Our Founding Fathers were Christians, Prove me wrong. You Can't.

So what? Last I checked the US isn't a theocracy...even if some people apparently would want that

It doesn't really matter whether the US was founded by Christians, at least it shouldn't. There's a reason State and church are separated, so no, I don't think we should accept Christian "rules" just because they're Christian. If they are LOGICAL and RATIONAL then sure, why not? If they aren't, then they're rubbish and no, we shouldn't follow them.

I'd like to think people in the 21st century act rationally and logically, and everything that is in the way of that, including religion, should be abolished and ignored. If religion makes people happy, by all means, keep it...people have the freedom to do what makes them happy...as long as it doesn't negatively affect others. Having religious doctrines that aren't logical IS negatively affecting people, so they should be abolished.

For example: Outlawing microchips that could potentially help certain patients just because some retard things they're the "mark of the devil" isn't logical...it's stupid, ignorant, and only supported by brainwashed uneducated believers.


[edit on 30-5-2010 by MrXYZ]

Who cares whether they were Christians or not? As far as I can tell the constitution isn't even relative to anything anymore except "domestic terrorism".

The OP is just stating a fact. Our founding fathers were not buddhists, hindus, taoists, nor muslims. They wanted to openly practice their love of G_D and worship our Lord Jesus Christ.
It's so sad to feel the hatred that comes from some of these posters. They know we are right, and will say anything in an attempt to shout us down.
Fail!

reply to post by Violater1


You're just upset because both you and OP were proven wrong. Why can't you spell God in complete terms?

[edit on 30-5-2010 by Romantic_Rebel]

reply to post by Romantic_Rebel


Because that'd be as scary as drawing Muhammad.

reply to post by junipear


Baloney! People need to grow up and stop being afraid of everything.

reply to post by Romantic_Rebel


Amen brother.

reply to post by Violater1

Originally posted by Violater1
The OP is just stating a fact. Our founding fathers were not buddhists, hindus, taoists, nor muslims. They wanted to openly practice their love of G_D and worship our Lord Jesus Christ.

Well if you want to look at it that way, that's fine. But if they were true Christians, then why did they oddly show such disdain for Christianity?

I need to look no further than John Adams, perhaps the most influtential Founding Father. One of his most famous quotes went something like this:

"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!"

When Adam's was in power, there was a ratification of the Treaty of Peace and Friendship, particularly Article 11 which states:

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion...

Again though, if you really want to continue with 'they were Christian god dammit!' argument, then at least admit that they weren't very good Christians.

The hilarious thing is that if they were Christian or not has ZERO importance today. We live in the 21st century

I notice you list a few as Episcopalian (deist)

This is wrong.
Deist do not belong to any organized religion.

And there has never been any connection between the Episcopalian church and Deism.

Also in those days many Deist that held public office went to church just to show they were church goers.
Not because they believed in that church or any organized religion.

Its like today and Mitt Romney and the Mormon church.
If a candidate today came out and listed his religion as Deist the christian right would go nuts.

Deist are closest in belief to Unitarian's
www.americanunitarian.org...

www.deism.com...
nationalhumanitiescenter.org...

Benjamin Franklin Pennsylvania Deist
John Adams Massachusetts Deist
Robert Treat Paine Massachusetts Deist
James Madison Jr. Virginia Deist
Benjamin Rush Pennsylvania Deist
George Washington Virginia Deist



deism.com...

It seems to be hard to tell what the Founding Fathers were...
There are lots of Christian writings ect..... but then tons of them were freemasons also....
I have studied this alot.... but don't have a list that I think were the good guys and a list of the ones I think were the bad guys.
The washington monument is just a big phallic symbol though... and Washington also has a big statue of him being the goat devil diety... so anyway - hard to tell... I am trying to get enough post to talk about a thread that everyone should take seriously and think about.

