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Europe and USA

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posted on May, 30 2010 @ 06:42 PM
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Lately i have noticed a trend here on ATS. Maybe its because im relatively new to ATS. But this trend is been happening since the united states began:USA bashing.
Why is there so much bashing going on?

For those of us in the united states let me assure you its not because of the deeds that our government has done that europe hates us.

The simple truth is....europe has pretty much ALWAYS hated us. It is pretty much a fact of life. Europe has always thought of us as violent uncouth idiots. Ever since our nation was founded we have been hated by almost the whole of europe.

I will try to provide some insight into why this is. But first let us define what 'anti-americanism' is.




Definitions of the term anti-Americanism have been much debated. German newspaper publisher and political scientist Josef Joffe suggests five classic aspects of the phenomenon: reducing Americans to stereotypes, believing the United States to have an irremediably evil nature, ascribing to the U.S. establishment a vast conspiratorial power aimed at utterly dominating the globe, holding the United States responsible for all the evils in the world, and seeking to limit the influence of the United States by destroying it or by cutting oneself and one's society off from its polluting products and practices.

There....thats pretty much the definition of anti-americanism that spawns so much of the USA bashing we have seen lately. Those that blame the united states for everything in the world.

Now that we got the definition down pat...let us go into the time machine to the 18th and 19th century...let us see what our ancestors had to deal with on a day to day basis....oh those silly europeans


-Eighteenth century-

THE DEGENERACY THESIS


In the mid- to late-eighteenth century, a theory emerged among some European intellectuals that the New World landmasses were inherently inferior to Europe. The so-called "degeneracy thesis" held that climatic extremes, humidity and other atmospheric conditions in America physically weakened both men and animals. Two authors, James W. Ceaser and Philippe Roger, have interpreted this theory as "a kind of prehistory of anti-Americanism."Purported evidence for the idea included the smallness of American fauna, dogs that ceased to bark, and venomous plants;[20] one theory put forth was that the New World had emerged from the Biblical flood later than the Old World.Native Americans were also held to be feeble, small, and without ardor.

So europeans even had prejudice against the new world itself? Those silly europeans




The theory originated with Comte de Buffon, a leading French naturalist, in his Histoire Naturelle (1766).The French writer Voltaire joined Buffon and others in making the argument.Dutchman Cornelius de Pauw, court philosopher to Frederick II of Prussia became its leading proponent.While Buffon focused on the American biological environment, de Pauw attacked people native to the continent. In 1768, he described America as "degenerate or monstrous" colonies and argued that, "the weakest European could crush them with ease."[


So the europeans were arrogant...lord no..only americans can be arrogant!



The theory was extended to argue that the natural environment of the United States would prevent it from ever producing true culture. Paraphrasing de Pauw, the French Encyclopedist Abbé Raynal wrote, "America has not yet produced a good poet, an able mathematician, one man of genius in a single art or a single science."


Little did that silly european know that this country would pretty much supply the world with all modern sciences.

Electricity

The light bulb

The automobile

Internet

and unfortunently the automic bomb.

Those silly europeans


CULTURE



According to Brendan O'Connor, some Europeans criticized Americans for lacking "taste, grace and civility" and having a brazen and arrogant character.British author Frances Trollope observed in her 1832 book Domestic Manners of the Americans that the greatest difference between England and the United States was "want of refinement.", explaining that "that polish which removes the coarser and rougher parts of our nature is unknown and undreamed of" in America


Like i said....europe has always thought of us as 'un-civilized' brutes. Too bad you europeans cant polish that arrogance!




Other writers critical of American culture and manners included the bishop Talleyrand in France and Charles Dickens in England. Dickens' novel Martin Chuzzlewit (1844) is a ferocious satire on American life. In the novel, Americans are portrayed as snobs, windbags, and hypocrites and the Republic is described as: "so maimed and lame, so full of sores and ulcers, foul to the eye and almost hopeless to the sense, that her best friends turn from the loathsome creature with disgust". Dickens attacked the institution of slavery in America: "Thus the stars wink upon the bloody stripes; and Liberty pulls down her cap upon her eyes, and owns oppression in its vilest aspect for her sister"


Like i said before....its not any action we have taken recently that causes europe to hate us so....they can blame it in our government all they want...but the truth is...they pretty much hate our republic.

You europeans also like to have a sense of moral highground...never mind that you all owned slaves.


I will continue in my second post!

[edit on 30-5-2010 by tauempire]

[edit on 30-5-2010 by tauempire]




posted on May, 30 2010 @ 06:55 PM
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I am an American myself but I can easily see why Europeans would not like us.

