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Separate Studies Conclude: Atheism = Peace, Religiosity = Higher Sociological Problems

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posted on May, 31 2010 @ 10:58 AM
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reply to post by homeskillet
 


I am talking about spiritualism, not about religion. There is a difference.

BTW, any of you ever heard about eugenics? or about social Darwinism? I wonder who came up with those ideas?...




posted on May, 31 2010 @ 10:59 AM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse

I can't agree with this. You can't just categorize an entire faith or belief-system as being evil.

I was atheist and am for all practical purposes still atheist (I'm still skeptical a God could control things in our universe from outside it, and that He could be above all of infinite universes - I think it's more likely our Gods are ETs - but the investigation continues
)

I have always been more thoughtful and compassionate than most, even before finding out about infinity. Therefore I can say from experience the ability to love and empathize is not dependent on faith or beliefs. Also I don't seek to break the law wherever possible.
I just want to live a quiet humble existence. I think it takes a certain amount of wisdom to rise above the petty judgments and superiority complexes and just accept others unconditionally.



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by Muckster
how can any studies from either side be seen as un-biased when said studies are not promoting their own beliefs so much as trying to undermine their rivals?


Well, perhaps this is why you should simply check out the studies. Neither of them single out any perceived enemies or rivals. They simply study the effects of religiosity on sociological problems. You can draw conclusions from the data as you will. You just have to check out the data



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 11:04 AM
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I will add this:

I am against any type of religion
and
people that believe there is no god is simply out of their minds, but why?

simply because there's no way something or someone or a group of things didnt make this universe, therefore it would be our "god" ... its impossible to assume we came out of nothing, off course there is something else out there

just because we dont understand, we cant say there is nothing, but

yeah, I agree, religious people are sick or ignorant in MY opinion, there is no way to know right now who created everything and if you believe in one of these religion, you probably believe that aliens or whatever created humans from their DNA, thats what says in the bible by the way ....



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 11:04 AM
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reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


Replace religion with education.

Wow, amazingly similar results.


Silly fools.



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 11:05 AM
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Interesting study. I did not see Buddhist or Hindu comparisons. This seems to be a little biased against the three religions that have their basis in the Old Testament and the Ten Commandments and such. Perhaps those conducting the studies felt those religions were not big enough to bother with. Nonetheless, they ARE religions. So by making the claim that Atheists are more peaceful than those that are religious, the claim is made that Atheists are more peaceful than Hindus and Buddhists. This may be true or not, but they may have been intentionally left out.

It also must be understood that many "social disorders" are only disorders from the context of a given society. At the rate things are going and with new proposed changes to the DSM, and other societal redefinitions of individual behavior and thinking, eventually everyone will have a social disorder.
Depending on the society in which you live, just visiting a site like ATS may be enough to label you a terrorist, traitor, or socially maladjusted in some way.



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 11:05 AM
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what a hilarious subject for a thread.

I find it particularly funny that some point to Scandinavian societies as models for the world. They don't have to many conflict zones, but anyone who has lived there knows that you'll find some of the most xenophobic people there.

I don't subscribe to any religion myself, but I'm really reluctant to describe myself as an Atheist nowadays. I'm really fed up with all these people who think they're hot**** just because they don't practice Christianity or Islam or whatever.

And btw guys, have you considered that maybe there are additional reasons for the conflicts in the countries listed in the OP besides religion? like poor education, lack of basic human necessities, war lords who are their own gods, foreign governments kicking them out of their lands to grow opium
, etc.

There are many countries where religion still plays an important role in a lot of the people's lives that are great places to live in or visit.

oh, and stop posting that Muslims are dangerous because they're religious. It just makes you look like idiots. There are in this world liberal Muslims. Not all Muslim women cover their entire bodies, not all Muslim men are brutes, and generally, not all Muslims give a rats ass about America or wherever place you're in.

[edit on 31-5-2010 by The Cap de Pepene]



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 11:06 AM
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reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


Curse you... you pesky... persistent... pain in the... why you little...



ok ok... you win... i'll read the dam report!!

(hopefully sometime tonight)



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 11:10 AM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 




Saying the truth is not "talking down to others"


It is, when you put it like this:



Obviously you don't know much about Communism


I see it differently than you do, that does not make me ignorant. Blinded with cynicism...



Not true? really?... and tell us what does it mean that "peace is the ABSENCE OF OPPOSITION to Socialism"?.... Anyone, and everyone who opposes Socialism must be fought


If you cannot see it past 'DESTROY ALL THAT OPPOSE', than I gave you too much credit. Please try looking from a different perspective. Marx believed socialism to be a peaceful way, and reaching it through a 'perpetual revolution' was necessary to have it.



..... I see, so writing/speaking against INDOCTRINATION is being a moral absolutist.... riiiiight......


One man's junk is another man's treasure.

All I'm going to say.



You seem to think that forcing people to accept Socialism is a good thing.

Since it seems that you agree with Marx of being a warmonger and making people accept Socialism by force is the only way to have peace, it seems obvious that you lack some morality....

By your own admission, and responses, yes YOU do....


No, not in the slightest. Please reread my posts from a different perspective. You are way, way, way off here.



....Marx was an atheist, Engels, was an atheist, Lenin, Stalin, and every Communist dictator, and or philosopher has been an atheist...

Yes it has, when people don't believe they have eternal souls/spirits they think they can get away with anything in this life, as long as the law doesn't catch them. I am not saying every atheist is like that, but they are more prone to think this way.


Please refer to my posts to randyvs for your answers to these quotes here.



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 11:11 AM
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Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

No, history indicates precisely the opposite: that religiosity is the source of far more deaths than atheism.
.........


