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Near-death experiences 'explained': Scientists believe it's the last gasp of a dying brain

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posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 08:26 AM
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Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by tiger5
 




So why is there a similarity of visions?


Have you ever had a dream that you were flying? What about a dream in which you get that feeling of falling? Human dreams often have common themes and human brain chemistry between individuals is not all that different. Simply because they have similarities doesn't mean they're is something paranormal going on. Zeus may have similarities with Thor and Jesus may have similarities with Krishna but we don't start assuming they're real because of that do we?

yeah but its not like some people report flying, some people report feeling of falling. everyone reports same thing... or near enough. If it were purely hallucination you'd expect to see completely different experiences with nothing common amongst them all.

Also, reading peoples stories about taking '___', all their experiences seem to share commonalities, people often report experiencing the same things as each other. If it is just a hallucinatory drug, how come the hallucinations seem to be the same? can't really call them hallucinations then can you?

brain releases dmt when you born, when you sleep, when you die. sounds to me like something to help the soul transition.




posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 09:32 AM
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Originally posted by nightrun
reply to post by wigit
 


As far as I knew, the release of '___' in the pineal gland was the cause of near death visions. '___' also releases when you sleep so it's like hallucinogenic stuff and then there's the "drug" '___' which is the same stuff but can give you a peek into a different world as well.



the one thief at the Calvery/Golgotha crucifixion scene was promised to ''be in Paradise this very day"
at least according to scripture...

this vision-of-Paradise, promised to the one repentant criminal, was an insight that Jesus had knowledge of
from his learning the occult science of his day...

Jesus 'knew' the unrepentant and hardened criminal beside him did not have the mental constitution
or make-up to have a '___', near-death epiphany and end-of-life ecstacy like the repentant crook
who was sticking up for Jesus as they all three were being crucified and in extreme pain.

see - a hard heart shuts off most of the nice things that can happen to you... the good thief wasn't 'blessed'
or special or given grace by the guy in the middle, Jesus INRI... its just that the hard hearted criminal
had cut himself off from the natural end-of-life, NDE reward



posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 09:46 AM
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IMO, near death experiences are the Gods way of proving the after life to the communicative inhabitants of the universe. Although, I do not believe in the after life. I think the Gods wanted us to think it exists, so we would be happy little lines of code (perhaps metaphorical).
edit on 9-1-2011 by sliceNodice because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 09:53 AM
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From reading about many NDE....there are some similarities...but there are also often some very personal experiences that are very different.

As my mothers kidneys began to fail her, and the doctors unaware of it for several hours...she began to have visions while unconscious and conscious. She had these visions/experiences for 9 hours before being flown to a bigger hospital to place her on life support which saved her life.

I have seen many that experience 'judging' their own self...watching their life and experiencing what their actions were and how they effected other people....as well as what other people had done to her, and a understanding was gained of why.

She seemed to experience 'levels'. 1st one very earthly....second one still a bit earthly but spiritual with past experiences of earth and herself....3rd was other worldly.

The most curious thing about it all....was when she would wake for a few minutes here and there....she saw 'angels' or what she took to be angels there in the room with us. She said there were some standing beside her and standing by me. She talked about the lines of energy flowing through the room and about a yellow dust that was everywhere and it was flowing into these lines of energy. She talked about a beam of light that came from my head and went up into theses lines as well and saw other colors of beams of light coming from everyones head, like my dad and the nurses.

After on life support she was unconscious for 3 days. When they started to wake her....she still saw this energy and dust for about 2 full days though it was slowly fading.

It did not go along with her strong belief system fully but some of it did.

I believe there is a universal spirit/mind that is tapped into when the body starts to fail. I believe peoples experiences offer them mostly what they need for comfort but can also offer them things to think about, with the ability to see 'life' with a more divine eye then a earthly eye.











My point is...I dont think we can assume anything beyond what we know in this life. There are way too many different experiences even though there are similarities to them such as love, comfort, bright lights.

LV



posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 09:57 AM
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Also...my grandfather....who was a avid fisherman daily throughout his life...experienced things for the 2 days before his death. While awake and asleep. The 2 worlds blended together.