We are very inexperienced in the world being founded only 200 years and only very few wars that people have actually experienced. When was the last time us Americans have had war on our soil? Not in our lives. Yet we are the most war hungry country in the world. There is a reason Europe has turned against military agression and supports non-interventionism and pacifism, it's because they know what war is like.

We don't know much about what the rest of the world has had to learn the hard way, yet we are the ones to always walk around preaching what should be done and bossing others around.

We have been isolated from the conflicts that have ravaged the rest of the world, everywhere else except USA and Canada have had serious problems within the last century on their land.

Europeans have been forced to communicate with each other and learn how to do true diplomacy or they could face war with their neighbors. They know about different cultures and ideals, we have been isolated from the world for so long it's hard for us to understand everyone else, yet we lead the world.

I don't think it is some much as a hatred but as just wishing we would stop telling others what to do and forcing our wills down everyone else's throats. And IMO I can't help but agree with them.

The founding fathers wanted to keep us isolated from the world so as to never force anything on anyone, they learned what Europeans were capable of and it was terrible things. They wanted us to be different by being isolated and minding our own business. That is what kept us pure and 'ignorant', but our ignorance had no effect on the world other than angry Europeans who were jealous of us. But now our ignorance is being forced on everyone else and they don't like it.

[edit on 5/30/10 by Misoir]



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 07:07 PM
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Oh let us continue...we have much more...MUCH MUCH MORE!


"French statesman Georges Clemenceau commented: "America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between."

Hmm.....that reflects a bunch of europeans on ATS attitude...i wonder why?



Simon Schama says: "By the end of the nineteenth century, the stereotype of the ugly American—voracious, preachy, mercenary, and bombastically chauvinist—was firmly in place in Europe." O'Connor suggests that such prejudices were rooted in an idealised image of European refinement and that the notion of high European culture pitted against American vulgarity has not disappeared

I know my fellow americans...we should not hate them in return...we should feel sorry for them! They always accused us of being brainwashed....BUT the jokes on them ahaha! They are the ones that are brainwashed!

now on to anoher reason those silly europeans have always hated us.

-POLITICS AND IDEALOGY-



The young United States also faced criticism on political and ideological grounds. Ceaser argues that the Romantic strain of European thought and literature, hostile to the Enlightenment view of reason and obsessed with history and national character, disdained the rationalistic American project. The German poet Nikolaus Lenau commented: "With the expression Bodenlosigkeit (absence of ground), I think I am able to indicate the general character of all American institutions; what we call Fatherland is here only a property insurance scheme." Ceaser argues in his essay that such comments often repurposed the language of degeneracy, and the prejudice came to focus solely on the United States and not Canada and Mexico

So we are the rational ones? BUT...BUT according to europeans we are 'religious,right-wing zealots' who 'have no class' and is 'gun crazy'. Jokes onces again on you...you silly europeans



The nature of American democracy was also questioned. The sentiment was that the country lacked " monarch, aristocracy, strong traditions, official religion, or rigid class system," according to Rubin, and its democracy was attacked by some Europeans in the early nineteenth century as degraded, a travesty, and a failure

Ever wonder why europeans hate capatalism so much? Its not because it is 'unfair' or whatever excuse they give....they pretty much dont like capatalism because WE LOVE IT. No other reason at all....we like it...so they hate it. Cant have anything in common with those brutish americans.


The French Revolution, which was loathed by many European conservatives, also implicated the United States and the idea of creating a constitution on abstract and universal principles. That the country was intended to be a bastion of liberty was also seen as fraudulent given that it had been established with slavery. "How is it that we hear the loudest yelps for liberty among the drivers of negroes?" asked Samuel Johnson in 1775. He famously stated that, "I am willing to love all mankind, except an American."

yep...we are the only ones that have ever had slaves

And that laqst famous quote perfectly sumarizes the european attitude toward is..dont ya think


now...onward to the 20th century!

20th CENTURY

-FACIST CRITIQUES-


Drawing on the ideas of Arthur de Gobineau (1816–82) European fascists decried the supposed degenerating effect of immigration on the racial mix of the American population. The Nazi philosopher Alfred Rosenberg argued that race mixture in the USA made it inferior to countries like Germany which had a supposedly pure-bred racial stock

They were nazi.....what did ya expect

uh oh...the next one is a doozy.....and alot of you on ATS support such a view....you just might be a facist!


Anti-Semitism was another factor in these critiques. The belief that America was ruled by a Jewish conspiracy was common in countries ruled by fascists before and during World War II.The Jews, the assumed puppet masters behind American plans for world domination, were also seen as using jazz in a crafty plan to eliminate racial distinctions.

