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Reports: Israeli ships attack aid flotilla

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posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 08:42 PM
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Originally posted by Skellon

Originally posted by Thepreye

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Yeah, self defense is natural thing. This is why it is important who started to shoot first. Or even who started to use violence first, don't you think?
If Israeli soldier started shooting and stabbing people around him ,response would be self defense. If Israeli soldier landed on ship to change its course and was attacked it is a little different.
Even if Israeli action was illegal (and there are people who say that it is , at least here) physically attacking armed soldiers who are not attacking you is not self defense.


No No No the IDF put itself in the position of the party behaving illegally when it initiated the action by firing "warning" shots and illegally rappelling onto the deck, all subsequent actions by the defending party are legal.



So by your reasoning/logic, if someone fires 'warning' shots (I have yet to see evidence of them doing this) they are fair game? You may then proceed to beat them within an inch of their lives?


People behaving like pirates deserve to be treated like pirates that at least must be clear to you, as the initial actions by the IDF were illegal all of their subsequent actions were illegal, they had NO right to be there.




posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 08:43 PM
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reply to post by mr-lizard
 



Yes. Being bushwhacked in our own forum !

Do they imagine they're going to change the paths of history by trying to brainwash us into denying what we know, saw and feel ?

Tell you what ---- they have their work cut out for them when it comes to me. I'm IMPERVIOUS to the Megaphoners. Nor will they weary me

But seriously, israel's jig is up

They hammered a whopping big nail in their coffin with their latest stunt that cost innocent lives

They'll call their mouthpieces off soon, because the mouthpieces are making things worse for israel

and israel just doesn't need any more bad publicity. At least not this week



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 08:45 PM
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reply to post by Thepreye
 



No, no, no


the IDF's actions were NOT legal

The world is judge and jury here

and their verdict is in


Which is WHY israel's tucked its tail between its legs and is now politely delivering the flotilla's cargo to the people of Gaza .... HAND delivering and removing their caps as they do so


[edit on 1-6-2010 by Dock9]



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 08:46 PM
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Originally posted by Dock9
reply to post by Thepreye
 



Legal ?


Don't you need to check your dictionary ?


When you do, you'll find the definition of 'legal' bears no relationship to israel's actions


The illegal action I was referring to was the IDF's act of piracy and murder and the legal actions I referred to were righteous actions of the defenders.

edit to include your next post, if you read both of the posts in context with the posts I was replying to or commenting on my meaning is quite clear, I went back and checked to be sure.

[edit on 1-6-2010 by Thepreye]



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 08:49 PM
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reply to post by Dock9
 


I do not know which thread you have been reading Dock, but this one holds a majority of anti-Israel feeling.

Such blind hate, that in the event that Tel-Aviv and Haifa were nuked, they would still be calling Israel murderers and claiming the perpetrators are poor victims.

You guys are in the wrong line of work, retrain as defence lawyers.






[edit on 1-6-2010 by Skellon]



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 08:52 PM
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Originally posted by Skellon
reply to post by Dock9
 


I do not know which thread you have been reading Dock, but this one holds a majority of anti-Israel feeling.

Such blind hate, that in the event that Tel-Aviv and Haifa were nuked, they would still be calling Israel murderers.


[edit on 1-6-2010 by Skellon]


Disliking the actions of various Israeli regimes or individuals does not equate to being either anti Israel or anti Semitic.



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 08:53 PM
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Originally posted by Thepreye

Originally posted by Skellon
reply to post by Dock9
 


I do not know which thread you have been reading Dock, but this one holds a majority of anti-Israel feeling.

Such blind hate, that in the event that Tel-Aviv and Haifa were nuked, they would still be calling Israel murderers.


[edit on 1-6-2010 by Skellon]


Disliking the actions of various Israeli regimes or individuals does not equate to being either anti Israel or anti Semitic.


If you want to blame anyone, blame the United Nations, as it was the UN that gave the authority for the realisation of Israel as a state.

