Separate Studies Conclude: Atheism = Peace, Religiosity = Higher Sociological Problems

I'd also like to point out one other thing - it's the "I'm sorry, I didn't meant to offend you" part of your post.
Religious people tend to make the most offensive posts towards other people, seemingly unaware that they are being offensive. I take offense from your posts because I can see the point of what you are saying, and it's clear that you have ill thoughts towards those who don't see it your way. It's also obvious that you just don't understand the viewpoint of those people, and there is also intolerance evident. I hope that now you have a better understanding. Try to see yourself as others see you. Understand why others have called you a "troll".

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Moderation in religion is presumably a good goal as it works well in other areas of life. However, the religious moderate paves the streets for the religious extremist.

I disagree, and I think those who are extremist would still be extreme with or without religion.

Religion allows excuse. "The Devil Made Me Do it"? - - come on . . . AND a "cop out" way out - - - external forgiveness.

If I do something or make a mistake. I am 100% responsible. If I become involved by my own hand or another's in a negative situation - - I am 100% solely responsible for making choices to correct the situation.

As I stated - every thought is an action - because thought is energy. What you think becomes part of the "matrix" - - for eternity.

Personal integrity does not require anything but one's self.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
I keep having a hard time in categorizing "Atheists".

I think Atheist is easy to categorize. It means lack of belief. In hard core science terms that would mean we are simply biological beings that propagate by biological means - and nothing more. Basically "we live - we die" end of story.

However - inject human factor. There are something like 3000 different Christian sects. Why isn't there just One? Because of human factor.

I think anyone who labels them self - - personally determines what that means.

Now we have Humanists. Is that the same thing as Atheist? Or is that a term for a political movement of Atheists? Confusing.

I have determined my label is: Spiritual Humanist.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer


WAS ADOLPH HITLER AN ATHEIST?

I think Hitler used every motivator he could get his hands on, even Norse gods and the occult along with nationalism to name a few. But I think the main point is whether religion was the driving force in his actions or did he have non-religious reasons no matter what his beliefs were.

To bring it closer to home, if I believe in a god, but I go out and rob someone just because I want his money does that mean religion had a part in it? And to further this, is a true Atheist incapable of murder, robbery, rape and a whole host of other wrongs?

Why must it be either the two extremes of Atheist or Religious? I consider myself to be a spiritual being, but not a religious person. I have had many experiences of a spiritual nature, I know that I am a spirit and believe there is an ultimate spirit of which we are each a part, but that knowledge has also led me to reject religion, because it became obvious that most organized religions (especially of the Jewish-Christian-Muslim traditions) were full of untrue doctrines espoused by men who don't really know what they are talking about and try to control people through fear. Violence makes no sense to most people who aren't controlled by fear and darkness.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

I think Hitler used every motivator he could get his hands on, even Norse gods and the occult along with nationalism to name a few. But I think the main point is whether religion was the driving force in his actions or did he have non-religious reasons no matter what his beliefs were.

To bring it closer to home, if I believe in a god, but I go out and rob someone just because I want his money does that mean religion had a part in it? And to further this, is a true Atheist incapable of murder, robbery, rape and a whole host of other wrongs?

Hitler was a very complex person from what I've read of him.

My question is always: "How much was Hitler used"?

Originally posted by Annee

Religion allows excuse. "The Devil Made Me Do it"? - - come on . . . AND a "cop out" way out - - - external forgiveness.

And non-religion doesn't need forgivness so just do what you want to do without care.

If I do something or make a mistake. I am 100% responsible. If I become involved by my own hand or another's in a negative situation - - I am 100% solely responsible for making choices to correct the situation.

Well so am I so what is the difference? The difference is what we view after death, so why care on your part what I think will happen after I die, but while I’m on the earth there is no cop out….

Personal integrity does not require anything but one's self.

