Separate Studies Conclude: Atheism = Peace, Religiosity = Higher Sociological Problems

reply to post by elocin


I think if you believe that there is something bigger is out there than just yourself and your lifeforce/soul doesn't just all end at death then you are not an atheist.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
I think if you believe that there is something bigger is out there than just yourself and your lifeforce/soul doesn't just all end at death then you are not an atheist.

Are you sure about that? Atheism essentially means the lack of belief in deities. The above things you referenced really has nothing to do with deities.

S&F

I wholeheartedly agree.

If it wasn't for the 500 years of religious oppression in the dark ages, we would be colonizing space right now.

SM

Originally posted by Xtrozero
reply to post by elocin

 

I think if you believe that there is something bigger is out there than just yourself and your lifeforce/soul doesn't just all end at death then you are not an atheist.

I agree with you, but I think that generally people who call themselves atheists follow that kind of thought line. At some point the term atheist began to mean "not believing in religion" and to a lot of religious people "religious" means exactly the same thing as "spiritual" and you can't be one if you're not the other.. and it also apparently means "not believing in God"... but I honestly don't think there are a lot of people who call themselves atheists and follow exactly any of those definitions. I think atheism to a lot of people means something different than the actual definition, and it should really mean just non-religious.

Originally posted by elocin
.. and it also apparently means "not believing in God"... but I honestly don't think there are a lot of people who call themselves atheists and follow exactly any of those definitions.

This is the correct definition of "atheist" and most follow this definition.

I think atheism to a lot of people means something different than the actual definition, and it should really mean just non-religious.

There are other terms for these definitions actually.

"Non-theist" is commonly used by Michael Shermer, who does not follow religion and has no use nor belief in gods but may be open to new evidence of such.

"Anti-theist" is a term commonly used by Christopher Hitchens and defines not only atheism but a staunch and zealous opposition to religions.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

I think we see this mostly when atheists wear it like a shield in a somewhat aggressive defensive attitude.

One question though, I find your words rather interesting when self describing your beliefs and so why not just say you are religious and keep it simple.

OK - - maybe if Atheists wore some kind of known symbol - - like Christians wear a cross - - I could see the shield you mention. I just do not see or have ever experienced an Atheist starting a discussion on belief (or non-belief). I've only experienced the situation of defense. (I use Christian - because I was raised Christian).

Extremists are Extremists - plain and simple.

Religious/religion is a man made institution in my opinion - - as is god. I do not consider myself of a religion or religious in any way. Now we could have the debate of what is the difference between Spiritual and Religious - - but that belongs in its own thread - - which I believe several already exist on ATS.

I consider myself a Spiritual Humanist - - even though my Spiritual is not in anyway mystical - - but that of "thought energy" which could be considered science.

Partly because of my own life experiences - - I agree with the findings of the data and premise of this thread.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by elocin
.. and it also apparently means "not believing in God"... but I honestly don't think there are a lot of people who call themselves atheists and follow exactly any of those definitions.

This is the correct definition of "atheist" and most follow this definition.

I think atheism to a lot of people means something different than the actual definition, and it should really mean just non-religious.

There are other terms for these definitions actually.

"Non-theist" is commonly used by Michael Shermer, who does not follow religion and has no use nor belief in gods but may be open to new evidence of such.

"Anti-theist" is a term commonly used by Christopher Hitchens and defines not only atheism but a staunch and zealous opposition to religions.

You're completely right, but I still think that there are a lot of people who don't know the exact terms and definitions and just find it easier to say "atheist", especially in situations where they're answering a survey question and see the closest matching response to be "atheist". This study is based on statistics, of which were gathered by surveying. But a lot of people couldn't even tell you the difference between agnosticism and atheism.

Originally posted by elocin
You're completely right, but I still think that there are a lot of people who don't know the exact terms and definitions and just find it easier to say "atheist", especially in situations where they're answering a survey question and see the closest matching response to be "atheist". This study is based on statistics, of which were gathered by surveying. But a lot of people couldn't even tell you the difference between agnosticism and atheism.

Do you think? I don't recall seeing many surveys where it sort of roped people into marking "atheist" on the form. In most cases there seems to be a "no affiliation" or something similar and NO entry for atheist or agnostic! Then again, maybe you and I aren't filling out the same forms

Religion and gods are not supposed to be about creating fear, hatred, and all that BS. Its used as an EXCUSE by some for those things which totally f's everything up for everyone else since they tend to have the loudest voice yet the smallest numbers. So really, worry more about extremist practitioners rather then the religions themselves since they (mostly) are meant to spread peace and love.