[edit on 1-6-2010 by Skellon]



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 08:54 PM
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double post - plz delete

[edit on 6/1/10 by ElijahWan]



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 08:57 PM
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Originally posted by Skellon

Originally posted by Thepreye

Originally posted by Skellon
reply to post by Dock9
 


I do not know which thread you have been reading Dock, but this one holds a majority of anti-Israel feeling.

Such blind hate, that in the event that Tel-Aviv and Haifa were nuked, they would still be calling Israel murderers.


[edit on 1-6-2010 by Skellon]


Disliking the actions of various Israeli regimes or individuals does not equate to being either anti Israel or anti Semitic.


If you want to blame anyone, blame the United Nations.


Bit of a stretch as the UN is hog tied by the USA and can't be blamed for not holding Israel to account previously, they've been trying to get an international diplomatic grip on the issue for decades and met solid almost criminal US resistance.



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 08:57 PM
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reply to post by Skellon
 



Now what sort of response were you hoping to elicit with that post ?

I mean, what are you hoping I'll say ?

Why are you whining to me about what other posters say ?

I'll support them to the end and their right to express themselves re: this nauseating 'incident' as israel describes it

Have you see the riots around the world, calling for the dissolution of israel (and that's the mild version) ?

Do you imagine ATS members have any reason to feel LESS outraged than everyone else around the world ?

People in this forum have been a masterpiece of decorum and restraint, imo . Particularly in face of the deliberate provocation inflicted by those who are basically Soldier of Fortune type posters, who will swear loyalty to any master as long as the pay is right

If you think ATS posters are tough, I suggest you take your opinions (such as those you've been pushing in here) out into the street. Double dare you. Phone your dentist and chiropractor first though, to make urgent appointments

People DIED. Are you cognisant of that ? They were happy people, people of conscience, people who cared for other people and for justice to be seen to be done. Now they're dead. Their lives are over. Stolen from them by men with guns

You think that's a joke ? Anyone in your family ever died ? Was that a joke ? Were you laughing ? how would you have felt if others had dropped in to stare at you, to joke at your expense, to provoke you ?

Oh why am I wasting my time. Go on. Do whatever. But don't whine to me about this forum. You don't know how lucky you are to have been treated as courteously as you have been



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 08:59 PM
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Originally posted by Skellon

Originally posted by Thepreye

Originally posted by Skellon
reply to post by Dock9
 


I do not know which thread you have been reading Dock, but this one holds a majority of anti-Israel feeling.

Such blind hate, that in the event that Tel-Aviv and Haifa were nuked, they would still be calling Israel murderers.


[edit on 1-6-2010 by Skellon]


Disliking the actions of various Israeli regimes or individuals does not equate to being either anti Israel or anti Semitic.


If you want to blame anyone, blame the United Nations, as it was the UN that gave the authority for the realisation of Israel as a state.

[edit on 1-6-2010 by Skellon]


Hahaha, the United Nations is a joke dude. They are run by the US/UK, for the US/UK.....Just look at how the response to this incident was..... The US made sure not to condemn Israel in the UNSC statement, even though it's quite clear Israel had NO reason to kill these individuals. They had plenty of other options they could have used that WOULD NOT have led to the deaths of NATO Nations......

NOW they should face the NATO if they can....I'm not expecting us to nuke Tel Aviv or something, nor do I think a nuke should be implemented......but sanctions would be a good start...



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 09:00 PM
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reply to post by Dock9
 



So I have now stated that the killing of 'political activists' is a joke? hmmm



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 09:02 PM
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reply to post by ElijahWan
 


I agree with your post partially, the UN is a joke.

I do not however agree that Israel should be sanctioned.


[edit on 1-6-2010 by Skellon]



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 09:07 PM
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Originally posted by Skellon
reply to post by ElijahWan
 


I agree with your post partially, the UN is joke.

I do not however agree that Israel should be sanctioned.