So we are just born with a moral compass...ok I agree to a point that for survival man needs to work together, but that doesn’t mean all men need to work together, and they don’t with religion having no part to it. Even back in caveman days man protected their territory from others and man took what they could from others to better themselves if that was a better choice to them than working together.
The people doing all the crimes today are not doing these crimes in the name of god and that is my main point. It doesn’t really matter what your belief is if that belief doesn’t affect your actions.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer


WAS ADOLPH HITLER AN ATHEIST?

I think Hitler used every motivator he could get his hands on, even Norse gods and the occult along with nationalism to name a few. But I think the main point is whether religion was the driving force in his actions or did he have non-religious reasons no matter what his beliefs were.

To bring it closer to home, if I believe in a god, but I go out and rob someone just because I want his money does that mean religion had a part in it? And to further this, is a true Atheist incapable of murder, robbery, rape and a whole host of other wrongs?

I think that if you're religious and you go out and rob someone just because you want his money, you're probably going to end up praying to your god for forgiveness. I think a lot of people believe that God forgives all sins as long as you ask for it.
I also think that a true Atheist is incapable of murder, robbery, rape, and a whole host of other wrongs, and not feel personally responsible. An atheist who feels wrong in his actions condemns himself; he doesn't need you to do it for him, and he doesn't need to be told God hates him.
I think a religious person is also capable of these things, but they're more likely to put responsibility on the higher power. (Did it "for" God, therefore deserves not only forgiveness from sin but praise.) For a religious person to do things like that on their own behalf.. would be odd.

Originally posted by sorgfelt
Why must it be either the two extremes of Atheist or Religious? I consider myself to be a spiritual being, but not a religious person.

I don't think it is really - - but that is what the polls were.

Atheist = personal responsibility.

Spiritual = personal belief - responsibility.

Religion = organized belief with large following of a leader. A Group Think.

Originally posted by Annee

Atheist = personal responsibility.

Spiritual = personal belief - responsibility.

Religion = organized belief with large following of a leader. A Group Think.

So you think it is just that easy and simple?

I kill someone and say "god forgive me" then I go have a glass of beer? Praying gets you nothing if you have not already accepted personal responsibility for your actions, then personally condemn those actions as wrong, and just as importantly strive to correct those wrongs anyway you can. Anything short of this means very little. Praying and the church are just tools to help you get your mind going in the right direction to meet these requirements above. No free ride at all…

[edit on 2-6-2010 by Xtrozero]

Originally posted by Annee
Religion allows excuse. "The Devil Made Me Do it"? - - come on . . . AND a "cop out" way out - - - external forgiveness.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
And non-religion doesn't need forgiveness so just do what you want to do without care.

This particular argument drives me crazy. And I find it to be a ridiculous rebuttal.

Individuals are individuals. Believing in something or not - - does not make anyone moral or good or giving - - - or anything else.

Nurturing - however - within a family - hopefully a loving family - caring for each other - learning to accept each others faults and weaknesses - etc - - definitely has an affect on how someone views life - - how they treat themself and others.

Religion is basically fear based. Doing good out of fear of not getting to Heaven - - and is not moral - - its fear.

Yes - there are those few who truly "walk in his footsteps" - - but most in my experience do what they do out of Fear of God.

Atheists know there will be generations of humans beyond their own existence. It doesn't take a giant leap of faith - - - to understand and want those humans to have a beautiful healthy planet and life experience.

Human to human - - because they are human - of the same species. Why do I need any external reason?

[edit to fix quotes]

[edit on 2-6-2010 by Annee]

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by Annee

Atheist = personal responsibility.

Spiritual = personal belief - responsibility.

Religion = organized belief with large following of a leader. A Group Think.

So you think it is just that easy and simple?

I kill someone and say "god forgive me" then I go have a glass of beer? Praying gets you nothing if you have not already accepted personal responsibility for your actions, then personally condemn those actions as wrong, and just as importantly strive to correct those wrongs anyway you can. Anything short of this means very little. Praying and the church are just tools to help you get your mind going in the right direction to meet these requirements above. No free ride at all…

[edit on 2-6-2010 by Xtrozero]

Is anything that simple? But yes - basically.

