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Punishing God. Why not ?

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posted on May, 30 2010 @ 04:47 PM
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Hi ATS.

I just read an article about a 12 year old girl that not 1 or 2 but 4 times tried to set a churge on fire.

The girl from a French town called Perreux near Paris tried to set fire in the Saint-Jean-Baptiste-churge. She was offended because God didn't save her sister after a traffic accident.

The child thought this was a good reason to set the churge on fire and hereby punishing God.

Previous attempts were dated from September 2009 and January, February and last on may 2010.

She was caught after leaving a hand print at the crime scene...

This was a translation from a Dutch article. I have not yet find a source in English. Feel free to add.
For those capable of reading the beautiful language of yours truly
Source.

Well... I do not want to discus the article. I posted it because it talks about punishing God.
I've been to France and every churge I saw was build of stone/brick. There is a reason we build with brick. That's because it does not burn very well. London had to burn to the ground to discover this but...
She probably didn't know.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Punishing God.

When you look at all the thank you prayers, it is not so ridiculous IMO.
Nobody ever says thank you for war, famine, crime and so on. What you do hear a lot is this :

It was Gods will. It was supposed to happen. It was faith.


Why ? Why do we thank God for all the good and only accept bad things happening to us as His will.

If it is His will should He not get at least noted when someone does not agree with it ?
Or does his will mean that everything is already pre-set or faith ?
Maybe you have a different idea ? Please share ?

Both options above are not cutting it for me. If it is all pre- determined then why do we have to live it ? Why punish us in the afterlife ? ( For eternity or just a week )

The other says God is in our lives every second and decides who lives or dies for whatever reason there maybe. Could He be wrong ? Can you appeal ?

These are all simple questions with a lot of different answers. I'd like to hear yours.

Kind regards.

~ SK




posted on May, 30 2010 @ 05:09 PM
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reply to post by Sinter Klaas
 


Yes indeed


Been saying the same things myself and even stirred myself to dedicate a thread to the same sort of issues, last week

My thread was along the lines of, ' Why isn't God down here, facing his constituents and facing the music ?'

And I don't blame the child for trying to burn down the church. Smart kid. Independent thinker. Hope she continues to challenge the pitiful sheep

those pitiful sheep who've been programmed to get on their knees and say 'thank you' for all the spits in the eye. And double thank you for the days when there are only half as many spits

But my question (and that of the French child) is ..... why should there be any spits at all ?


And I continue to contend that the world's god-fearing population is suffering collectively from a version of Stockholm syndrome ... cosmic Stockholm syndrome --- because they're so afraid of god that it's become perverted by their minds and has emerged as 'love of the god they fear'. So they say 'thank you' for all the kicks in the face

And when they're challenged as to WHY they are saying 'thank you' for this miserable existence

and when they're asked WHY a supposed 'loving and even 'peace loving' god would visit upon them the hell that is human existence ---- they PANIC ! They flounder ! Their brain's rudder falls off

--- and they come up with gobbly-gook about 'God's Will' --- and all about how 'we' should not 'challenge god's will'

When you ask them WHY any sane god would punish someone who's crazy, perverted, a serial child killer or whatever

they PANIC AGAIN !

They refuse to acknowledge that *IF* this 'god' is responsible for every human that's ever walked -- then it's 'HE' ... their god ... who is responsible not ONLY for the 'bad people', but also for everything they think and do. A child can work it out. Clergy and their flocks apparently cannot

Their other tired old card is to cite 'free will'. Listen to them chanting it over and over. They think if they say it often enough, it will save them from having to use the brain their god supposedly gave them

To listen to them, everything bad in the world is because someone 'evil' exercised 'free will'. So it's not god's fault. No. It's the all inclusive 'free will' clause. Meaning that if you're 'bad' it's because you turned against god .... chose to do so .... and did so because god allowed you to use 'free will'

That's how nuts the human race has become

When they castigate their neighbour or president ----- that neighbour and president do NOT gain advantage from the famous 'free will' clause. Obviously not. When men are executed by the military --- THEY don't get advantage of the 'free will' clause either.