Under Chapter VII of the Charter, the Security Council can take enforcement measures to maintain or restore international peace and security. Such measures range from economic and/or other sanctions not involving the use of armed force to international military action. The use of mandatory sanctions is intended to apply pressure on a State or entity to comply with the objectives set by the Security Council without resorting to the use of force. Sanctions thus offer the Security Council an important instrument to enforce its decisions. The universal character of the United Nations makes it an especially appropriate body to establish and monitor such measures.


Israel attacked a sovereign Turkish ship in international waters, thus if Turkey chooses to pursue this route, IT IS AN ATTACK ON NATO.

I think the UN should use sanctions to "apply pressure on a State or entity to comply with the objectives set by the Security Council without resorting to the use of force" since EVERYONE in the UN condemns the Gaza Blockade, yet Israel has done NOTHING to stop the blockade. The UNSC as well as NATO as two options than, Sanctions.....or force.....

Now as for WHICH objects the UNSC should enforce I believe it's a little known thing called UNSC Resolution 1860




United Nations Security Council Resolution 1860 is a resolution that was intended to resolve the 2008–09 Gaza War. It was approved by the United Nations Security Council with 14 member states supporting the resolution and one abstaining (the United States) on January 8, 2009, following 13 days of fighting between Israel and Hamas. Explaining the abstention, U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said the U.S. wanted to first see the outcome of the Egyptian peace efforts, but allowed the resolution to go forward because it was a step in the right direction.[1] It was later revealed that the abstention was ordered by U.S. President George W. Bush[2]. Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has said that Bush was acting on his advice.[3][4] The Resolution called for "an immediate ceasefire in Gaza leading to a full Israeli withdrawal, unimpeded provision through Gaza of food, fuel and medical treatment, and intensified international arrangements to prevent arms and ammunition smuggling." All members stressed the importance of an "immediate and durable ceasefire".[1][5] Ultimately, the resolution was unsuccessful as both Israel and Hamas ignored it and the fighting continued.


So there you are...Israel IGNORED the UNSC calls to allow "unimpeded provision through Gaza of food, fuel and medical treatment" , yet Israel has clearly NOT done this and ATTACKED NATO citizens....thus....sanctions should be implemented so that they DO act according to Resolution 1860

[edit on 6/1/10 by ElijahWan]



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 09:16 PM
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the turkish religious right (those in power ) have a lot to gain in turkey amongst the populace with this stand as well...



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 09:16 PM
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reply to post by Skellon
 





So by your reasoning/logic, if someone fires 'warning' shots (I have yet to see evidence of them doing this) they are fair game? You may then proceed to beat them within an inch of their lives with metal poles?


Wow! Just think if the Israelis had warning poles instead of guns, then they could have beat the people that were using poles to an inch of their lives instead of shooting them, and they would still be alive.

You do understand what the word dispraportianate means I take it?

Or do you.

Also which Israeli soldier is hovering within an inch of their life?

Do you really not understand that law enforcement officers manage to disarm people with knives and clubs every day without using lethal force?

Do you even comprehend that 10 people are dead from Israeli Bullets and no one is dead from a pipe?

You are either in complete denial or you simply don't care what the truth is.



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 09:18 PM
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reply to post by ElijahWan
 


www.haaretz.com...

"Yaar added that Israel was justified under international law in acting against the flotilla.

He asserted that international law permitted capturing a vessel attempting to breach a naval blockade, even in international waters, as was the case on Monday."



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 09:19 PM
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Originally posted by Skellon
reply to post by Dock9
 



So I have now stated that the killing of 'political activists' is a joke? hmmm


They were humanitarian aide workers and charitible people, not political activists.

More word games, from the propagandists who want to make acts of charity and helping the needy all about politics.

So that they can make it all about politics.

The politics OF STARVING AND MURDERING PEOPLE.



[edit on 1/6/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 09:19 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Skellon
 







"Do you even comprehend that 10 people are dead from Israeli Bullets and no one is dead from a pipe?

You are either in complete denial or you simply don't care what the truth is."

You see there you go again , we dont know , how many , who , or how they died on that ship yet ..........pure supposition on your behalf



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 09:20 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 



Are you aware that two soldiers were shot by the 'peace activists' ?



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