His heaven/experience...was him being on the most beautiful river with his old dog who had passed that he used to take with him fishing every day. Of course, they were fishing....in his 'visions'. This wasnt for a moment before death...it was for 2 days before he died. He didnt understand while awake why everyone couldnt see his old dog...who he said was in the room under his hospital bed. Similar..my mom couldnt understand why we all couldnt see the energy lines, yellow dust, and the angels.



posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 10:21 AM
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reply to post by wigit
 

I have known two near death experincers in my life, one being my step father. He is an A/C technician/installer and has been for almost 33 years. Back in the 90's and in his early thirties they were in Miami after Hurrican Andrew came ripping through the city. While there he was working on units of a Condo, he thought his buddy had turned off the voltage and when he was tinkering with the machine it blasted him backwards to where it knocked him off his feet. He says that he could see his body laying on the floor and saw his buddy run over to him and shake him. He could even here his friend screaming his name and telling him to open his eyes. My stepfather said he was shocked at what he was seeing it was as if he was looking down from the ceiling. Anyways his friend started to smack him in the face with full force trying to wake him up and by the time his friend smacked him the third time my stepfather said he opened his eyes and he was on the ground looking up and his buddy hugged him and started crying!!

My second NDE was a co worker of mine who had a stroke, and he said he did see the light, he said he heard angels calling his name and he was at peace, but a voice told him it was not his time and sent him back, but he didnt come back , he said that he was in the top left corner of the hospital room ceiling and he could see his wife holding his hands, crying and praying, he saw his boss walk through the door and hug his wife, he went into great detail of what they were wearing and everything. He said he saw many visitors and he thought it was just one day, but turned out to be a span of two weeks. When he did come too, he told his wife everything he saw and heard and his wife was shocked, she couldnt belive that the whole two weeks worth of people coming and going he knew what they were, what they said, if they were drinking coffee, he say it all!!! But to him he said it felt like it was just one day.....crazy stuff. There is more to this life!! I know there is



posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 10:30 AM
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reply to post by LeoVirgo
 


In 95 my uncle has a heart attack and while he was in and out of conscienceness he said he saw his father standing next to the bed starring at him as if he was watching over him, and my grandfather has been dead since 1965..... He said at one point when he opened his eyes in a haze his father said "Shhhhhh go back to sleep my son" and my uncle fell back asleep. When he got better he said he wished he would of been able to talk to him since he hadnt seen him since he was 4!!
Heaven sounds nice, we have lost to many family memebers in my family... I think it will be like having a nice big family christmas again.....



posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 11:56 AM
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A scientific explanation does not constitute a scientific proof. Viz Lamarck's ideas on evolution versus Darwin's explanations. AT no time haver the detractors of NDE's offered a proof of their explanation. I would call this sloppy science. Also once proved their hypothesis to a satisfactory level they should then offer a corolloary ID induce a NDE complete with visions of a culturally relevant afterlife.



posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 01:30 PM
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My mother had an obe/nde when I was born( yeah I know bastard out of the gate, very difficult and long birth for her). She's very spiritual and religious, I don't think she's ever told a lie in her life, she just doesn't make things up. When I was very young (6-7ish) she told me the story. Her story was this , she said she went out of her body and could see herself on the hosp bed, my father and sister in the next room( waiting rm I'm guessing), said she went thru a tunnel of sorts that had a bright light at the end, when she got there she was told it was not her time and to go back, next thing she remembers is looking at me. She said it was the most peaceful and serene experience of her life and has absolutely no fear of death after that experience. I always questioned it, the obe was hard to grasp as a kid. The older I got and the more stories I've heard about nde, her explanation was pretty much exactly what I've heard others talk about. I have no doubts that what she said happened. Was it just the brain shutting down or was she going somewhere? IDK. The fact she was able to go outside of her body, blows my mind. If the brain was shutting down would this be possible and what would be the purpose of being able to see things in another dimension, such as her seeing my dad and sis in the next rm? I guess it could be a hallucination of what she had visually in her head. This subject has always facinated me.



posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 01:35 PM
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I'm no Scientist, but I disagree with them in this case.

Tell me then, guys - how do you explain OBEs - like when the person is floating above their body and are able to recall conversations when the person was clinically dead????




posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 10:20 PM
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Hi

I have enjoyed reading posts to this thread. Thread readers may be interested in a new book about NDEs just out in the USA. Dutton have just published "The Spiritual Doorway in the Brain," by US neurologist Kevin Nelson. He states that "What I have discovered is that the switch in the brainstem that regulates these three states functions differently in people who have NDEs."

I have posted about the book at anomalies-australiancomments.blogspot.com...

