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2nd Question for Atheist.

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posted on May, 29 2010 @ 08:15 AM
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I've read other people's like Dawkins idea's and principles and I understand where he's taking his unbelief with funding for childrens camps and teaching seminars.

You as an ATS regular poster Atheist what do you hope to achieve by teaching your unbelief to others? What do you hope to accomplish?




posted on May, 29 2010 @ 08:19 AM
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Originally posted by Loken68
I've read other people's like Dawkins idea's and principles and I understand where he's taking his unbelief with funding for childrens camps and teaching seminars.

You as an ATS regular poster Atheist what do you hope to achieve by teaching your unbelief to others? What do you hope to accomplish?


There's not such thing as an "unbelief". I can't believe you want to open and honest and productive conversation but your imediatly mock their position from the get go.

Good job!

As I was saying Atheism IS a belief. From your OP I can assume that you have already made up your mind about Dawkin's even though you have just as much proof that God exists than he has for Evolution.

I'm not an atheist, but I'm not a theist either. The idea that one man in the sky watches everything that you do, loves you, but yet will send you to an eternity of brimstone and fire is a little ridiculous.

Sounds like my 4 year old having a temper tantrum.

~Keeper



posted on May, 29 2010 @ 08:22 AM
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Originally posted by Loken68
I've read other people's like Dawkins idea's and principles and I understand where he's taking his unbelief with funding for childrens camps and teaching seminars.

You as an ATS regular poster Atheist what do you hope to achieve by teaching your unbelief to others? What do you hope to accomplish?


I was not aware that due to anything Dawkins was doing that the rest of us had an agenda we were supposed to be following. What should I be hoping to accomplish with my beliefs? Are we all out teaching our "unbelief" to others? If so, I am in big trouble because I have not shown up for work in like ever.



posted on May, 29 2010 @ 08:24 AM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 



but yet will send you to an eternity of brimstone and fire is a little ridiculous.

Yes, it'd be ridiculous if that was the whole story. Fortunately, it's not. God has given everyone the chance to choose to avoid an eternity of fire and brimstone. If someone doesn't accept his offer, it's not really God sending them there are much as they are choosing for themselves that that's where they'd like to spend eternity.



posted on May, 29 2010 @ 09:39 AM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


You send yourself to the fire and brimstone by willful disobedience.



posted on May, 29 2010 @ 02:35 PM
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Although not an atheist, I do see some trends in the current crop of atheists. Now I once was an atheist and from that view point I find some of the atheist posters here being inconsistent. Here are some of the things I noticed:

1. Some seem to be on a mission to tell the whole world that "there is no God and it is all a myth".

There is one poster on ATS who has posted the same page word for word at several different forum boards (I have the links to prove it), and that poster subsequently attempted to engage other members in a discussion about its contentions. This person seems to be making a career out of presenting his view point to the world.

Some atheists appear to be spending more time discussing what they consider a mythical subject than most Christians do in discussing God and the Bible. Look at some of the threads in the "Conspiracies in Religions" on ATS and on this forum. A good case in point is a thread I started in "Conspiracies in Religions" dealing with inconsistent atheist actions. Well guess what? Not one Christian other than me responded in that thread. Only atheists responded and apparently none read the first paragraph except for one poster (who did not ask the one question I thought I would be asked). Only one theist added a response to that thread. Post a thread saying "The Bible is the Word of God", you will find the "usual suspects" posting "No, it was written by men alone, etc.".

2. Several atheists here have a double standard. I have seen postings with references to "a magic sky dude" , "Christians are mindless zombies", etc. They are basically mindless diatribes against Christianity. If a Christian were to post a equivalent diatribe against atheism, they would go whining to the mods to have the posting removed. Some feel they can make assertions without evidence to back up their statement. When asked to post evidence to support their statement, the response is "You are calling me a liar - go look it up". Yet Christians are suppose to support any statement with links, expert opinion, quotes, etc.

3. Atheists (not all) seem to complain about Christians pushing their beliefs "down their throats". (Really I have never shoved a Bible down anyone's throat, although I have been sorely tempted). However these same atheists "show up" in the same part of the forum night after night. My question is if you feel that "religion is being pushed down your throat", then why did you enter into the "Religions" portions of this forum on your own free will.

In conclusion, I would say that certain atheists have an agenda, and that is to spread their belief system with a missionary zeal that would put Livingstone to shame.



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 04:16 PM
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I think OP brings up a good point regarding certain promotions of atheism. I'm reminded of the billboards saying, "There's probably no God" and that sign put up next to a nativity scene a few years ago basically saying, "There are no gods, all religions are fairy tales, etc."

The interesting thing is that other times I've heard theists debating atheists and the theist will ask something like, "Well, what's the evidence for your position?" to which the atheist will respond, "Whoa, whoa atheism is not a positive position, it's a rejection of theistic claims." Ok, that's fine in itself, but it makes these public displays seem a bit odd.

