Near-death experiences 'explained': Scientists believe it's the last gasp of a dying brain

Near-death experiences 'explained': Scientists believe it's the last gasp of a dying brain

www.dailymail.co .uk

Many patients who experience these sensations believe they are having a religious vision and treat it as confirmation of an afterlife.
Some revived patients even reported seeing religious figures such as Jesus, Muhammad or Krishna. Others said they felt suffused with a sense of peace as they start to walk into a light-filled tunnel.

However, the intensive care doctors at George Washington have an alternative biological explanation, which has been published in the Journal of Palliative Medicine.
A team led by Dr Lakhmir Chawla used an electroencephalograph (EEG), a device that measures b

(visit the link for the full news article)

Like the other bloke in the article I'd too treat this with caution. I'm convinced that I will go on after my body dies, in some other conscious, or even unconscious ( to be wakened again some time) reality. That has to be what the universe is about.

Otherwise, If I'm totally finished the moment I die then I take the universe, and you, with me.
Don't I?

www.dailymail.co .uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by wigit


As far as I knew, the release of '___' in the pineal gland was the cause of near death visions. '___' also releases when you sleep so it's like hallucinogenic stuff and then there's the "drug" '___' which is the same stuff but can give you a peek into a different world as well.

But, as I understand it.. The visions are simulated.

Originally posted by wigit




Otherwise, If I'm totally finished the moment I die then I take the universe, and you, with me.
Don't I?

Umm... I said that the wrong way. No otherwise about it, when I die I take the universe with me anyway. My one. You're all still left with your own.
That's why it's called the multiverse, we got one each

That '___' sounds like powerful stuff but when folk are standing outside their bodies watching what's going on in the room, then take a wee flight outside to look at the scenery and there's ZERO brain activity, how can that be explained as '___'? Especially when these stories come with that long "consistent narrative" of experience, including stuff they shouldn't know anyway and not a mere jumble of thoughts.


[edit on 30-5-2010 by wigit]

But, as I understand it.. The visions are simulated.

Near death visions are probably nothing but lucid hallucinations in a semi-conscious or unconscious state...but near death experiences, where people leave their bodies and observe and recall everything they witness, in stunning detail, whilst their physical body was apparently unconscious, is something else...there are several weird and profound unexplained cases of NDE's...my Mum has a story of her own which is probably more convincing than any other evidence for me, because I trust what my Mum told me without doubt...after everything I've seen in my life, I have no doubt we all posses a potentially immortal spirit/soul/consciousness, or whatever you want to call it.

[edit on 30/5/10 by CHA0S]

reply to post by wigit


The article is not really conclusive as it says “may have a biological explanation” and “may be the cause of near death experiences”. '___' of course is in the same boat.
And to answer your question about the universe and me still existing after you have expired, look around you, people are dying all over the place and you are still here! Or are you somehow more important or relevant?
Lastly, the universe doesn’t have to be about anything.


Edit to add.
I see you have brought in the "multiverse" perhaps this unproven mathematical theory helps to convince you of your own immortality?

[edit on 30-5-2010 by midicon]

Hey, I'm confused already trying to work out how/why things are (thought that was obvious) and you throw stuff like this at me.

Originally posted by midicon
And to answer your question about the universe and me still existing after you have expired, look around you, people are dying all over the place and you are still here! Or are you somehow more important or relevant?

Sorry I'm not as smart as most people, I do try, but I don't understand the question.

Originally posted by midicon
Edit to add.
I see you have brought in the "multiverse" perhaps this unproven mathematical theory helps to convince you of your own immortality?

It does. But not immortal as in "this person who I am will always exist", but I think I will be awake again, after this life, some place and in some time.

You can explain a lot of NDEs with the "flood of chemicals in the dying brain" but this is not the response for all the NDE experiences.

vimeo.com...

reply to post by nightrun


The '___' "experience" happens at birth (actually in the womb once you hit the pineal development), when you sleep and when you die.

My opinion: The "experience" is entering, maintaining and exiting the temporal realm we know as reality.

reply to post by wigit


What are you confused about? In truth I was merely responding to your posts and not “throwing stuff at you”. Sometimes my tone is rather dry but I mean well.
To put it more simply, when you die the world and everything else will probably soldier on! When someone else dies you don’t cease to exist do you?
Bringing in the idea of the multiverse conveniently sidesteps the obvious and is an attractive alternative.
What makes you think you will be awake again? Or do you just “know”?

reply to post by thestepper2012


Your description sounds good to me. I have yet to have a full blown '___' experience, but from what I have read it sounds like '___' has y some control over what dimensions our present consciousness observes.

I have no sources, other than my personal experiences, but I may try to find studies looking for support/refutation...

In my opinion, dreams, out-of-body experiences, hypnogogic hallucinations, astral projection, and psychoactive tryptamine compounds all have a very similar feel to them. They feel to me as though they share some mechanisms in how they change consciousness from wakefulness. This could support the theory that '___', or some other tryptamine or tryptamine like compound(s) are the driving force behind near death experiences.

I've heard that cannabanoids (sp?) have been found in the brain, these are the psychoactive alkaloids found in the female hemp plant.