It's not Islam, it's the Jihadists.
It's not Christianity, it's the Evangelicals and Puritans (maybe I should put extremist in front of those as the core ideas of those 2 schisms aren't so bad)
etc
etc

Militant atheism is also extremism too FYI though not always for stupid reasons as in religious extremism.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Are you sure about that? Atheism essentially means the lack of belief in deities. The above things you referenced really has nothing to do with deities.

A little more involved definition below, but what I have typically seen with those who call themselves truly Atheist see death as finality and feel that their personal ethics is based on only their own intellectual thought with really zero beliefs in anything outside what can be proven to them.

A person who has beliefs but just not in god do not normally label themselves Atheist, but something else.

Atheism is a doctrine that states that nothing exists but natural phenomena (matter), that thought is a property or function of matter, and that death irreversibly and totally terminates individual organic units. This definition means that there are no forces, phenomena, or entities which exist outside of or apart from physical nature, or which transcend nature, or are “super” natural, nor can there be. Humankind is on its own.

Atheism

[edit on 31-5-2010 by Xtrozero]

the problem is-
people who dont think for themselves and blindly follow a religion, VS people who dont follow a mainstream religion and still believe in the idea of "god".

I happen to be one of these people. I dont follow any religion. But I have an unshakable belief in something that is much more than me.

Im not going to kill people over it. I dont care what you think. I dont care about what you think of me. To each their own.

i think the real problem is ignorance and not thinking for yourself!

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Atheism

Interesting. Thanks for that link. Their definition definitely goes further than the basic functional one that I reference. It would seem logical to include those things I suppose and it does mirror my own thinking. I stand corrected. Thank you.

Originally posted by Xtrozero


A person who has beliefs but just not in god do not normally label themselves Atheist, but something else.

Enter Spiritual Humanist.

Yes - it is a real group - do have their own forum and ordained ministry.

Originally posted by Annee


OK - - maybe if Atheists wore some kind of known symbol - - like Christians wear a cross - - I could see the shield you mention. I just do not see or have ever experienced an Atheist starting a

That is an interesting observation. So how does a religious person pick out an Atheist to bother?

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Xtrozero


A person who has beliefs but just not in god do not normally label themselves Atheist, but something else.

Enter Spiritual Humanist.

Yes - it is a real group - do have their own forum and ordained ministry.

Yep exactly, as with many other spiritual groups.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by Annee


OK - - maybe if Atheists wore some kind of known symbol - - like Christians wear a cross - - I could see the shield you mention. I just do not see or have ever experienced an Atheist starting a

That is an interesting observation. So how does a religious person pick out an Atheist to bother?

That was my question.

Have you ever encountered an Atheist by them asking you what your belief is? I haven't.

However - I know I have had lots of Christians outright ask me if I believe in god and/or Jesus.

My only conclusion is a group setting where someone starts a discussion on religion.

In my experiences though - - - people in a minority primarily keep their mouths shut or give some vague answer.

So I'd like to know where all these aggressive - rude Atheists are being encountered.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by Annee


OK - - maybe if Atheists wore some kind of known symbol - - like Christians wear a cross - - I could see the shield you mention. I just do not see or have ever experienced an Atheist starting a

That is an interesting observation. So how does a religious person pick out an Atheist to bother?

You guys are aware that the symbol in my signature is one of the symbols chosen by atheists to identify themselves? It's the "American Atheist".

More can be found here

I think this entire study/studies and whatever is pointless....all this says is that if we all believed the same things we wouldn't fight....do you need a study for that? I thought it was extremely obvious....and also pointless because I don't think religion is going anywhere.

And I do not believe it is atheism exclusive...effects would be the same if we were all Christian or all Muslim or all Rastafarian or whatever.

[edit on 31-5-2010 by Dennislp3]

Originally posted by Dennislp3
....all this says is that if we all believed the same things we wouldn't fight....do you need a study for that? I thought it was extremely obvious....

That's not entirely true. Even with homogenized belief there would still be conflicts over land, resources, etc. And even with umbrella terms such as christianity or islam there still exists sects within them and those sects would exist even if we all believed one master religion. History shows us that once we believe we have our god on our side that anything goes in terms of conflict resolution through warfare.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

You guys are aware that the symbol in my signature is one of the symbols chosen by atheists to identify themselves? It's the "American Atheist".

Do you wear it like a shield? Sorry - couldn't resist.

There is also a Humanist symbol. There is also a Spiritual Living symbol.

Would you recognize either of the last 2?

Probably not - - but all three are recognized by the military for grave markers.

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I doubt the average religious person would know it is a symbol for Atheism.

Look - I'm 64. Was Christian for about half my life. I have been on both sides of the fence.

GREAT LINK: Religious Tolerance . org. One of my faves.

SUBJECT: if more data like this helps get the bible out of my government - - where can I send a donation?



[edit on 31-5-2010 by Annee]