A doozy right...those dirty rotten jews...controlling us




[edit on 30-5-2010 by tauempire]



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 07:11 PM
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Forgive me but are Americans almost all of them, not from origin European ?



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 07:26 PM
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Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
Forgive me but are Americans almost all of them, not from origin European ?


Yes.



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 07:32 PM
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reply to post by tauempire
 


Sorry chum, the internet was created by an Englishman



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 07:32 PM
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And finally...we have reached our time stop.But...there is still much american hate

So i propose that we find out why they hate us now.

CONTMPERARY REGIONAL ATTITUDES
-CANADA-



Journalists Brendon O'Connor & Martin Griffiths state in their book Anti-Americanism that they would at first glance think that Canadians seem as likely as other to embrace characteristics that are characterised as anti-American. O'Conner and Griffiths include such actions as criticising Americans as a people, or the US as a country as being anti-American often demonising, denigrating and resorting to stereotypes. They have also written that the Anti-Americanism found in Canada had unique qualities, no where else has it been so entrenched for so long, nor so central to the political culture of Canada. Canadian columnist Larry Zolf has written that "anti-Americanism is a core part of the Canadian identity since Day One of this country."

Ever have a canadian be prejudice against you because you are american? Or hear a canadian criticize your country so hatefully my fellow americans...this is why!


Canadian historian Kim Richard Nossal thinks that the a low level attenuated form of anti-Americanism permeates Canadian political culture, though "designed primarily as a means to differentiate Canadians from Americans."

Oh wait...you mean you canadians hate us just as a way to differentiate yourselves from us? hmmm....makes sense to me!


-EUROPE-
(those silly europeans
)



In a 2003 article, Historian David Ellwood identified what he called three great roots of anti-Americanism:

1.)Representations, images and stereotypes (from the birth of the Republic onwards)

2.)The challenge of economic power and the American model of modernization (principally from the 1910s and '20's on)

3.)The organized projection of U.S. political, strategic and ideological power (from World War II on)

He went on to say that expressions of the phenomenon in the last 60 years have contained ever-changing combinations of these elements, the configurations depending on internal crises within the groups or societies articulating them as much as anything done by American society in all its forms


No argument here from me!


Sergio Fabbrini, in a 2004 article wrote that the perceived post 9/11 unilateralism of the 2003 invasion of Iraq fed deep rooted anti-American feeling in Europe, bringing it to the surface. In his article, he highlighted European fears surrounding the Americanization of both the economy, culture and political process of Europe

So you europeans are just afraid of us? Better to be feared then loved...as they say



Following the 2008 South Ossetia War, anti-Americanism was said to have grown amongst the intellectual-political class in Russia too.[citation needed] In response to the conflict with Georgia, Boris Kagarlitsky said: "Ironically, one of the dominant trends here is that we are anti-American because we want to be exactly like America. We are angry that Americans are allowed to invade minor nations and we are not


So...you guys are just kinda jealous.....you guys in europe are looking pretty green!


In Turkey, Anti-American protestors held signs saying “Obama, new president of the American imperialism that is the enemy of the world’s people, your hands are also bloody. Get out of our country.” when Barack Obama visited Turkey. Protestors also shouted phrases such as "Yankee go home" and "Obama go home


Are we imperialistic? or is it just because it is america doing it?


There you have it...ATS....That is why europe and canada hate us....It has something to do with our 'imperialsim' yes...but the large majority of the hate has just been passed down from generation to generation. It is a part of there culture in the same way that guns and the second ammendment is apart of ours.

They have hated us from day one!

So all of you silly europeans that read this...quit being silly!


And yes i got this from WIKI...i was brousing around and found the article...it was a interesting read.

And i know WIKI tends to be mocked on here for being inaccurate.....something i have no idea why for.

i mean...if you scroll all the way down to the bottom at the notes you will find all the links for the information.


And yes if you follow the link you will find i focused on europes views......not latin america or anywhere else.

Give me a break...i just spent 45 minutes doing this crap!

en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 30-5-2010 by tauempire]

[edit on 30-5-2010 by tauempire]



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 07:33 PM
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Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
Forgive me but are Americans almost all of them, not from origin European ?


Not to europeans!



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 07:38 PM
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Originally posted by JakiusFogg
reply to post by tauempire
 


Sorry chum, the internet was created by an Englishman


But Al Gore is not english


Give me some proof!



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 07:39 PM
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reply to post by tauempire
 


Well maybe that only after you decided to forgo your heritage!!!



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 07:40 PM
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reply to post by tauempire
 


Well they didn't leave if they liked it here.


The problem I have with America ( not its citizens )is that they continuously Not mind their own business. That upsets me a little. Almost all the wars and troubles since WW2 are because of their meddling.

