Our Founding Fathers were Christians, Prove me wrong. You Can't.

reply to post by LeoVirgo


Then move out if your ashamed.

“The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity…I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and the attributes of God.”
[June 28, 1813; Letter to Thomas Jefferson]

“We recognize no Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus!”
[April 18, 1775, on the eve of the Revolutionary War after a British major ordered John Adams, John Hancock, and those with them to disperse in “the name of George the Sovereign King of England." ]

• “[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.”
[letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration was approved by Congress]

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --October 11, 1798

Adams,

I don't know, maybe he was schizophrenic

Article 11

Article 11 has been a point of contention in disputes on the doctrine of separation of church and state as it applies to the founding principles of the United States.
Article 11

Article 11 reads:

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

According to Frank Lambert, Professor of History at Purdue University, the assurances in Article 11 were "intended to allay the fears of the Muslim state by insisting that religion would not govern how the treaty was interpreted and enforced. John Adams and the Senate made clear that the pact was between two sovereign states, not between two religious powers.

en.wikipedia.org...

The treaty of Tripoli remained on the books for eight years, at which time the treaty was renegotiated, and Article 11 was dropped.





[edit on 103131p://bSunday2010 by Stormdancer777]

“It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are 20 gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”

- Thomas Jefferson,

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
deal with it while they were Christians to one extent or another they did not create us as a religious theocracy

John Adams to Thomas Jefferson, April 19, 1817

1813 Adams to Jefferson
nationalhumanitiescenter.org...

The general principals in which the father achieved independence were the principals of Christianity.

Adams's Fast Day Proclamation
John Adams continued the practice, begun in 1775 and adopted under the new federal government by Washington, of issuing fast and thanksgiving day proclamations. In this proclamation, issued at a time when the nation appeared to be on the brink of a war with France, Adams urged the citizens to "acknowledge before God the manifold sins and transgressions with which we are justly chargeable as individuals and as a nation; beseeching him at the same time, of His infinite grace, through the Redeemer of the World, freely to remit all our offences, and to incline us, by His Holy Spirit, to that sincere repentance and reformation which may afford us reason to hope for his inestimable favor and heavenly benediction."

www.loc.gov...

www.loc.gov...

nationalhumanitiescenter.org...

This would be the best of all possible worlds if there were no religion in it, goes on in his letter to say,

Without religion, this world would be something not fit to be mentioned in polite company, I mean hell.

reply to post by Loken68


Are you proud that we took land from the Indians? Are you proud that we bully every land out there>? Are you proud of how long it took us to abolish slavery?

Look, as a person, I am proud of who I am...but I dont have to stand behind the BS of the greed of America. America doesnt make me who I am..which is why I care less what religion or beliefs were of the founding fathers. It proves nothing of sound reason or validation.

My country doesnt make me who I am. I can stand on my own two feet. I have no reason to leave...Im here cause this is where I was born and is where my family is. Im still waiting for it to be all it can be I guess.

Ya know..for a Christian...you are not very friendly. You make threads that revolve around something to do with your religion then spout back at people that dont have agreements with you. You also seem to ignore very valid points made by other posters.

People can spout all day they are Christians...so what? What does that prove? Does that prove they are good people? Does that prove they are not greedy? What is your point with this thread?

Im content with myself and my ways...I dont need to know that my founding fathers were of the same religion or belief as I am. While there are greedy men where ever I would go...there are also good hearted people too. I never said there wasnt. Im just big enough to admit we have made many wrongs.

Your going to have bad and good apples where ever you go...and if your looking at leaders...your likely going to have some greedy people in the bucket. I dont see that as reason for leaving my home land.

reply to post by crazzeeedave


nationalhumanitiescenter.org...

Read these letters between Jefferson and Adams, so much is taken out of context, I suggest instead of quotes we read the whole letters.

Historical word usage

In reference to his Philosophy of Jesus of Nazareth, Thomas Jefferson wrote a letter to John Adams stating:

We must reduce our volume to the simple evangelists, select, even from them, the very words only of Jesus, paring off the Historical word usage

In reference to his Philosophy of Jesus of Nazareth, Thomas Jefferson wrote a letter to John Adams stating:

We must reduce our volume to the simple evangelists, select, even from them, the very words only of Jesus, paring off the amphibologisms into which they have been led, by forgetting often, or not understanding, what had fallen from him, by giving their own misconceptions as his dicta, and expressing unintelligibly for others what they had not understood themselves. into which they have been led, by forgetting often, or not understanding, what had fallen from him, by giving their own misconceptions as his dicta, and expressing unintelligibly for others what they had not understood themselves.

