The Taino - are they alive or extinct?, page 2
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reply posted on 9-6-2010 @ 01:36 PM by halfoldman
reply to post by Blue Shift


An excellent point about the "human zoo", which points to several dangers of Western people's wishes and needs to keep an illusion of certain "pristine" cultures. Take the San (Bushmen) peoples in southern Africa. Many Western anthropologists made their careers by spending a few weeks in the Kalahari, and then writing with great authority on the "prehistoric" hunter-gatherers (when most have been semi-settled and herders since 1900). This view of the San meant that they were denied development aid given to their neighbors from other tribes, and they could enjoy neither the advances of modernism or their pre-colonial lifestyle. They became squatters and ciphers, partly because of anthroplogical discourse. It was almost like: "No, don't give them clothes, us Western Anthropologists need pictures of them naked"!
However, thinking creatively about history, and imagining a time-machine is probably not the same as not appreciating human diversity at present. I mean, I'd love to see how they built pyramids and so forth for many other reasons apart from a "historic zoo".

Of course native peoples today present themselves as they wish, and they have a vast range of semiotic markers to choose from.
When the San people in SA agitated for land rights they toured around in loin cloths (although the skins were made of goatskin, rather than hunted animals). When Native Amricans protested as far back as the 1950s they wore feathers and tribal costumes to picket the stock-exchange and other clothes they no longer (or never) wore to great effect.

So culture is indeed in flux, and it was so before colonialism and remains so now. But, some point of Western imagination always seems to be evoked.

The Taino were colonized for a very long time, since 1492.
So their semiotic markers in the clips above seem like a mixture between various Latin American /Amazonian markers. Columbus described them as naked, but here they seem to indulge in a number of styles that draw attention to their geographical and historical position.



[edit on 9-6-2010 by halfoldman]


reply posted on 11-6-2010 @ 08:46 PM by halfoldman
I'm reminded especially of two "Columbus" films, one a series from 1985, and the other the film: "1492: the Conquest of Paradise" (1992).
Both include terrible neo-colonialist (almost fascist) grandstanding, which is really surprising for post-modern era film.
The first has a stereotypical beach scene with the "Taino", the second associates them more with Amazonian forest tribes, and the Spanish only meet them in the jungle.
I'm having a tough time getting Native American scenes from either, and it's strange how they are obscured.
Well, the 1985 series:
www.youtube.com...
The 1992 material is pretty limited on the Web to Vangelis' anthemic music (www.youtube.com...), and the visuals avoid the Taino. Instead they focus on the central character as an unstoppable manifest destiny, romanticized and eroticized, with some sexy sailor shots. Sword in hand, it seems, destiny blows him to conquer "virgin territory".
Here is a movie still of the "Taino":
film.virtual-history.com...
I wonder if others have versions of various Taino representations in Columbus films?


[edit on 12-6-2010 by halfoldman]


reply posted on 12-6-2010 @ 02:12 AM by halfoldman
reply to post by halfoldman


Strange, because the "Taino" actors differ widely between the 1985 and 1992 versions. One wouldn't really think it was the same people!
The former have at times an almost Polynesian quality, more akin to the "Mutiny on the Bounty" genre.
Despite the bowing to Columbus (cringe), this gets my vote of something closer to the truth.


[edit on 12-6-2010 by halfoldman]


reply posted on 19-6-2010 @ 06:28 AM by halfoldman
reply to post by halfoldman


Interesting to see on the Wikipedia entry on the Taino that concerning their origins some theories say they came from the Andes, rather than the Amazon (as perhaps the Caribs). en.wikipedia.org...
At the time of Columbus there seems to have been a great deal of osmosis between Carib and Taino, although it seems ridiculous to suggest that the Carib posed any danger to the great Taino chiefdoms on the main islands. It's also interesting that the Carib women spoke both Taino and Carib.
Some scholars argue that Columbus described the natives as innocent and beautiful at first, but when he realized increasingly that the "great Khan" and his gold were non-existent, he began describing the people as cannibals and fit for slavery (gotta make a buck somewhere).
Well, the Carib seemed hostile from the start (which is perhaps why they survived for longer) and it is argued that the Taino later teamed up with the Carib to fight the Spanish.
It appears that on Hispaniola the Taino put up fierce resistance under Cacique (chief) Enrique, fighting a "terrorist" war from the mountains. The Spanish eventually allowed the last survivors to return and live in a village unmolested.
The story of Enrique is worthy of a Hollywood movie!
I read about Enrique in a book called "500 Nations", but there's hardly anything on the Internet.
Does anyone have more info?



[edit on 19-6-2010 by halfoldman]

[edit on 19-6-2010 by halfoldman]


reply posted on 22-9-2010 @ 04:53 PM by Chamberf=6
reply to post by Blue Shift



Of course, I live in a city that has many different cultures and nationalities. We are all neighbors here and talk often.

Why would you assume a simple fanciful wish of mine, means I have blinders on to everyone around me, or that I treat other cultures as a "zoo where I would marvel and laugh"????????
You assumptions are far off the mark.

I have done some traveling and would love to do more in the future, but to experience some bygone days in the flesh would be cool too.

edit on 9/22/2010 by Chamberf=6 because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 30-9-2010 @ 12:29 PM by Skid Mark
reply to post by halfoldman



They are both from Puerto Rico. They both claimed Taino ancestry. They're beliefs as a people are still intact. One told me about how a certain humming bird from there is revered because it pollinates their crops.


reply posted on 6-12-2010 @ 12:49 AM by halfoldman
reply to post by halfoldman


The above clip seems to be from the film "Hans Staden" (1999): www.imdb.com...
Apparently there is a real attempt to historically depict various island and Brazilian tribes.
Florida would also be connected to Caribbean culture and lifestyles, so the film "Cabeza de Vaca" could be relevant.
It still seems rather judgmental of indigenous cultures, from people who did far worse.

edit on 6-12-2010 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 13-1-2012 @ 04:18 PM by halfoldman
Haiti, Port-au-Prince (2009).

Carnival: The Arawak (Taino) dance.

The dance commemorates the indigenous people of Haiti.



It seems that during carnival hidden identities surface across the Caribbean.
edit on 13-1-2012 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)


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