There is a truly bizarre desire for some religious psychotics in America to insist that the nation is a christian country (even though it isn't) and the first order of business in this intellectual pilgrimage is to point out that the "founding fathers" were christians.

Many of these founding fathers are probably rolling in their graves at such people and their religio-political psychoses. One thing is certainly clear: these types of religious fascists who insist on their religion being a national foundation were most definitely not successful in instilling their influence in the documents that define this nation.

Benjamin Franklin: “ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel”


This is the writing of a Diest, not a Christian. Please read "The Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin" to get the truth in the own man's words.

As far as Jefferson goes, He re-wrote (well actually cut and paste the text) the bible so that it contained all of the morals and good stuff but left out all the crazy stuff. I don't think the Jeffersonian bible would be touted in most Christian Churches.

Believing in God is not the same as being a Christian. 100 years from now what will I be known as?

Lets get the facts straight here.

reply to post by Loken68


Your argument applies only if being a member of a denominationally affiliated church makes one a Christian.

reply to post by amazing

Believing in God is not the same as being a Christian.

I've noticed a strong trend amongst christians to presume that anybody who talks about "the Lord" or mentions the bible or refers to Jesus must obviously therefore be a christian.

Which is not true,

The majority of "the bible" is the jewish Tanakh. Mormons and jehovah's witnesses both accept the bible as an inspired work. Even muslims accept Jesus as a prophet.

A lot of christians seem to have a difficult time understanding this.



[edit on 30-5-2010 by LordBucket]

Your "proof" that the founding fathers were christians is a list of the christian denominations they belonged to. You did not prove whether or not they had a personal faith in Jesus Christ as their redeemer.

George Washington did attend christian services, but there is no record of him making a profession of faith in Jesus Christ. On communion Sundays he would excuse himself and walk outside as the members partook.
www.infidels.org... "while Washington was very deferential to religion and its ceremonies, like nearly all the founders of the Republic, he was not a Christian, but a Deist."



Many people give christianity lip service, but that doesn't make them born again.

There is more evidence in the architechture of Washington DC that our country was founded on pagan practices than the mere snips of evidence we see at the Supreme Court with the ten commandments and Moses.

I do believe the first couple boat loads of people who came over here were coming to get away from state controlled religion. I believe to some extent they got it wrong too.

I am a believer in Jesus and do have a personal faith in him. I just happened to wake up. I am not a citizen of this planet, I am just passing through. I am a patriot of Heaven.


edited to add quote.

[edit on 30-5-2010 by hardamber]

[edit on 30-5-2010 by hardamber]

Are we talking about the men that came to a land, took claim of the land from the ones that already lived there? Oh, and killed many of them as well cause they didnt do as told?

Are these the men we are talking about? Just want to be clear.



[edit on 30-5-2010 by LeoVirgo]

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
Are we talking about the men that came to a land, took claim of the land from the ones that already lived there? Oh, and killed many of them as well cause they didnt do as told?

Are these the men we are talking about? Just want to be clear.

Historical record shows that the first people who came here were peaceful to the natives. As more showed up, it got ugly for the natives. I am not defending what happened to them. I am part Cherokee and my great great grandmother walked the trail of tears.

I think the point should be...we can all claim to be something...it doesnt make our nature automatically of a humbled nature or our soul or being of a good selfless heart.

I am American and I think alot of our past and present is a shame. It doesnt matter if they were all Christians...alot of their ways were bad natured.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by Loken68

 

The Bible is a very poor moral code. Stoning people, genocide, rape victims having to marry the rapist. People working on the Sabbath should be put to death? The Bible fails as a moral code in every way and in my opinion had almost no influence whatsoever on the formation of America. The teachings of the Bible are counter-intuitive to everything this nation stood for. The only part I can think of that they actually used was the part about slaves obeying their masters, and we know that didn't turn out well.

What moral code do you follow? The founders gave you the right to bash them and bash their religion you do. I have no respect for those that bite the hand that feeds them.