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Warning: Crash dead ahead. Sell. Get liquid. Now.

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posted on May, 30 2010 @ 03:11 PM
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Originally posted by boondock-saint

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
Do you have any idea how much money it would take to take delivery on 1 GC contract?

that is EXACTLY what they are counting on
your weakness to corner the gold market
by force


Originally posted by GreenBicMan
Also, I can buy the GLD on Monday morning, sell it Monday afternoon, and if I am up I make money. So how is that not profiting?

It's not profiting if the dollar is deflating
and gold is increasing
plus ur paying a trading fee
ur losing money


Originally posted by GreenBicMan
How many people do you think can take delivery for 100 Troy oz. of gold?

Only TPTB
and that doesn't include you
or 95% of Stock Traders

all of u r being used
to perpetuate the cycle
and ur money is being tossed
to TPTB

wake up
Wall Street is no different than
walking into a Casino in Vegas.
The house ALWAYS wins
It was designed that way


Dollar deflating?

Last I checked the DX (US DOLLAR INDEX) is around 90. Again educate yourself. Start Here Once More. Do some research instead of being lured into some hypothetical what-if situation that the members of ATS love to perpetuate.




posted on May, 30 2010 @ 03:18 PM
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reply to post by GreenBicMan
 

no offense bro

but when u lose everything
and file bankruptcy
don't come crying


u were warned
plenty of times



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 03:20 PM
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Originally posted by hawkiye

What you seem to fail to understand is that gold does not go up or down in value it is static and has been for thousands of years. The only thing that fluctuates is the amount of pieces of paper traders believe it takes to trade for gold. And that paper is not money it is fantasy, it is pretend and it will soon return to where it came from; NOTHING! When it does Gold will still have the same purchasing power it always has.



[edit on 30-5-2010 by hawkiye]


I fail to understand that because it isn't true. Gold in 1970 was 35 dollars/ounce. Are you saying the dollar has been devalued that much since then to constitute gold being almost 1300 dollars an ounce now? That would be like saying a middle class house in 1970 cost 30,000 dollars back then and that same house would cost around 1.2 million dollars now. A house in 1970 that cost 30K would not cost 1.2 million right now. 35 dollars in 1970 did not equal 1300 dollars in today's money. So either gold was UNDERVALUED (and thus not worth the same as it always has been) or is OVERVALUED right now. Your defense is gold is always FAIRLY valued. Always constant. Yet nothing has increased that exponentially from 1970 to 2010...not even public college education or healthcare!



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by boondock-saint
reply to post by GreenBicMan
 

no offense bro

but when u lose everything
and file bankruptcy
don't come crying


u were warned
plenty of times



Look boondock. Say you guys are right and the USA defaults and hyperinflation ensues and what not. We are all going to be screwed. Not just the people who held dollars. You don't want to live in a world without the U.S. Government. Gold bars will not protect you. Only a lot of guns will.



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 03:30 PM
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Originally posted by tothetenthpower

I just don't agree with economists coming on TV or in Journalism screaming for worst possible scenarios and encouraging behaviour that by itself would lead to a more unstable market.

We have to be VERY careful about the markets if we want to sustain them, although IMO that's pretty much impossible at this point.



With all due respect, if hope and faith are the only things keeping the market afloat, it needs to crash.

Stock prices may very well be based on things like "consumer confidence" but the question is, "Should they be?"

Or should there be a more stable way of valuing a company than simply the whim of the gamblers that particular day?

Another question is, do we really want to sustain the markets if they are not working properly? One of the reasons I personally was opposed to the bailouts is because if you prop up a building that has a screwed up foundation, you are buying time. Not solving the problem. Some problems require a complete tear down in order to reconstruct on a more solid foundation. The Wall Street Casino may well be one of those things requiring a complete tear down.



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 03:34 PM
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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 


All markets can be called a casino as there will always be speculation in markets. There always has been and always will be. A tear down of Wall Street won't change human psychology.