It makes very interesting reading.

You might also like to take a look at the Australian blog at ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.com...

edit on 9-1-2011 by keithb because: Incorrect URL previously.



posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 10:51 PM
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reply to post by tiger5
 



One of the problems is still one of scientists brushing everything under the carpet.


Really? You're going to try to pretend there's a conspiracy of scientists :bnghd: Claiming scientists are "sweeping" evidence of the paranormal under the carpet without evidence is pointless. It's also completely backwards. Any scientist who could find evidence that there is in fact an after-life would be a super-star over night both in and out of the scientific community. Anyone with solid enough evidence to make it through peer review would quickly become the most famous scientist in history.



It is only anecdotal because there is no scientific research to back it up.


And anecdotal evidence is entirely useless in science. What we've learned about NDEs thus far, as far as science is concerned, is that they are likely dream-like hallucinations produced as the brain dies.



but will also have to say "I don't know" they may even qualify the previous comment by adding "It seems unlikely".


This is exactly as it should be. We don't know, we have insufficient information to claim that the paranormal definitively is or isn't real however it does seem unlikely given what we understand about death that NDEs are actually glimpses of an actual after-life. Maintaining an open-mind is crucial to science but it doesn't mean we toss out skepticism and ignore what we already know about brain chemistry and the process of death.



Why are you such an evangelical skeptic?


I used to believe a lot of things that I no longer do because of skepticism. Ghosts, bigfoot, Nessie, alien astronaut theory, etc. I didn't realize at the time that accepting these things based on anecdotal stories and a handful of unexplained experiences wasn't a smart thing to do. Skepticism is important, the world needs more of it not less.

I like to think of myself as an evangelical agnostic in that in no way do I believe that ghosts, bigfoot or Nessie definitely do not exist but I think skepticism and uncertainty is important when it comes to extraordinary claims as is keeping a high standard of evidence.

reply to post by Eonnn
 




If it were purely hallucination you'd expect to see completely different experiences with nothing common amongst them all.


How are you making this call? I'm not a brain scientist and I'm guessing neither are you so where exactly do you get the idea that we would expect hallucinations to have nothing in common? Simply because its a hallucination doesn't mean it has to be random. There are thousands of people who claim to see visions of Jesus or have alien visitations, there are plenty of people who hallucinate similar things. Given that we live in a culture where belief in an after-life is common I think it makes sense dying brains dream of similar things.



Also, reading peoples stories about taking '___', all their experiences seem to share commonalities


Again I'm confused as to how similarities imply that the experiences are somehow real. If anything they suggest that human brain chemistry is similar, so similar that taking a compound such as '___' results in the same sorts of experiences.



brain releases dmt when you born, when you sleep, when you die. sounds to me like something to help the soul transition.


We have evidence for '___', we don't have any evidence for souls. Seems pretty straight forward to me that NDEs are just the last dream before you die. That doesn't mean there is no afterlife, just means that NDEs are not evidence for that afterlife, no more than my dream last night proves that I own a flying car.



posted on Jan, 10 2011 @ 01:40 AM
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reply to post by Titen-Sxull
 

Some great points Titen,I tend to think it's the brain dying out and when this is happening, I'm sure the time frame is different than in real life, so what may have felt like a long journey, may actually be fractions of a second.
As I mentioned above my mom had this experience. Well.. she called tonight and I asked her some more about what happened, she said she road in a cart of sorts up a mountain lined with trees to a bright light, she said there was a door/gate that was open and Jesus was standing there and they just looked at each other and no words were ever exchanged but she was turned around and sent back. She said tonight that she didn't want to leave and it was the most peaceful feeling she's ever had and the most beautiful place she had ever seen. If I had to guess I think it was a hallucination/dream state. The reason I say that is because she said Jesus looked just like your stereo typed vision of Jesus which she has a mental picture of. What I find interesting is the similarities of the people describing nde's the bright light, obe, peacefulness and the beauty they see.



posted on Jan, 10 2011 @ 10:17 AM
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reply to post by Titen-Sxull
 


Hi Titen


Since you are a critical thinker...what do you think about people being outside of their body and being able to retell about something that they could of not known unless they were really outside of their body?

Ive seen this proven by dreams and near death experiences....at least proof to me.

So what say you?