If you kill someone - hopefully you go to prison. Lots of prisoners "find God".

Praying - is sending an energy message into the matrix. So is thought. I don't need the ritual to send an energy message.

Congregating - increases energy. Logically - if several people send the same thought into the matrix - - it has a higher percentage of energy.

I am not against church. I happen to belong to one (of course it is a spiritual power of positive thought church).

Giving your "will" away to anyone - is not OK.

If you can believe in something - yet still be independent of "group think" - Great!

reply to post by elocin


That was nicely put.

I know I'm not supposed to do personal Thank Yous - but Thank You.

Originally posted by Annee

Atheists know there will be generations of humans beyond their own existence. It doesn't take a giant leap of faith - - - to understand and want those humans to have a beautiful healthy planet and life experience.

Why care? Get what you can while you are alive, who cares about future generations. You and a few others have a spiritual nature and I can see your view points, but many of my Atheist friends are much more about the “I” than the “we”. One of my best friend's son is an Atheistis and is extremely self centered with little empathy for others. I'm not saying all are, but I can see how many can be that way.

Originally posted by elocin
An atheist who feels wrong in his actions condemns himself

Why should an Atheist feel that any action is wrong....or right? As I posted on Annee's post I see little difference between us in accepting responsibility for one’s actions.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by elocin
An atheist who feels wrong in his actions condemns himself

Why should an Atheist feel that any action is wrong....or right? As I posted on Annee's post I see little difference between us in accepting responsibility for one’s actions.

Why should "God" feel that any action is wrong or right?

Two threads Iv read today that can go along way in proving the lack of a deity, but its all about perception.

The first by a believer who had a stroke, on numerous occasions he referenced god and how it was up to him. Now the funny thing is he did not leave it to god to decide his fate, he went to the local hospital where his fellow man worked miracles.

You will find more often than not, you leave serious illness to your god and you will be killed or in some serious #. Yet the religious will always thank the invisable man more than the team of trained people who just saved their bacon.


The second thread, the sad news of the shooter who shot and killed a lot of people at random in britain. If your religious and something like that happens, your faith or beliefs wont mean a thing. Someone, anyone, can decide to take a life and there is nothing that you can do about it, why would a god just sit back and watch his faithful be punished.

Freewill you say? a meteor hits the earth and wipes out all life on it, religion gone in flash, its the way of the universe, meteors hit planets all the time.

Im not afraid to be the decider of my own destiny and hope to reap what I sow, treat others the way I wish to treated.

Well this is laughable bunk!

It just goes to show that sociologists and psychiatrists are talking rubbish over 90% of the time.

To class Stalinist Soviet Russia as the most peace-loving nation in history is the product of a severely substance abused mind.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by Annee

Atheists know there will be generations of humans beyond their own existence. It doesn't take a giant leap of faith - - - to understand and want those humans to have a beautiful healthy planet and life experience.

many of my Atheist friends are much more about the “I” than the “we”.

Oh the "I" & "We".

I'd say that has far more to do with the "single family unit and do your own thing".

Remember when we people lived in extended families? Remember when we cared for our elderly and older children helped with younger children? Remember when aunts & uncles - sisters & brothers - - - bought homes close to their parents and other relatives?

As my hubby says - the downfall of America is the eradication of the Front Porch.

I don't think the "I" & "We" has anything to do with religion or atheism.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by elocin
An atheist who feels wrong in his actions condemns himself

Why should an Atheist feel that any action is wrong....or right? As I posted on Annee's post I see little difference between us in accepting responsibility for one’s actions.

Atheists are not sociopaths who don't care about what's right and wrong... not believing in God in religious terms does not equal not having a moral compass. If you read my posts, you would see that I see a lot of difference between us in accepting responsibility for one's actions, and I think I did a good enough job at explaining that. As did Annee. All I see you saying is basically "I disagree with you", and that's fine. As long as you understand the point.