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by hawkiye
 


I hate to break it to you but gold is only as good as what it is priced in. Good luck having a "useless dollar" and still having gold worth anything. At that point it is in the eye of the beholder. Try trading all your gold for 10 cans of soup in a eat or die scenario. At that point your gold is as worthless as my shoestrings.

I am not saying we will see this, and I am certainly not agreeing that our dollar will ever be worthless in those terms. But what you are stating is not making sense.

If your scenario were to come true, we would have no electricity in this country. So tell me how one would start to put a price on gold, where it could be traded, and who would trade it when it is worthless because it is not priced in dollars or any currency traded in the USA?


What do you think was used at the inception of this nation and enshrined in the constitution? And for 5000 yrs prior? You need to go back to high school and finish history.

By the way, thanks for illustrating my point so well with your little back-and-forth between yourself on the last page. You need to see a shrink.


As far as past posts, you can post up whatever you want, but don't do any selective editing. In other words, you post a link back to the thread so everyone can do diligence.



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 03:49 PM
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Originally posted by MrDarlingFace
reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 


All markets can be called a casino as there will always be speculation in markets. There always has been and always will be. A tear down of Wall Street won't change human psychology.


Of course, life is full of uncertainty. BUT at least remove the extremely risky gambling like high frequency trading, derivatives etc.

But that will never happen while former Goldman sachs employees are advising Obama, and the insider's will continue to get richer whilst everyone else loses everything.

[edit on 30-5-2010 by john124]



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 03:54 PM
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reply to post by MrDarlingFace
 



Gold bars will not protect you. Only a lot of guns will.


I suppose that means buy guns as well then, for Americans.

Shops would be looted for food and that would disappear fairly quickly, but you'd still need gold/silver to trade for food that can be grown during the harvest months.

The WSJ article says people will become farmers and therefore trade with their neighbours. Gold may help people start their farms and buy the relevant equipment and from then on, grow their own food and trade locally. They'll need a constant supply of fresh water, which could be a problem.

Those prepared will know which equipment to get long before the masses ever realise that food in shops won't last forever.

[edit on 30-5-2010 by john124]



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by MrDarlingFace
Look boondock. Say you guys are right and the USA defaults and hyperinflation ensues and what not. We are all going to be screwed. Not just the people who held dollars. You don't want to live in a world without the U.S. Government. Gold bars will not protect you. Only a lot of guns will.

precisely the point
BINGO

take ur money out of the markets
invest in ur survival, like food, water,
guns, ammo. Make plans to evacuate
urban areas and head to rural ones.
Have an escape plan ready.

when the power goes out
do u think ur gonna get
anything out of the stock market?
Not a chance.

ur investing in the wrong place

not in a money market future
but in your families future

survival

best wishes in the coming days



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 04:04 PM
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reply to post by MrDarlingFace
 


"Markets" as you are using the term, to refer to stock markets may very well always be casinos. And you may be right, gambling may well be part of human psychology. But maybe we need to consider if gambling casinos are the heart of human culture? Do we jump in and bail out Vegas casinos when they start to crumble? Do we bail out individual gamblers in those casinos when they bankrupt themselves? No. We dont.

It also has never been considered wise to take your lifes savings to Las Vegas in order to plan for retirement.

Human beings and human civilization actually managed to come a long way without stock markets. Stock markets came about to help facilitate the progress we were already making, back in the old days, when individuals raised cash for their ventures in other ways. If what is happening in markets today is NOT facilitating our progress as a society, as humans, then it is not unreasonable to consider trying something else. Stock markets are not so deeply embedded in the history of human progress that it is impossible to extract them from our very DNA.

In the last 200 years, the market has brought this country to its knees twice. If these dire predictions are right, it may be about to happen again.

It may behoove us, before we let everything crumble around us, to consider whether or not there is something fundamentally wrong with the way the markets act. It may also behoove us to ask ourselves if the markets are serving our collective goals as human beings. Or if they are serving the goals of a very few at the expense of everyone else.