Enemies created by politicians aren't allowed to cite the 'free will' clause

But GOD is apparently let off the hook, thanks to that 'free will' clause and because sheep fear that if they question god, he'll punish them for using their brains


Thank God MY God is not the god of this world

Because the god of this world is a man-made god. He's an invention. It's a wonder he's not tradmarked with the Vatican holding the rights, lol

[edit on 30-5-2010 by Dock9]



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 05:15 PM
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your intentions are not different from god's. you were not placed here by some vindictive asshole who just wants to watch you squirm. We're here to experience and learn about ourself(ves). Life isn't a burden, it's a gift, one which allows for our very existence. we have this incredible tapestry spread out before us in which we can create any story we want to. This just happens to be it. Don't get mad at god because it's just a waste of energy.




posted on May, 30 2010 @ 05:16 PM
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Originally posted by Dock9
reply to post by Sinter Klaas
 


Thank God MY God is not the god of this world



Is your God the God of CAPS and self righteousness?



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 05:31 PM
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reply to post by Sinter Klaas
 




simple questions with a lot of different
answers. I'd like to hear yours.


I am of the opinion that if an individual feels sufficiently motivated to "punish God" that they're willing to act on it, it is healthier for them to do so than to suppress it and feign gratitude that is not genuine.

Truth is more important that playing nice.



Why do we thank God for all the good and only
accept bad things happening to us as His will.


Because many of the more popluar religious schools of thought accept only half of what is. People accept love and beauty and hugs and cuddles and kisses. But they reject pain and suffering and misery. But all of these experiences are available within the realm of that which is "God." I believe that it is acceptable to have preferences. But to claim that the experiences you don't like are not part of All That Is is not truth. Creating a "Satan" to blame the things you don't like on is rejecting a large portion of what God is.



If it is all pre- determined then why do we have to live it ?
Why punish us in the afterlife ?


If you limit yourself to western and judeo-christian schools of thought, these questions may not have satisfactory answers.



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 05:36 PM
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Originally posted by Dock9
reply to post by Sinter Klaas
 


Yes indeed


Been saying the same things myself and even stirred myself to dedicate a thread to the same sort of issues, last week

My thread was along the lines of, ' Why isn't God down here, facing his constituents and facing the music ?'

And I don't blame the child for trying to burn down the church. Smart kid. Independent thinker. Hope she continues to challenge the pitiful sheep

[edit on 30-5-2010 by Dock9]

The hell do you mean smart kid? She tried to burn down a church because she couldn't understand why her sister died. She could have killed innocent people just because she thinks burning a church will teach god a lesson, sure people should question God a hell of a lot more than they do currently, but they shouldn't burn down churches to question him.



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 05:40 PM
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Sorry, but this kid is just a pyromaniac. It it isn't the church, it would be something else.

A Church, is a building, and this kid is just highly disturbed.

Go doesn't live in a church. I feel very sorry for her family. If she disagrees with them, their house might go up in flames.

This is a very disturbed person, who needs mental help, before she hurts some person she doesn't like.



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 05:40 PM
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reply to post by Sinter Klaas
 


I for one think we should once and for all bring God to trial for the genocide of the first born Egyptians.

I don't blame this kid, she's absolutely justified, an omnibenevolent God who sits back and let's people die even if they pray and ask for a miracle should be reprimanded though burning down a church is an indirect and highly illegal way to go about punishing God.



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 05:53 PM
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What if the real God isn't much botherd about buildings made of stone? As it seems the kids plan, has stalled at getting her sibling back.
She should really have put her faith in "God has a plan, in which people die, logic". I mean at least should would be in a whole lot less trouble!
Main obstacle, I see is the church will be rebuilt using money that could otherwise have e.g. gone to Africa-wildlife conservation charities ect.



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 05:55 PM
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Originally posted by Dock9
But my question (and that of the French child) is ..... why should there be any spits at all ?

