yes or No only please, in order to observe the member T&C).

Answer : No

2. Are you an Israeli citizen? (Yes or No only please, in order to observe the member T&C).

Answer : No

3. What do you know about this "hasbara brigade" stuff referenced in the following article?

Answer : I suspect that it is possible for such activities to exist at the behest of governments.

[edit on 1-6-2010 by Skellon]

reply to post by Skellon


We'll I guess we'll have to agree to disagree m'friend.

Regardless of who's right, it's not going to affect the international outlook on all this. I guess the next few weeks shall be interesting. Perhaps we can discuss more of the middle-east conflict in future threads that are sure to pop-up.

I'm glad I had the opportunity to hear your point of view as you have mine.

Originally posted by ElijahWan
reply to post by Skellon

 

We'll I guess we'll have to agree to disagree m'friend.

Regardless of who's right, it's not going to affect the international outlook on all this. I guess the next few weeks shall be interesting. Perhaps we can discuss more of the middle-east conflict in future threads that are sure to pop-up.

I'm glad I had the opportunity to hear your point of view as you have mine.

I respect your opinions as I do that of any ATS poster that maintains civility in heated discussion. I have enjoyed intelligent discussion with you and admire your maturity and concluding tone.

Peace.