I am not saying I have all the answers. I am just saying that some very important and reasonable questions are not being asked here. And they are not being asked because we are being fed the idea that the only way to make society work is to keep forcing it forward rather than let it topple over. (Bicycle theory)

No one is asking whether or not the direction we are moving is fundamentally a good one. No one is asking whether or not it might be better to "topple over" than to continue moving forward. But logically, when you are on a bike, sometimes it IS better to topple over than to continue moving forward. Especially if you are near the edge of a cliff.

They are questions worth asking ourselves. Continuing to pursue a method that brings catastrophic collapse every century or so may not be our best option.



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 04:07 PM
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reply to post by john124
 


John...if there is no authority, how do you know gold will be worth anything is disaster strikes? How do you know we don't go on a bartering system? How do you know we don't just sink into chaos and wars without a government? Gold does not hold any value. The only value it holds is belief, just like fiat currencies. Food and water holds intrinsic value...gold isn't used for anything but jewelry.

If a disaster that large occurs, I would rather just die anyway. Much rather go to sleep or go to hell for all I know than live in a true and utter hell that a total collapse of the system will usher forth. Nobody here knows what it is like to be truly desolate and scared. You think gold bars will allow you to buy a farm? lol. If they accept it. Many people may not accept gold. They may say you need to give me your daughter for my farm lol. We could be going back to real old times and those times I don't want to visit.



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 04:13 PM
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Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar
 


A run on the dollar?

What the hell are you talking about?

I should take the time to go back 1 year ago and link to some of your ridiculous comments from back then. I am surprised actually I am even taking the time to comment on your pitiful views of the economy.


I feel for you.

You speak as a person fully immersed in fear.



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 04:14 PM
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reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar
 


This isn't the 1700's brainiac and I do not have to make up lies and half truths when I have been defeated in a debate.

Your comments are getting tiresome.

Here, Ill make some laughing faces to drill down the point that I am laughing at you on the internet


God, you are a #ing tool aren't you. Enjoy your life of mediocrity.



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 04:15 PM
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Originally posted by john124
Gold may help people start their farms and buy the relevant equipment and from then on, grow their own food and trade locally. They'll need a constant supply of fresh water, which could be a problem.


I am not bashing your post, but I do want to point out that you can currently get to the purchasing of land without making a pit stop at gold.

US dollars still work. And land in some fertile areas that have abundant water is still relatively cheap. You can buy an acre of land for less than the price of an ounce of gold in some areas. Land is currently inexpensive in many places. Gold is at an all time high. It seems to me the better deal would be to buy that which has inherent value, but which is currently undervalued, rather than that which has a more subjective value and which is currently at a historic high in price.

Just a thought.



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 04:15 PM
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Originally posted by blujay

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar
 


A run on the dollar?

What the hell are you talking about?

I should take the time to go back 1 year ago and link to some of your ridiculous comments from back then. I am surprised actually I am even taking the time to comment on your pitiful views of the economy.


I feel for you.

You speak as a person fully immersed in fear.


What?



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander




I agree that stock markets have not been around forever but bubbles and mass speculation has. Read about the Tulip Mania in the 1600's for example. The problem with your insinuation that we don't really need stock markets as we haven't always had stock markets is that we also haven't had the same economy, technology and companies. In the early 1800's, you went to Joe's tackle shop for your one pair of trousers and wood. Now you go to Walmart for 10 pairs of underwear in a bag and get some ice cream and get a DVD. So things are a lot larger, a lot more complex and thus the capital structure is more complex and requires more ways to raise capital quick and efficiently.

Furthermore stock crashes do not cause economic downturns. Stock markets are a symptom of the economy and sentiment. If Apple's stock crashes it doesn't crash the economy. But if unemployment goes to 20%, then Apple's stock will crash...