And I continue to contend that the world's god-fearing population is suffering collectively from a version of Stockholm syndrome ... cosmic Stockholm syndrome --- because they're so afraid of god that it's become perverted by their minds and has emerged as 'love of the god they fear'. So they say 'thank you' for all the kicks in the face

And when they're challenged as to WHY they are saying 'thank you' for this miserable existence


I've never heard/read a comparison of "god-fearing" to the Stockholm syndrome. Brilliant!



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 06:00 PM
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reply to post by CSquared288
 


I had to reply your post to make clear :



  • I do not Blame God.
  • I am Happy with who I am.
  • I am Happy with what I got.
  • I Can be an asshole on occasion.


My question is triggered by all those people who do blame God etc.



[edit on 5/30/2010 by Sinter Klaas]



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 06:10 PM
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People have been thinking about these issues for millennia. The philosophers of the classical age, some very great minds virtually gave up. Socrates is famous for saying that he didn't know anything.

The "Problem of Evil" is real. Philosophers, and religionists of all kinds really don't have it figured out. Many think they do, but we wouldn't even be talking about it if it had really been solved in any real sense.

And the invocation of 'free will' doesn't help that much. From an intuitive perspective, we all seem to accept the notion in general, otherwise, why even bother punishing criminals, if you can't justify retribution? Not to mention, the philosophies that ignore personal responsibility, well, they just fall flat, they don't ring true, they're empty.

Yet, the apparent alternative is not terribly satisfying either. Determinism should logically eradicate moral culpability, but it seems that if even the slightest injustice is done to us, we're ready for blood (as a species anyway).

Then comes along science, and tells us that at the sub-atomic level, "determinism" seems to vanish. BUT, that settles nothing really, recall how Einstein famously spoke for mankind, when he said, "God does not play dice..." Yeah, that old intuitive feeling again...

So, what to do? No, I'm not a guru, I don't have a great answer. But, I do know that much of religion doesn't help things either. You can be a very smart person, and come to accept the notion of "hell". You can study hard, become a theologian, have the logic down pat, know all the counter-arguments...

And then, you look down at the small child, and find yourself wondering how it could ever be possible for such a child to go to that place called "hell". You think to yourself, well, "what if" this child grew up to be Hitler, or Stalin maybe? Shouldn't he then go to hell? It's maddening, but from somewhere down deep in your heart, you know it's not true. You look again at the small child, he is your son...

Instantly, all the logic, the reason, the "proofs" you learned, they go out the window! Because the one thing you DO know, is that your son will NEVER go "there"! And you're now angry, but you're angry at yourself really...

Prior to your realization, you told yourself that the god they taught you about was "good"...but now, your eyes are opened! Whoever that "god" is that has an eternal hell, he is worse than Molech of the Old Testament! For Molech only burned infants to death in his red-hot molten arms, and their screams died down after a minute or two. But "your" god, the god of your fathers perhaps...he burns people FOR EVER!

OBVIOUSLY a god like that should not just be scourged, he should be CRUCIFIED! But darn it, we already did that. Frustrating...

Christianity expresses this visceral "truth", already present in the ancient world. "Whoever" is responsible for this mess down here, well, he deserves to die!

JR MacBeth
MyBlog: Gathering Storms Ahead



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 06:11 PM
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reply to post by Titen-Sxull
 


Well... I get your point however...

To put God on trial for Egypt's new borns, you will have accept that God is indeed responsible instead of the people that simply put the blame on God.

Reply post

I do not think the kid is justified to set fire on a churge.

Someone said she was smart because she thinks for herself. But she does not !
She blames God and the is stupid enough to think it would help te set fire on a churge.
Not really my idea of an intelligent action...

I do think it's healthy to let out the anger instead of cropping it up inside.
The way she vents it is well...
She should try boxing or something.



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 06:19 PM
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reply to post by JR MacBeth
 


I've learned there is no such thing as a 'Cristian' hell.

Please forgive me if it looked like I believe Christianity is the way... I do not.

But I agree with you that good and evil simply are. In mankind however they are a mere part of who we are and only identifiable through another ones perspective.

Not surprising it is this perspective is a little variable and changes with the passage of time and from one individual to another.