Originally posted by wigit

Near-death experiences 'explained': Scientists believe it's the last gasp of a dying brain

Scientists are so stuck in their little 3D material box that they just cannot accept that consciousness exists outside of the material. They really think that the brain is the source of consciousness, don't they? lol

I agree with most of you on this forum that NN-'___' not (5meo-Dmt) is the relevant part of the hallucinogenic effects of death and near-death. It is most definitely a natural substance but its also illegal. also a little side note when you die your senses start to fail one by one such as touch then hearing then smell then taste etc.
i dont know the order they fail in but i know after those senses fail your brain lives for exactly 2 more minutes then suffocates from lack of oxygen caused by the sense failing.

If the last 'act' of my brain, here on Earth, is to see 'GOD" then what does that say about what has been important about my life?

It's so funny to me - science calls something another name, they put it in different terms, and everyone is suddenly like "Oh, but there's science that says that's just trickery."

Nothing has changed. The brain still does what it has been doing- it's best to perceive reality.

The idea that matter acts as the source of consciousness has been around for about 200-300 yerars. Prior to that, for the entire duration of mankind's existence on earth, the opposite view was held--that consciousness acts as the source of matter--hence, the ancient notion that the universe and everything in it was "created" by an all-pervading (omnipresent) conscious being. This amounts to a field theory of consciousness.

The ancients also believed that consciousness can neither be created nor destroyed, but can only change forms. This amounts to a conservation principle of consciousness, which lies at the basis of all the ancient notions about the immortality of the soul (consciousness).

The truth is that modern scientists have a very poor understanding of consciousness, based upon phenomenological data. They do not really understand what consciousness is at all---nor do they have any idea how "brain activity" creates "mental impressions". In between brain activity and the mental impressions associated with them is a big black box, indicating an unknown process.

The conclusion that near death experiences are a product of reduced oxygen levels in the brain during the process of physical death, seems logical---from the modern objective paradigm of modern science. But in the absence of any deeper theory of consciousness, it should not be taken as the gospel truth. The history of science is rife with one theory being replaced by another deeper theory, and we have a long way to go before we understand everything, including consciousness.

Perhaps the ancients were correct. Perhaps there is a universal field of consciousness that pervades all space and time, which is more fundamental than the fields of force and matter. But there is no such theory in modern objective science, hence they have to come up with alternate explanations that fit the modern world view. In my opinion, the modern world view is fundamentally flawed in this regard. We would do well to respect the opinions of thousands of generations that came before us.

reply to post by wigit


A fascinating topic but this theory is not new. There is also speculation the tunnel of light people repeatedly describe is a simple memory of birth and exiting the womb. They feel in death it might be perfectly understandable to remember the "other" most significant event...being your birth.

I don't believe them.

I saw a documentary of people from all walks of life and from many areas of the world who experiences sometimes lengthy NDE's. It was so shocking to me there is no way I can believe they did not actually have these experiences and undergo these transformations.
Everyone of them said they were no longer afraid to die. They all reported a sensation that felt like the most exquisite and "unconditional love."

I want to find a documentary that has been done on the most heinous, vile and evil people like serial killers and mass murderers who have also had NDE's. It is a great curiosity of mine for awhile. I must know if they report these same types of experiences.

It seems they must and that alone baffles me.

It's so funny! How can scientists pretend to measure what the mind goes through when dying? Sure, they can measure the physical reactions at the moment of death, and '___' might be a hallucinogenic drug that the brain discharges before death... But the question is why does the brain try to protect the mind from the shock of death, even in a smooth one?

It looks more like a reflex mechanism to alleviate the transition from this state to the next. Because once we have left our shells, what can scientists keep on measuring but an empty shell? The EEG is only attached to the body, not the mind...

[edit on 30-5-2010 by Aresh Troxit]

Originally posted by someotherguy
Scientists are so stuck in their little 3D material box that they just cannot accept that consciousness exists outside of the material. They really think that the brain is the source of consciousness, don't they? lol

What makes you more qualified than a scientist? What are you adding to the discussion other than personal opinion? Truth is that science doesn't really know - and you don't really know! Don't confuse the unknown with what you wish to be the truth. Chances are that they are entirely different!

IRM

My grandad had a near death experience in 1957 when he was crushed by a coal trolley down the pit. For the rest of his life he swore that there might not be a god but there certainly is a "Something". This something let him know "it's not your time yet Tom, you have to go back", and he did.

I haven't been near death but once while swimming I got into trouble and thought I was going to drown. I immediately separated from my bod to a position of a few feet back and to the right and was able to watch myself screaming and struggling to get up for air. I remember thinking a "what the heck is this?" kind of thought but I was no longer drowning or struggling for breath. I think there was darkness behind me but in front there was my body entirely separate, as if it was another person. Anyone watching would have seen the same as me, a drowning, screaming little girl in about 5 feet of water. It was panic, pop-out, panic over, pop-back-in. It wasn't a hallucination.

That's why I think my consciousness will survive my body.

reply to post by wigit


I also had a similar experience when as a child I almost drowned in our local swimming pool. After going under a few times I couldn't hold my breath any longer and just decided to breathe in. As my lungs filled with cold water I was suddenly at home with my parents and siblings and happy! I "came to" a few moments later after the lifeguard fished me out none the worse for my adventure. What does this mean? nothing really perhaps the body's coping method for stress kicks in and the brain gets a large dose of something or other, seems likely to me!