I'm not trying to rag on atheists in general, I'm just saying that if someone takes the view that atheism is simply a "rejection of theism" and that same person is actively participating in some of these campaigns I would say that's a little hypocritical or at least kind of puzzling.



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 04:20 PM
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Originally posted by Loken68
You as an ATS regular poster Atheist what do you hope to achieve by teaching your unbelief to others? What do you hope to accomplish?


I don't "teach" my lack of belief to anyone.
There's nothing to teach. So, there's nothing to accomplish and I don't know who Dawkins is.

I'm assuming I'm not a very "good" atheist, huh? How embarrassing.



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 04:23 PM
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reply to post by jagdflieger
 


For someone complaining about how much atheists talk about religion, you sure seem to have a lot to say about atheism.


I'm just sayin'.



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 04:35 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Well I am theist, what do you expect. Especially when some atheists always talk about "brainwashed zombie Christians" and make statements that Christianity is based on Horus, Isis, etc. without ever quoting any evidence to support their claims. It is my job as a Christian to defend the faith with refutation (apologetics) to such claims.



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 04:41 PM
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Originally posted by Loken68
You as an ATS regular poster Atheist what do you hope to achieve by teaching your unbelief to others? What do you hope to accomplish?

I don't and being accused of "teaching unbelief" to others is offensive. I am not trying to indocrinate anybody yet you are implying I am.. not only that you are trying to portray atheism as something negative.

I post my opinions as an athiest on this board as it is a dicussion board and that is what we are meant to be doing. Discussing stuff.

..yet you act as though atheists are committing some underhanded act just for joining in these discussions? So what do you hope to accomplish when post such antagonistic anti-atheist threads teaching your belief to others?

Glass houses.


[edit on 31-5-2010 by riley]



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 05:04 PM
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Originally posted by jagdflieger
Well I am theist, what do you expect.


Unfortunately, I expect just what I read in your post. A bunch of negative judgments about atheists. I am trying to show you that you are operating under the same double standard that you're accusing atheists of.

According to your post, atheists:

Seem to be on a mission to convince people of their beliefs.
Shouldn't even be interested in discussing theism.
Complain about religion being forced on them.
Have an agenda which they wish to spread.

All of these can be said about theists, too. They:

Seem to be on a mission to convince people of their beliefs. (Hello? It's their "job", supposedly)
Shouldn't even be interested in discussing atheism.
Complain about atheism being forced on them.
Have an agenda which they wish to spread.

And when I present this to you, you say, "Well I am theist, what do you expect"? That's lame.
That's all I can say about it.



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 05:15 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 





Unfortunately, I expect just what I read in your post. A bunch of negative judgments about atheists. I am trying to show you that you are operating under the same double standard that you're accusing atheists of. According to your post, atheists: Seem to be on a mission to convince people of their beliefs. Shouldn't even be interested in discussing theism. Complain about religion being forced on them. Have an agenda which they wish to spread.


Where did I say "all atheists" in my post? Did you see the phrase "all atheists"? Did not I use the words "some", "certain", "a particular atheist", "several"? The way you responded then I must assume that you consider yourself in the category of the "some atheists" or "several atheists" to which I referred; otherwise, you would not have responded because the "several atheists" to which I referred would not have been applicable to you.



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 05:28 PM
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Originally posted by jagdflieger
Where did I say "all atheists" in my post?


In the same place that I did.


Calm down. I'm not trying to push my beliefs on you or anything. You're just being TERRIBLY judgmental about atheists in general and I pointed out that you're acting like you accuse them of acting. I don't blame you for not liking that mirror held up to your face. But it is what it is.

I don't want to take this thread further off topic. So I'll apologize to the OP for doing so and I won't engage further in OT discussion.



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 05:39 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 




You as an ATS regular poster Atheist what do you hope to achieve by teaching your unbelief to others? What do you hope to accomplish?


Original OP, do you have an agenda to teach your unbelief?



Calm down. I'm not trying to push my beliefs on you or anything. You're just being TERRIBLY judgmental about atheists in general and I pointed out that you're acting like you accuse them of acting. I don't blame you for not liking that mirror held up to your face. But it is what it is.


When I use the words "some" is that a response about atheists in general. And I am being calm. I just pointed out that my posting did not apply to all atheists only "certain atheists".



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 06:00 PM
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reply to post by jagdflieger
 


So why is teaching unbelief wrong and teaching belief right? Are you saying your way is better? The OP equates atheists posting on an internet forum as "teaching unbelief": A theist posts he is merely discussing or "doing his/her job" yet an atheist posts they are "trying to accomplish" a premeditated"something" like it's all part of a grand atheist scheme to teach unbelief. What a double standard.



posted on May, 31 2010 @ 06:32 PM
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reply to post by riley
 





So why is teaching unbelief wrong and teaching belief right? Are you saying your way is better? The OP equates atheists posting on an internet forum as "teaching unbelief": A theist posts he is merely discussing or "doing his/her job" yet an atheist posts they are "trying to accomplish" a premeditated"something" like it's all part of a grand atheist scheme to teach unbelief. What a double standard.