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 06:22 PM
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reply to post by Liberal1984
 


I agree the money could be used far better...

Take ( for example ) a look at the Vatican. Did you know they are the largest holder of real estate in the world ?

What marvelous things could have been done with all that money.



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 06:47 PM
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reply to post by JR MacBeth
 





The "Problem of Evil" is real.


It's very simple: Amidst infinity, anything is possible. Your consciousness is one realized possibility out of that infinity. The possibility of cuddling with a kitten is simply a possibility. As is the possibility of being kidnapped and murdered. As is anything else.

What is there to explain?

Consciousness may exhibit preference for one sort of experience or another. Some people like kittens. Some people like kidnapping people and murdering them. The possibility of being kidnapped and murdered is simply that: a possibility.

"Evil" is entirely a matter of perspective on the part of an observer. Some people might not appreciate being kidnapped and murdered. Others...might see it as justice for some previous act. If one person kills a child, you might perceive that as evil. But if the following day that person is shot dead by a stranger, might you perceive that as justice? What about that adorable kitten we cuddle in the first paragraph? Is it an adorable kitten, or a horrible monster that catches live mice and tortures and eats them?

There are events, and there is perception of events. "Evil" is merely a perception.



the invocation of 'free will' doesn't help that much. From an intuitive perspective, we all seem to accept
the notion in general, otherwise, why even bother punishing criminals, if you can't justify retribution?


Mobs have free will too.



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 06:50 PM
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Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
Hi ATS.

I just read an article about a 12 year old girl that not 1 or 2 but 4 times tried to set a churge on fire.

The girl from a French town called Perreux near Paris tried to set fire in the Saint-Jean-Baptiste-churge. She was offended because God didn't save her sister after a traffic accident.

The child thought this was a good reason to set the churge on fire and hereby punishing God.

Previous attempts were dated from September 2009 and January, February and last on may 2010.

She was caught after leaving a hand print at the crime scene...

This was a translation from a Dutch article. I have not yet find a source in English. Feel free to add.
For those capable of reading the beautiful language of yours truly
Source.

Well... I do not want to discus the article. I posted it because it talks about punishing God.
I've been to France and every churge I saw was build of stone/brick. There is a reason we build with brick. That's because it does not burn very well. London had to burn to the ground to discover this but...
She probably didn't know.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Punishing God.

When you look at all the thank you prayers, it is not so ridiculous IMO.
Nobody ever says thank you for war, famine, crime and so on. What you do hear a lot is this :

It was Gods will. It was supposed to happen. It was faith.


Why ? Why do we thank God for all the good and only accept bad things happening to us as His will.

If it is His will should He not get at least noted when someone does not agree with it ?
Or does his will mean that everything is already pre-set or faith ?
Maybe you have a different idea ? Please share ?

Both options above are not cutting it for me. If it is all pre- determined then why do we have to live it ? Why punish us in the afterlife ? ( For eternity or just a week )

The other says God is in our lives every second and decides who lives or dies for whatever reason there maybe. Could He be wrong ? Can you appeal ?

These are all simple questions with a lot of different answers. I'd like to hear yours.

Kind regards.

~ SK



Title not acceptable
U B In for a LONG road
Best to You in this one



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 06:51 PM
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reply to post by Sinter Klaas
 


I don't believe in God and I honestly don't think the Egypt story ever happened, I was just making a point that if God indulges in Genocide how can they still call him good or loving or merciful?

I don't think she's justified in burning it down but I think her anger itself is fully justified. To children God is often very real mainly because of indoctrination so I can understand why she's so angry. That doesn't mean its okay to become an arsonist, I just meant that I think her anger is justified.



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 06:54 PM
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reply to post by Titen-Sxull
 


Thank you.

I knew. I always enjoy reading your posts


Children are just as easily being fooled to believe in Santa Clause.



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 06:56 PM
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reply to post by SANTA CLAWS
 


Why ? Do you expect someone is looking for justice to defend his or her believe ?

I don't think I asked an offensive question.


Anyway...

Thanks for the heads up.



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