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Originally posted by Xtrozero
I got caught up in the whole Atheist/Religious debate and that wasn't my intensions, but what fueled my involvement is the simplistic nature of the OP’s post. To me it is a ridicules statement since there are an uncountable number of factors involved. Atheist as a whole tend to be individuals that do not want or need the group environment and put their strength into their own personal abilities, but is that the best for everyone? Many not only want but thrive in the group environment, and so should we take that away from them when the Atheist feels they do not need that?
Originally posted by Xtrozero
Remove all religion from humans and we would lose other aspects too and not be human, we are what we are..Elephants and sharks and religion and non-religion in the big picture has little to do with that…
Originally posted by Annee
How did you come to this conclusion?
Do you realize you are saying only religion/god qualifies as a group environment?
How does personal responsibility equate to being an isolationist (for lack of a better word).
This is very narrow thinking.
Originally posted by Annee
Nurturing is the key word. Would you like to imply Atheists don't love an nurture their children?
Why can't I say: "I've done everything I can for my children and mankind - - Goodbye - - I turn it over to you.
Its really quite the Ego to think I am more important then that.
Originally posted by Xtrozero
So religious people do not nurture their childern? Did I even use the word childern in my post? Why must you read into it as you do.
Can I ask you a question, why has religion/spiritualism been a part of the human race since our self awareness? Hmm maybe it is because of how our brains operate. Hmm maybe it is a byproduct of our ability to think in the abstract…
Originally posted by Xtrozero
I did not say non-religious people are isolationist, but they tend to not want the support of the group environment that others not only want but thrive in. You are not an Atheist, so are you speaking for them?
Well that is my problem with your logic for you want to broad-brush everything that has led to negative consequences as religion base, but I say that man in general uses many forms of motivators with religion just being one of them.
If you want to label nationalism as a religion too then have at, but then we might as well just put every motivator in to the religious bucket and change the definition to something more general.
Was Japan driven by religion during WWII?
To say that Nazi Germany was motivated by religion that led to WWII is where I really start to lose interest in this discussion.
Originally posted by Xtrozero
Atheist as a whole tend to be individuals that do not want or need the group environment and put their strength into their own personal abilities, but is that the best for everyone? Many not only want but thrive in the group environment, and so should we take that away from them when the Atheist feels they do not need that?
I do not go to Church for I really do not desire the environment it provides, but I do know many others do need it and want it. I look at this topic from the social level and religion is really a small factor in how we think and operate, but many of you seem to feel it is some overpowering driving force that you categorizes everything bad with the human race under it, and that is just not the case.
Do not put yourselves on some pedestal in your pure non-religious thought, for that is what I mainly see with these types of posts for humans are extremely complicated, and what works well for you doesn't mean it is good for everyone else too.
Annee, you are right in many mammals have good socialized structures, but humans posses ALL of them at the same time. We are both elephants and sharks and everything in-between. We are also Atheist and Tibetan monks and everything in-between. You can write 100 books in the intricacies of human nature and just touch the surface and to bring all that down to a debate between Atheist and religious people would be like debating with Einstein that 1+1 is the limits of math.
Remove all religion from humans and we would lose other aspects too and not be human
Originally posted by Xtrozero
Why care? Get what you can while you are alive, who cares about future generations. You and a few others have a spiritual nature and I can see your view points, but many of my Atheist friends are much more about the “I” than the “we”. One of my best friend's son is an Atheistis and is extremely self centered with little empathy for others. I'm not saying all are, but I can see how many can be that way.
Originally posted by Schrecken Licht
Honestly I see no point in the OP OTHER THAN bashing religion.
The problem is that human nature is so complex that such a biased conclusion can only be drawn by someone with a point to make.
Imagine if someone did a study that seemed to conclude that African Americans are more violent than all other races combined. Even if there was a tiny misconstrued kernel of truth hidden somewhere in the data, such a conclusion would quite logically inflame the anger of quite a few people, would it not?
I take a lot of studies about a lot of things with a gigantic grain of salt, and I would imagine many people do the same.
You can find a whole bunch of research saying coffee is really bad for you (and also wine) and you can also find a slew of research putting forth the exact opposite claim. It is another facet of human nature that very few studies of any kind are completely objective - they are underwritten by various interests interested in proving a point.
I have an idea of why certain societies tend to be more violent than others, and it has nothing to do with the general faith of the populace. Some of the safest countries to live in tend to be the most homogeneous with regards to ethnicity, culture and historical background. You have places where people of various diverse backgrounds (and high immigration into or out of the country or both) are present, and this in and of itself can and does cause discord.
I posit that if we could come up with something that would make all people immune to the addictive properties of mind-altering substances, that would go a long, long way to achieving peace.
Originally posted by Schrecken Licht
Even if there was a tiny misconstrued kernel of truth hidden somewhere in the data, such a conclusion would quite logically inflame the anger of quite a few people, would it not?
.............yes I am a Christian
And that was a cult where a mentally ill woman just decided to declare herself a queen and command a few gullible people to do as she said, in the name of her god
Originally posted by orumlight
Then if atheists are so peacefull, could you please stop insulting us, hating us, laughing at us or about our believes? Because that's just mean.
If that study is true then prove it by your actions.
Originally posted by orumlight
Then if atheists are so peacefull, could you please stop insulting us, hating us, laughing at us or about our believes? Because that's just mean.
If that study is true then prove it by your actions.
Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Hitler murdered 6-10 million people, meanwhile Atheists have murdered over 110 million people.
Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
i am not trying to downplay what Hitler, and other maniacs have done, but the claim that Atheism is peaceful is nothing but a sham when history has shown that atheists are capable of worse things than non-atheists.
[edit on 30-5-2010 by ElectricUniverse]