Punishing God. Why not ?

reply to post by LordBucket


I think that is precisely the problem. People only learn or are told halve of the truth.
Leaving the other halve open for well... Whatever.

Anyway. I think we gave the same explanation to MacBeth. About good and evil.

Originally posted by Dock9
reply to post by Sinter Klaas

 

Yes indeed

Been saying the same things myself and even stirred myself to dedicate a thread to the same sort of issues, last week

My thread was along the lines of, ' Why isn't God down here, facing his constituents and facing the music ?'

And I don't blame the child for trying to burn down the church. Smart kid. Independent thinker. Hope she continues to challenge the pitiful sheep

those pitiful sheep who've been programmed to get on their knees and say 'thank you' for all the spits in the eye. And double thank you for the days when there are only half as many spits

But my question (and that of the French child) is ..... why should there be any spits at all ?

]

I have had a few bad things happen to me, but God didn't cause those things to happen..
so you think that every bad or unpleasant thing that happens is God spitting on you?
That is a pretty grim way to evaluate your life... and so based on that you have also concluded that anyone else that has faith and trust in God are all pathetic and decieved? like sheep?

The reason you are maybe interpreting it this way is because you are giving yourself way too much credit, as if you automatically "deserve" better based on your own merit, just by existing you therefor deserve the best that existance can offer?

This mistake that people often do is called foolish self pride... You first have to kick that to the curb and then admit you are just a flyspeck and deserve absolutely nothing on your own merit...
Once you do that, then and only then can you have any success at getting real working and helpful answers from God, by seeking the truth about yourself...

I hope you make it..

reply to post by LordBucket


i notice you seem to be the why not? kind of guy.
you redirect questions so that people will question their beliefs and logic itself.
bravo! it gives me a new angle to think about
but i ask out of curiosity why do you do that?

[edit on 30-5-2010 by ashanu90]

reply to post by alienreality


you say that bad things do not come from god
but believers say everything ever comes from god
make up your mind

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


i guess i cant realy say if she was right or wrong i dont believe in god
but she shows complex thought to want to burn down the church what kid that age would even think of that?

but she also shows ignorance because like someone said brick doesnt burn very well

when i was little and if i had a sibling that died id probably feel like her, but i wouldnt burn a church down because when i believed in god i thought he lived in heaven not at church.

but i dont think she was trying to burn god up, i think she was trying to get him to see her pain, to make a point

reply to post by ashanu90


Hi.

The article is not really about the girl but about why people blame God or not.

When I was 8 my little brother died only 6 years old. It didn't even occurred to me to blame God.

I was raised Christian but I do not think it is the way to go anymore. Reality slapped me out of it, so to say.

reply to post by ashanu90

i notice you
redirect questions so that people will question their
beliefs and logic itself.

Sometimes. Though I've been far more direct about stating my views in this thread than usual.

why do you do that?

What's your goal on ATS? Why are you here? Are you here to convince others to believe the way you do? Or are you here to allow others to convince you of their views? Do you have an agenda to change opinions, be they the opinions of others or your own?

Me? I'm here to encourage people to think for themselves. I may not have all the answers. And the answers I do have may or may not be correct. I don't really benefit much from convincing others to see things my way. But if I can help others to learn to examine their own beliefs and come to their own conclusions...

Everyone benefits from that.

reply to post by LordBucket


i see you point
for me ats is a place for me to vent and when im here and not venting am i just enjoy others peoples thoughts. well most other peoples thought'

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


o i know it wasnt realy about the little girl sometimes i ramble then forget what my original point is. you evear have those kind of days?

reply to post by ashanu90


I know exactly what you mean. I do it all the time...

To be specific, I started this thread because I'd like to get a better understanding of :

Why people punish or blame God Or blame it on the devil, while they thank Him for a slice of bread where a farmer and bakery should be given credit.

Don't let me start about punishing God. IMO when you start to do that I would say that you are completely ignorant to what faith is. ( Not talking about you. )

Anyway...

Usually people make a mistake or whatever and then walk away from their own responsibility by pointing their finger to someone or something else.