What did I say?

1. SOME seem to be on a mission.... ONE posted same page several boards.

Is that you?

2. SEVERAL atheists here have a double standard as far as backing up their statements ....

Is that you?

3. Atheists (NOT ALL) seem to complain about Christians pushing their beliefs, but they willingly enter into the "religions discussion forum".

4. In conclusion, I would say that Certain atheists have an agenda, and that is to spread their belief system with a missionary zeal that would put Livingstone to shame.

Is that you?

Present a view point back up with fact is one thing. But presenting Christians as mindless zombies (and I can show you the postings) is another. You can post your view point, do get upset when I refute you with my view point. If you have a problem with the OP, take it up with him. If you really want to know, I will tell you what agenda I want to implement.



posted on Jun, 1 2010 @ 09:13 AM
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reply to post by Loken68
 


Im not a Atheists, but I hold nothing against them either.

I raise my children with a open mind. I dont claim to them that I 'know' there is a book with all the answers, especially a book that holds killings in high regard.

I raise them to seek within themselves, use critical thinking, and to always find their own path...not to just follow someone else, even me.

My son, who is 13 now, who has had a phenomenal experience with a being of light at age 5 and who has witnessed his grandmother having a NDE that involved Jesus, a heaven of sorts, and many other things....has said just a week ago to his sister, who is 12....that he did not believe in heaven. This upset the my daughter, for she finds much comfort in the idea of a 'place of rest' after we die.

Later, I sat with my son, just to ask him some questions to see where he was coming from. I didnt intend to convince him of anything. He said...'its not that I dont think there could be a heaven, but I just dont know for sure'....'If I dont know for sure....I dont want to just 'believe' in something I dont know'. I asked him what he thought his grandmother saw the day she almost died....and he replied....'mabey it was what she created for herself'....I asked him if he was trying to say she made it up in her mind....'no, he said, I think she really saw those things, but mabey we all have different places we make for ourselves'.

Ya know...for 13....I did not feel the need to make any more suggestions to him. I felt for his age...he was using what critical thinking he had available to him. He is well aware of the Bible, my book shelf is full of them along with commentaries. Although I dont claim any religion, I study them all, and I also read books by philosophical atheists. WHY? Because I think we should challenge our own thinking...I should not feel that another 'idea' should scare me or intimidate my own view. Usually, everything I read strengthens my own view.

Up till age 8 for my oldest child, we went to church regularly. They were raised in the church and that the Bible was the word of God. The last time we were in a church...was during a Bible school for kids. My daughter came home one night and cried herself to sleep because she was scared of going to hell and that God didnt love her. She wept of being ashamed. She wept of feeling not good enough for God.

We havent stepped a foot back into a church. Now, I raise them in the outdoors to find a 'peace'. I share my personal beliefs, if they ask, and often, they do. And obviously, at age 13, they know Im not going to 'make' them believe in something that they have no understanding of.

I think we should encourage children to think critically, and I dont think that it is going to be important to God....which man from our past we choose to believe. The important thing is...do we have understanding of past things and why a man experienced what they did. To teach children that they will be punished for 'what they cant see' is dangerous to their need to think critically. Some children will need comforting ideas, and heaven may comfort them. Some may need to find comfort in not banking on a 'belief' of another man...and I find that fine as well.

Surely, forgive them for what they do not know....stands as wise words.

It took me several years to twist out of the fearful not placed into me while a child....that I would be punished for not taking another mans word for it. The fear was ridiculous...and I hold resentment for that fear being placed into me. Especially when I learned through experience, God has always loved me, will always love me beyond measure, has never left me, and is waiting on me to figure it out, without force of any kind.

So then my path, truly began.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 03:59 AM
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reply to post by Loken68
 


What the hell is unbelief ?
I have never tried to teach what it means to be an Atheist to anyone .
Cheers xpert11.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by Loken68
 




I've read other people's like Dawkins idea's and principles and I understand where he's taking his unbelief with funding for childrens camps and teaching seminars.

well there is a huge differnce between unbelief and belief.
Churches offer free services and go off donations. They target children of a young age in an effort to brainwash them and indoctrinate them with christian principles and how much better they are than people who do not share their beliefs. The children will also be tough that they should convert their friends and family because only God offers salvation of their souls.

The Atheist seminars are sometimes free and target children of a young age in an effort to educate them and teach them Atheist beliefs and principles and how much better they are than people who do not share their beliefs. The children will also be tough that they should eductate their friends and family because only atheisim offers salvation of humanity.


You as an ATS regular poster Atheist what do you hope to achieve by teaching your unbelief to others?

To get everyone to be educated.



What do you hope to accomplish?


To have everyone in the world become an atheist. Once that happens there will be no crime and no polution, it will be like heaven.

[edit on 2-6-2010 by zaiger]



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