Sorry but again you are wrong. I gave evidence from a Phd who gathered as many facts as possible about the murders caused by Communism...and Communism is an ATHEIST belief... The mid range estimate is that 110 million people were murdered by Atheism/Communism, meanwhile the high range is 259+ million people murdered, and then there are the people who were imprisoned, many for their political views, and others even for their religious views. Many of these people were sent to "re-education camps" to take out religion, and any political doctrine that was against Communism, when that failed those people were murdered.

As a young child in Communist Cuba my mother would send me to an underground Catholic church in hiding. In fact everyone that was not Catholic, and there were only a few of us because you could never know who to trust, and the Communist regime thought the church was a piano academy, and that we were sent there to learn play piano.

There was always a piano playing, and yes as part of the cover we had to learn to play piano. But somehow it was found out that priests were teaching religion and the church was closed and condemned. We don't know what happened to the priests, there were two of them. Most likely they were sent to prison.

[edit on 31-5-2010 by ElectricUniverse]



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 11:13 AM
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So far yours truly has seen very little concerning the paper "The Chronic Dependence of Popular Religiosity upon Dysfunctional Psychosociological Conditions" by Gregory Paul. I have begun an analysis have have discovered some flaws such as arbitrary definitions, etc. My analysis continues; however, here is some initial results. Gregory Paul uses the International Social Survey Program 1998 Religion II poll (ISSP) to determine religious beliefs. We have from his paper the following:

W Sweden 12 35 47
J Japan 4 31 35
D Denmark 14 31 45
F France 20 37 57
G Germany 19 36 55
E Great Britain 23 25 48
N Norway 18 24 42
H Holland 26 29 55
A Australia 29 24 53
Z New Zealand 31 20 51
C Canada 39 17 56
S Spain 46 16 62
L Switzerland 28 16 44
R Austria 32 15 47
T Italy 48 9 57
I Ireland 50 6 56
U United States 63 8 71

In the list above, the first number is the per cent who "Absolutely believe in God", the second number is the per cent who are "Agnostics and atheists", and the third number is the total. None account for the whole population. For example, in Japan 4% "Absolutely believe in God" and 31% are "Agnostics and atheists", the total is 35%. Now what does the other 65% of the Japanese population believe? Right away I see a problem here because he is not counting or considering any religious belief of the entire population.



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 11:15 AM
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reply to post by sandwiches
 


If you believe in infinity, and if you believe that we posses an immortal soul/spirit, then you are not an atheist. Atheists believe that we are only biological beings, and that there is nothing after death.



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by jagdflieger
Right away I see a problem here because he is not counting or considering any religious belief of the entire population.


To do that would require polling the entire population, would it not?

Can we deny the data because a few unaccounted outliers ?



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 11:21 AM
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honestly, i think we'd still find ways to kill each other if religion suddenly disappeared.



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Sorry but again you are wrong. I gave evidence from a Phd who gathered as many facts as possible about the murders caused by Communism...and Communism is an ATHEIST belief...


Another faulty premise.

Atheism is a lack of belief, particularly in deities.
Communism is a political system and philosophy.

Communism may well have killed millions, but it was the political system, not the lack of belief in deities, that was the source.

Once you detect this error of association you may be able to present a better argument.



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 11:23 AM
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reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


These figures are based on studies within a country (i. e. Japan, Norway, etc.). The numbers computed are on a country by country basis (in short when I say 65% for Japan, that is the figure for that particular country. And 65% is not a "few unaccounted outliers", it is more than half the population.



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 11:24 AM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Atheists believe that we are only biological beings, and that there is nothing after death.


Yet another faulty assumption.

Atheism is simple a lack of belief in deities. Nothing more. You have read things into to atheism that are simply not there.



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 11:29 AM
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Originally posted by jagdflieger
reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


These figures are based on studies within a country (i. e. Japan, Norway, etc.). The numbers computed are on a country by country basis (in short when I say 65% for Japan, that is the figure for that particular country. And 65% is not a "few unaccounted outliers", it is more than half the population.



Could you please list the page number in which it references 65% in regard to Japan? I can't seem to find which area you are referring to.



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 11:30 AM
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Originally posted by bigbert81

I see it differently than you do, that does not make me ignorant. Blinded with cynicism...


Those blinded with cynicism are the people who have never experienced Communism, yet think they know better than those who experienced it.




Originally posted by bigbert81
If you cannot see it past 'DESTROY ALL THAT OPPOSE', than I gave you too much credit. Please try looking from a different perspective. Marx believed socialism to be a peaceful way, and reaching it through a 'perpetual revolution' was necessary to have it.


Oh riiight... i see... so I must see, let me quote it again....

The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism

Oh wow....right... so there is ANOTHER perspective apart from the fact that Marx, and apparently you, agree that Socialism must be forced on people...

You should read more on Marx to see how he favored war, and a constant physical battle against those who oppose Socialism, and Communism...

Some of the best students of Marx were murderers like Che Guevara, castro, Lenin, Stalin, and Mao, among some others...



Originally posted by bigbert81
No, not in the slightest. Please reread my posts from a different perspective. You are way, way, way off here.


You gave that phrase of Marx as proof that he wanted peace....and the only way that sort of peace can be achieved is when there is NO OPPOSITION to Socialism...

This is the problem with most of the people who read Marx and think he wrote about a perfect utopia, they don't understand for some reason what he wrote about...



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 11:32 AM
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reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 

Wow, kinda sad considering Jesus said to love one's neighbor as oneself, to turn the other cheek, and to pray for and bless one's enemies.




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