LV



posted on Jan, 10 2011 @ 11:33 AM
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reply to post by Titen-Sxull
 


Scientists are brushing anecdotal evidence under the carpet. The way in which you cut my post benefited your argument but also led to a straw man argument. The case for an official bias in the scientific community is clear to those with eyes. Again a scientific explanation is only that. an explanation does not constitute proof of hypotheseis. There is no proof to support the hypotheseis that the NDEs is the random firing of a dying brain. The phenomenon is far too codified and structured.

Please give me your explanation

I do not believe in the greys nor the ETH hence I am skeptical.



posted on Jan, 10 2011 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by thestepper2012
reply to post by nightrun
 


The '___' "experience" happens at birth (actually in the womb once you hit the pineal development), when you sleep and when you die.

My opinion: The "experience" is entering, maintaining and exiting the temporal realm we know as reality.


'___' can also be released during meditation. Also know as "The Third Eye" in spiritual terms.



posted on Jan, 10 2011 @ 12:05 PM
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Funny how certain things that happen to people require a "scientific" explanation that refutes what the original occurrence is.

If multiple people, over many years, in many places, have the same experience it is a scientific fact. So, folks who see a doctor who cures them of some ailment are correct, scientifically speaking, when they say the doctor cured them.

When thousands, if not millions, have had a near death experience, and nearly all say the same thing - within a range, they are simply wrong and another explanation must be given - one that refutes their experience. So their first hand, personal experience is simply wrong and must have an explanation that says it is foolish and delusional to have experienced what they experienced. They are not talking about their beliefs, but their experiences.

In science "experience" is good science only when it is good science, if it isn't good science experience is simply hallucination. One of the great things about the religion of science is that experiences are no longer valid, they are simply delusional beliefs until a model can be worked up and demonstrated to validate the experience. The rather hysterical conclusion is that "experiments" are exactly the same as "experiences."



posted on Jan, 10 2011 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by crankyoldman
 


Sorry for the following technical sounding post. Just trying to be accurate with these thoughts.
It's all been said before.

Strong adherents to Scientific Materialism get defensive and
difficult about stuff like NDE's, non-physical intelligent entities, etc. One must admit,
however, that there are some lazy thinkers out there who'll believe anything.

Those who propose some form of the hallucination argument are protecting themselves from the implications (for whatever valid or invalid reason.) They often fail to keep a critical distance from their argument. This alone should give us pause and question the supposed "rationality" of their arguments. Science is an extremely valuable method, not a set of ultimately settled propositions.

The hallucination position is a decision, not a rational position. It includes many unfounded assumptions, such as "I'm just like everyone else, I'm normal. I haven't seen it and your procedures don't make me see it. Ergo, it doesn't exist." Other unfounded assumptions include assuming that there is nothing outside or very much outside the boundaries of what can be demonstrated by repeatable experiments on objects as measured by other objects. Appeals to the "success" of science are empty emotional appeals, not valid arguments. Here's a typical ladder of assumptions: 1. Those practicing the scientific methods on physical phenomena are inherently qualified to pass judgment on all phenomena. 2. The consensus of scientists will eventually explain everything as caused by physically measurable processes.

But let's be fair: Adherents of Scientific Materialism make many great contributions by
disciplining their thinking to only consider that which meets their stringent physical
and repeatable evidential criteria to be rational and real.

The best scientific judgment regarding NDE's is "We don't know, but here are some interesting statistics about the accounts and the people reporting them." The decisions regarding whether NDE's are personally relevant is left to the individual.

What's my view? I've enjoyed enjoyed hours of research into the NDE stories for what they might be capable of revealing about the multi-verse. Their greatest value in my opinion is to urge us to drop our rigid divisions and preconceptions about one another and to act on our highest moral standards.

Peace and Love to All



posted on Jan, 10 2011 @ 01:38 PM
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Humours me how viciously people attack Science when a hypothesis that goes against ones own view is put forward. The same people turn to 'pseudo-science' to 'prove' their own views.



posted on Jan, 10 2011 @ 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by someotherguy

Originally posted by wigit

Near-death experiences 'explained': Scientists believe it's the last gasp of a dying brain




Scientists are so stuck in their little 3D material box that they just cannot accept that consciousness exists outside of the material. They really think that the brain is the source of consciousness, don't they? lol


I suppose David Icke is more credible than the Science community. What with all the evidence he brings to the table.

It strikes me as ironic that those victim to ridicule turn around to ridicule others. You enlightened individual, you



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