Furthermore, I do agree that gamblers and market participants should not be bailed out. I think everyone can agree on that. I also have stated that trading can be termed as gambling, but it matters on how you MANAGE your gambles that makes you a loser or winner.



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 04:21 PM
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Originally posted by MrDarlingFace
reply to post by john124
 


John...if there is no authority, how do you know gold will be worth anything is disaster strikes? How do you know we don't go on a bartering system? How do you know we don't just sink into chaos and wars without a government? Gold does not hold any value. The only value it holds is belief, just like fiat currencies. Food and water holds intrinsic value...gold isn't used for anything but jewelry.

If a disaster that large occurs, I would rather just die anyway. Much rather go to sleep or go to hell for all I know than live in a true and utter hell that a total collapse of the system will usher forth. Nobody here knows what it is like to be truly desolate and scared. You think gold bars will allow you to buy a farm? lol. If they accept it. Many people may not accept gold. They may say you need to give me your daughter for my farm lol. We could be going back to real old times and those times I don't want to visit.


Gold will always have an intrinsic value because of its rarity as a precious metal. People will trade whatever they have as long as somebody else wants it, and those who have the most gold will be in a better position. When a new society emerges, those with the most gold will rule the kingdom with the army they'll afford to pay,clothe and feed. Of course there's no absolute guarantee that it will save you.

Gold may buy a stake in a farm or a plot of land, especially from farmers who weren't able to maintain the whole of their land due to workers going AWOL. They'd have to see an advantage to selling a portion with vested interest and reliable trade.

Even Somali pirates invest in each others hostages, buying shares in potential ransoms. People will always find a way to do business with whatever they have.

Perhaps certain skills would be more useful than gold in these situations, and obviously water/food is the most valuable asset we could have... along with guns/ammo for countries where guns are legalised.

[edit on 30-5-2010 by john124]



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 04:24 PM
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reply to post by MrDarlingFace
 





I fail to understand that because it isn't true. Gold in 1970 was 35 dollars/ounce. Are you saying the dollar has been devalued that much since then to constitute gold being almost 1300 dollars an ounce now? That would be like saying a middle class house in 1970 cost 30,000 dollars back then and that same house would cost around 1.2 million dollars now. A house in 1970 that cost 30K would not cost 1.2 million right now. 35 dollars in 1970 did not equal 1300 dollars in today's money. So either gold was UNDERVALUED (and thus not worth the same as it always has been) or is OVERVALUED right now. Your defense is gold is always FAIRLY valued. Always constant. Yet nothing has increased that exponentially from 1970 to 2010...not even public college education or healthcare!


You really should study history. You can't rap your mind around the fact the dollars are just paper and have no intrinsic value in relation to gold and silver. The dollar has been devalued 97 percent since 1913 and rebooted several times. The supposed valuation of the dollar today is a joke a fantasy. the only reason it is still afloat is belief and the fact the US bilked the rest of the world to invest in it and they are now afraid to dump it and loose everything. The price of gold in dollars has been fixed by government fiat and are just paper and meaningless, the purchasing power of gold has remained constant since the days of Rome.

As for the 1970's home prices some places were that low however the Real estate market was artificially inflated by banks creating money from on signatures so again it is not a measure of the value of gold. Gold had always been able to purchase the same amount of goods and services through out thousands of years of history with very little fluctuation which were temporary and usually due to monetary collapse of fiat currency systems. Which is why it has always been a store of value and even the Keynesians are buying up gold to protect thier wealth.

www.census.gov...

www.marketoracle.co.uk...

www.24hgold.com...



posted on May, 30 2010 @ 04:24 PM
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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 



US dollars still work. And land in some fertile areas that have abundant water is still relatively cheap. You can buy an acre of land for less than the price of an ounce of gold in some areas. Land is currently inexpensive in many places..


Then perhaps buying fertile land & acquiring the skills is a worthwhile investment whilst the price is cheap using dollars when they're still around.



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