I think this is odd, convenient but very disturbing nonetheless. I fail to see how it can make someone feel better about them selves. Surely they know they did something wrong ???

Catch my drift..?

Its strange to me how people generally point their problems towards God... I Believe in God but also realize that the bad things that happen in my life are generally a direct result of my actions and decisions and/ or an indirect result of the actions and decisions made by other people.

IMO God created us, he gave us the ability to choose right from wrong or to believe in God or not to. I mean take a relationship as example... would you want someone to be with you because they have to or would you want that special someone to want to be with you? Its the same with God i believe.

In so saying we have choice, to hurt and destroy or love and make peace. These actions can help or break people around you... But these choices are made by us... not God!

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, will you posters with no Biblical knowledge stop posting rediculous threads and responses. By the things you say I can tell, you haven't EVER read the bible.

reply to post by Gabriel_


I think your explanation is a logical one and I'll have to say I agree.

I've said in a previous post I do not believe in Christianity anymore but that doesn't mean I do not believe anymore.

What you say sounds pretty pleasant actually... I wish every Christian would feel the same way. We would live in a prettier world. Don't you think ?

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
reply to post by ashanu90

 

I know exactly what you mean. I do it all the time...

its always nice to have common ground

Why people punish or blame God Or blame it on the devil, while they thank Him for a slice of bread where a farmer and bakery should be given credit.

i wonder that too!!!!! wow!
when i was little people would say grace before a meal and thank god for the food, and i always thought "why are you thanking god? its the farmer who did all the hard work producing the food you should be thanking him".

Anyway...

Usually people make a mistake or whatever and then walk away from their own responsibility by pointing their finger to someone or something else.

yeah thats the way i always saw it.
"satan made me kill"
no dumbass YOU made you kill

I think this is odd, convenient but very disturbing nonetheless. I fail to see how it can make someone feel better about them selves. Surely they know they did something wrong ???

Catch my drift..?

i understand where your coming from exactly
nobody wants to be held responsible for their actions and blaming god or the devil is just another way to get out of it
its quite sickening really


[edit on 1-6-2010 by ashanu90]

Originally posted by marsvoltafan74
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, will you posters with no Biblical knowledge stop posting rediculous threads and responses. By the things you say I can tell, you haven't EVER read the bible.

maybe they will stop if the people with tons of biblical knowledge post something other tahn bible quotes

it goes both ways

I always LOL and feel horribly sad when I hear people complain about God about the fact he/she/it doesn't do anything to stop al the woos in the world.
For the love of God people, we don't have free will just for kicks.

WE are responsible, we where given choise and this is what we do with it.
God has better things to do then play babysitter, grow up and stop bitching about it and do something with yourselfs and the world around you.
Punishing God, man he/she/it really must feel like the most underapriciaited parent ever.

We are always whining and bottering him to give us stuff. When things don't go as we liked we start bitching and blaming him or her or what ever for it. The fact that "God" has not cleared us out yet, after having to listen to all that whining and bitching, provbes He/She/It loves us all. That or he/she/it doesn't really give a crap about us, because he's more of a big picture kind of diety and we are not in the big picture.

We are supossed to be big boys and girls, let's start acting like it.


[edit on 1-6-2010 by Subjective1]

[edit on 1-6-2010 by Subjective1]

reply to post by Subjective1


The first thing that came up after reading your post was :

Punish me daddy for I have been a naughty girl.

No ridiculing here I respect your opinion and I agree with it.

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
There is a reason we build with brick. That's because it does not burn very well. London had to burn to the ground to discover this but...

She probably didn't know.

this made me laugh!!

Why ? Why do we thank God for all the good and only accept bad things happening to us as His will.

personally, i thank GOD for all things that come my way, be they "good" or "bad." it wasn't always like this for me, but after surviving a particularly trying time in my life, i began to realize something as time went on. everything that had seemed such a curse to me, going through it, ended up bringing me blessings of all kinds. the gain i received that was the richest was wisdom and insight that i have since been able to share with others, hopefully helping them through their own trials and tribulations. and everything i lost that i eventually relinquished willingly (simply because at the time it was the only logical thing to do), i literally got back, only better.

i'm not kidding about that nor am i trying to put in a good plug for GOD. GOD doesn't need me as a PR agent or a promotional banner. i am just sharing the why's of who i am today.