I don't know what the world would be like if they didn't.

We got a saying here in the Netherlands.
The Highest trees catch the most wind.



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 07:49 PM
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Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
reply to post by tauempire
 


Well they didn't leave if they liked it here.


The problem I have with America ( not its citizens )is that they continuously Not mind their own business. That upsets me a little. Almost all the wars and troubles since WW2 are because of their meddling.

I don't know what the world would be like if they didn't.

We got a saying here in the Netherlands.
The Highest trees catch the most wind.


But we are a hyperpower...comes with the territory. It is pretty much in the job description to boss you little nations around



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 07:50 PM
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reply to post by tauempire
 


Al Gore!????? Seriously are you joking, deny ignorance!!!!

Look up Sir Tim Berners-Lee

[edit on 30/505/1010 by JakiusFogg]



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 07:50 PM
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reply to post by tauempire
 


Now you know why we hate your guts.


Really I don't know what else it could be.



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 07:55 PM
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Well I think it's mostly about stereotypes.

We austrians are called "schluchtenscheißer" which means somthing like "canyonpoopers" because of the alps. But in fact really nobody wears leather pants and yodels in anymore. Well there is still some of this culture left in small villages in the west.
People living in Vienna are considerd "weana bazis" which means somthing like arrogant prolls in the rest of austria. Heck there are even several preconceptions about every district in vienna... The point is in some cases the sterotypes may be true, but merly as an exception.

Just as an example... The more distance is between locations the more present are the sterotypes. Yes people in the USA are considerd to be naive and live in their own little world not careing about the rest of the planet sometimes. But I know nobody who has been there who thinks this is the case at all.

---

As for the typical anti-americanism.. You can say it still exists, especially in the bush area it was even kind of popular. But I guess this was marly because of the wars, and the "obligation" of nato states to go along with it. (Even here because even as a neutral state they found a way around it in deploying austrian soldiers as un troops..)
The stupidity of all this, when obama visited germany prior to his election this suddenly changed into the opposite direction... They all made to belive that once obama is in office the wars would end etc...


So my point is that most of the feelings of the masses are steered this way or the other.... on purpose.

Propaganda is all there is...


[edit on 30-5-2010 by kybertech]



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 07:57 PM
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Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
reply to post by tauempire
 


Now you know why we hate your guts.


Really I don't know what else it could be.


Sinter Klaas please don't judge all of us by the ignorance of the majority, and yes it is the vast majority that think the same way about our power and influence.

My father is WAY worse than him. He says if our president doesn't like another leader we should kill him and invade his country. I ask him why we should invade a sovereign nation that never harmed us and all he says is because we can. It really makes me angry.

I think we need to mind our own damn business and all countries be treating the same with no exceptions. Sometimes I just want to leave my own country to get away from the ignorance, intolerance and bloated ego.



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 07:59 PM
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Back to the main point.

ten world views the USA like a petulant child or school bully.

You really are just too young as a nation. But unfortunately are getting too big for you boots

Like the rich kid at school who thinks he is better than everyone else!!

That's why we don't always agree with you

because Europe as a group of nations went there about 500 years before the USA existed!! and so the reaction is more of
than hate!

We just like you for your consumer goods!

But your Blatant pride in wastage is really sickening!@



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 08:01 PM
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America thinking it is right ALL of the time would be one problem.

America pushing it's dirty celebrity culture would be another.

America continually flexing it's muscles around the world would be another.

America's rotten Wall Street would be another.

America assuming that everyone wants to be American would be another.

America's inability to see this would be another.

America's greed and control.

America is Rome.


The majority of Americans are wonderful people, it's the machine that is bad.



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 08:03 PM
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Originally posted by Misoir
I think we need to mind our own damn business....


I'll be willing to bet that 99.95 of Americans agree with this.

Problem is, it seems like whenever there's a natural disaster, or civil disorder, or whatever, someone is always screaming, "US! How come YOU aren't doing something about this!!!!"



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 08:09 PM
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reply to post by signal2noise
 


That's part of the problem. Our interference has led to a dependency upon us by undeveloped nations. You don't hear of France screaming for America to help them when they have a problem.

It's not our problem when their is genocide or war, it's not us so why should we get involved other than diplomatically? If we want to be so involved in world affairs maybe we should act as a force for good, try becoming a mediator for world problems.

Such as the problems between Colombia and Venezuela, which we caused.
Between Israel and Palestine, which we caused.
Between North Korea and South Korea.
Between South Sudan and North Sudan.

But we are too hell bent on doing stupid things by our CIA and other lunatics which cause problems which we are then forced to clean up.




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