It was the reformation of this `wretched depravity' of morals which Jesus undertook.

The Letters of Thomas Jefferson: 1743-1826

THE CODE OF JESUS

www.let.rug.nl...

WOW what great men.

I feel so inadequate.

[edit on 113131p://bSunday2010 by Stormdancer777]

reply to post by LeoVirgo


A lot of harm was done that cannot be undone, throughout history there were conquers, Native American nation conquered other Native American nations, NA fought on both sides during the revolutionary war.

It Europe's fault,

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


This is true, THEY WERE DEIST. Stop trying to provoke religious arguments, I just joined this site, and already they're making me mad. No one cares... Keep your religion to yourself, or don't, but remember the constitution, specifically the 1st amendment, which is freedom of religion.

reply to post by jdills1196

but remember the constitution, specifically the 1st amendment, which is freedom of religion.

Thank goodness for that!

reply to post by Stormdancer777


Great points Stormdancer

Every religion has a pattern of murdering people who dont believe in their god. So i wouldnt be supprised in an age where starvation from being outcast from a society was a massive threat... that the majority of those ALLOWED TO LIVE BY THE IGNORANT RELIGIOUS would be of their religion.

So pat yourself on the back like the metaphorical wife beater you are.

reply to post by Loken68


You are a religious FANATIC and the one having a thick skull for anyone to get anything through your head!!! Prove me wrong.

Perhaps they were Christians or some semblance thereof.

That doesn't change the fact that "God" in any legal document means the Pope in Rome.

"In fact our money is all part of a religious ceremony which is why it is emblazoned with “In God We Trust..."

Now what you and many people might not realize is, that God is not the presumed deity that sits in heaven, but is in fact God’s legal representative on Earth established in the 11th century, by treaty, the Pontificus Maximus, the Vicar of Christ, which is the Pope in Rome.

You see, Vicar means legal representative and proxy, so where ever you see God appear on a legal instrument, whether it be Money, or in a Treaty, or in a Pledge like our Pledge of Allegiance, or in an oath, like Officers of the Government take, or you swear in a court, God literally and legally means the Pope!

That’s what they don’t tell you."

Source: ATS member ProtoplasmicTraveler @ abovetopsecret.com...

We need to keep church and state separate.

God made all religions. Why are you unhappy about it?

reply to post by Loken68

What moral code do you follow? The founders gave you the right to bash them and bash their religion you do. I have no respect for those that bite the hand that feeds them.

I never bashed the Founders but I certainly wouldn't be afraid to. Surely they were enlightened men, for their time but they were far from perfect and far from infallible. The most glaring example, obviously, is slavery. They preached that all men were equal but kept slaves anyway - it takes a great deal of hypocrisy to do such things.

I have every right to point out the parts of Christianity and the Bible that make no sense.

By the way the Founding Fathers and the Constitution did not FEED us our rights, they merely protected our rights as free human beings from encroachment by the government. Every human being is born entirely 100% free but in the creation of a government and society it is often necessary to protect rights to keep any power that be from usurping them.

If we never pointed out flaws in the Constitution the founders gave us we wouldn't have most of the amendments we have now and slavery would still be allowed. Why don't you just bash Lincoln for "biting the hand that feeds him" when he abolished slavery.



[edit on 31-5-2010 by Titen-Sxull]

Yeah, you are right, it can't be proven too easily, but I'd have to say they were all of their own minds. Most people came to America to be free from the oppressive churches. The "founders" you speak of where Free Masons (rich elite types)!

The founders of the real America were natives, they were not Christians.

I'm going to add, that the folks that don't know much about things (non-founders), are enslaved by "God" so the founders had to keep secret all their real knowledge.

[edit on 31-5-2010 by theuhstuf]

reply to post by kaskade


They wouldn't necessarily be killed at that stage in history. However a person that openly denounced christianity at that point would not have much a career or life. Hell, a person 50 years ago that did such would not.

Our founding fathers were timetraveling atheists who hated british people. Prove me wrong

Yeah most of the Nazi's were some kind of Christians as well, as far as I know.

Pretty sure America was founded on Human principles. Sure some people believed in religions, doesn't make it a religious country though.

In fact, no such things as a religious country. Only religious people.

Land is land, people are people, lets not get the 2 mixed up.

Wow, not one person attempted to disprove the OP.

To those that actually attempted to by linking to an external site, maybe you should have used the founders own words. Well, I guess you couldn't do that so you attempted to obfuscate.

Many of the founders were Christians.

Here is the thing people, it is freedom of religion, not freedom FROM religion.

Sorry to tell the atheists out there, those that follow a spiritual path say NEET upon you.

Now go away before I taunt you a SECOND time.