Revelation; Satan fell from Heaven

Originally posted by Limegreen

Originally posted by Target Earth
Satan might still have access to Heaven, He would still have access according to the book of Job. He is still the King of the Earth.

Satan was cast out of heaven and he cannot go back in since "no unclean thing shall enter the kingdom of God"
also, satan is ruler of this world and the face of the waters.

I took Target Earth's original comment to mean that Satan can still accuse people (not under Christ) of their sins. Access in that sense, which is the kind of access he had in Job.

But we come up against the ambiguity of the word "heaven". Of course in many places it means "the presence of God". But in Ephesians ch6 v12 it is the "world rulers of this present darkness...the spiritual hosts of wickedness" who are occupying "the heavenly places", so in that reference the phrase clearly has a slightly different meaning.

I referred to my previous "woman in heaven" thread, and meant to add a link.
I'm adding it now. Please see below.

Revelation; Woman in Heaven

Originally posted by Limegreen

Originally posted by Target Earth
Satan might still have access to Heaven, He would still have access according to the book of Job. He is still the King of the Earth.

Satan was cast out of heaven and he cannot go back in since "no unclean thing shall enter the kingdom of God"
also, satan is ruler of this world and the face of the waters.

I was taught , that not only was he cast out, but there is more than one level to heaven and he again is bound by Michael, in a part of Heaven , because there will be a casting out of satan from heaven, it will be the anti-christs grand entrance.

Originally posted by toasted

I was taught , that not only was he cast out, but there is more than one level to heaven and he again is bound by Michael, in a part of Heaven , because there will be a casting out of satan from heaven, it will be the anti-christs grand entrance.

It seems to me that you're thinking of the events described in Revelation ch20.
Yes, I'm going to come to that chapter in due course. But not for a while yet.

reply to post by DISRAELI


Who gives a rat's A** wheter he fell from the heaves or the sky...

reply to post by saabacura

This thread is designed for the attention of people who are interested.
The whole predictions and prophecies forum is designed for the attention of people who are interested in ancient prophecies, and the book Revelation is an ancient prophecy.

just support for your thread.

just support for your thread.

just support for your thread.

Revelation 12 deals with the 3 earth ages

Pastor Murray may conflict with you current understanding, but watch with an open mind and open heart and pray for understanding.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

Praise Yahweh....

[edit on 9-6-2010 by toasted]

www.belowtopsecret.com...

[url=http://]http://www.belowtopsecret.com/forum/thread419600/pg1[/url

posted before but relevant i think.


[edit on 9-6-2010 by albertfothergill]

reply to post by chenshow


I hope you visit the youtube links

so much is lost between trying to explain our understanding or my understanding, to be able to hear the man himself, chapter by chapter and verse by verse is something I look forward almost everyday

Originally posted by toasted

I hope you visit the youtube links

Thank you for posting those links. I was on holiday at the time, but I've just come back and had the chance to catch up.

Yes, I found them interesting.
From my point of view, though, there seem to be important things that the Pastor's leaving out.
On the subject of this particular thread; I was drawing attention to the connection between the work of Christ and the fall of Satan, and he does not bring this point into consideration.
Similarly, moving on to the next part of the chapter, he does not notice the Exodus allusions (e.g. in respect of the earth "opening up") which I was discussing in the more recent thread as attached;

On an eagle's wings

My approach may be unfamiliar, but I like to think that it has a solid Biblical basis. If my approach can draw people's attention to points which more popular interpreters are missing, then it must be worth taking into consideration

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by toasted

I hope you visit the youtube links

Thank you for posting those links. I was on holiday at the time, but I've just come back and had the chance to catch up.

Yes, I found them interesting.
From my point of view, though, there seem to be important things that the Pastor's leaving out.
On the subject of this particular thread; I was drawing attention to the connection between the work of Christ and the fall of Satan, and he does not bring this point into consideration.
Similarly, moving on to the next part of the chapter, he does not notice the Exodus allusions (e.g. in respect of the earth "opening up") which I was discussing in the more recent thread as attached;

On an eagle's wings

My approach may be unfamiliar, but I like to think that it has a solid Biblical basis. If my approach can draw people's attention to points which more popular interpreters are missing, then it must be worth taking into consideration

I'm not sure how popular he is....I've heard chuck swindol and charles stanley and they are ok, but I don't get from them the same as I get from pastor murray.

I'm glad you took the time....and sorry you felt they fell short and aren't as impressed with him as I am....perhaps a personal preference for a diff style....maybe a po-tay-to/po-tah-to thing....maybe you need to listen a bit more....not sure

Sounds like you are comparing a book teaching to a sermon or a commentary tho....and he may have a sermon that addresses those points.....

I'll keep an eye out for anything he has that addresses that comparison

Originally posted by toasted

I'll keep an eye out for anything he has that addresses that comparison

Yes, please do keep bringing things to my attention if they might be interesting. I'll always be willing to have a look.

No, I don't think difference of accent was a factor. It's more about styles of interpretation. ways of treating the text. My own approach is rather individualistic (but sound, I think), so it doesn't necessarily fit in with other approaches.

Anyway, thank you for continuing the discussion.

I now add a link to my most recent thread;
The Lamb and the scroll

The connection is that both threads end with the observation that "the Atonement is the driving force at the heart of Revelation". They go together, because they are making the same point.

Incidentally, I think I owe Milton an apology. I had assumed that the "battle in heaven and fall of Satan" described in Paradise Lost was his interpretation of Revelation ch12.
However, reading him again more closely, I notice a reference to a "later fall"- so he does actually distinguish between the two events.

"O for that warning voice, which he who saw
The Apocalypse heard cry in Heaven aloud,
Then when the dragon put to second rout
Came furious down to be revenged on men"- Book IV ll1-4 (my italics)

Originally posted by DISRAELI
The child is born and then "caught up to God and to his throne". The defeat and downfall of Satan follows immediately afterwards.

During this Christmas season, it's appropriate for us to remind ourselves of the ultimate purpose of the birth being celebrated.
This chapter, the dramatised Atonement, is one of the side-effects of the Nativity story.

not to nitpick or anything, but satan in Hebrew means simply 'adversary'. HaSatan would be 'the adversary' as Heh is the definite article.

reply to post by dontreally

I am aware of the Hebrew meaning, and make use of it in the OP.
But I give the name as "Satan", because that's how it is given in the chapter which I am interpreting.
I concentrate on the traditional Jewish understanding of the term, that Satan is essentially the "accuser", just as he is described in this chapter.

The teaching of accepting a "scapegoat" sacrifice is a wrong philosophy. This is not only the basis of Christianity, but this idea of "transferring" your sin to something else and getting off scott free is a backwards evil teaching that corrupts people into believing they do not have to take responsibility for their actions.

It is this scapegoat sacrifice that is referred to in Revelation 18 as the deception that is misleading all the nations.

The reasoning is explained in detail on this thread below.

The Dark Secret of Christianity: Pharmakia
www.abovetopsecret.com...