If it is His will should He not get at least noted when someone does not agree with it ?

well, if one believes there is a GOD, and that also that GOD is omniscient, then anytime someone doesn't agree with what happens as a result of GOD's will (according to how they view that idea), then even if they never speak it out loud, GOD would know the nature and degree of their dissatisfaction - which qualifies as being put on notice, imo.

Or does his will mean that everything is already pre-set or faith ?
Maybe you have a different idea ? Please share ?

i do have a different understanding, completely. i don't think anything is ever set in stone, at least that which comes from the will of man.
i do believe we all have free will within the context of our existence; that is to say that we each have the full opportunity to choose from all available options in any given situation.
that being the case, the future is not something written in stone but rather a mist-like, constantly changing, ever-evolving, dynamic potential.

if we are made in the image of our Creator, then both we and our Creator have free will. GOD's will may be freer, simply due to a wider scope of understanding and vision, but all are equally free to choose within respective contexts.

i do think there are some things that GOD does decide, freely within the context of GOD (whatever that may be); things on a worldly global level that affect all mankind perhaps both individually as well as collectively. i also think that even if those things at first seem tragic, that in the end, they are designed to bring about positive change that will be beneficial for all, again both individually as well as collectively.

i am not able to envision a Creator, of such a beautiful world as this one, and of such endlessly intriguing creatures such as humans, who is cruel, egotistical, or short-sighted.

the existence of love, imo, negates the idea of cruelty.

if our Creator were egotistical, i would think that it would be much like the days of Imperial Rome, after the days of Tiberius, when suddenly it was mandatory and compulsory to worship the Emperor as GOD. although a case may be made by some in rebuttal to that, evidenced by the presence and nature of christianity in our present society, i would have to come back with the suggestion that it isn't GOD who made the rules of christianity but rather human beings, just like every other religion.

the complex perfection found in a scientific examination of anything in the natural world defies short-sightedness.

Both options above are not cutting it for me. If it is all pre- determined then why do we have to live it ? Why punish us in the afterlife ? ( For eternity or just a week )

i think we are here to make mistakes and to learn, and most of all, to learn what love IS by experiencing what it IS NOT.

as for punishment in the afterlife, i again suggest that such an idea is a combination of misinterpretation and human tendency to want to bring the divine down to our own level of present incomplete understandings.
we (humanity, in general) believe that punishment is a method toward establishing and maintaining order. but it is not. there is no way that crime can ever be eradicated with laws that if are broken, create a criminal from the lawbreaker.

after all, the laws are made by men. therefore, criminals are also a creation of the human thought process.

the only way to establish and maintain order is to give men their freedom, respect their individuality, and most importantly, to lead by example.

The other says God is in our lives every second and decides who lives or dies for whatever reason there maybe. Could He be wrong ? Can you appeal ?

well, if GOD is believed to also be the Creator of mankind, and of every human being, either directly or indirectly, then is it not logical to expect that *life* and *death* come under that Creator's jurisdiction?

if there were no fear of death, it wouldn't be such an issue. if death were truly understood as a door between this world and the other world, on the other side of that door which can be either "birth" or "death" all depending on which way one is traveling...then there wouldn't be mortal fear and many issues with GOD would no longer be valid.

but this is our biggest hurdle, still.
and the so-called scientific experts who constantly seek ways to explain away things that defy explanation from the current human earthly understanding, such as NDE's and OOBE's, etc., do not help our efforts at all!
there is a truth somewhere between the superstitious politics of religion and the surface-only explanations of physical science - i think of it as metaphysics - and that truth is that which is promised to set us free!

reply to post by queenannie38


Thank you for your post I really enjoyed it.

i'm not kidding about that nor am i trying to put in a good plug for GOD. GOD doesn't need me as a PR agent or a promotional banner. i am just sharing the why's of who i am today.

I would not have started a thread about God if I was not hoping for replies like yours.

I think we are blessed with our intelligence. The moment we start to deny what it brings us because of man's interpretation that it couldn't be true. I think we are on the wrong path.