Scrapping of ID cards/removing info from database., page 1

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Topic started on 29-5-2010 @ 06:29 AM by Rickyboy999

I realize it will save a lot of money in the future, and I agree with scrapping ID cards etc, but surely this goes against the NWO goal? How did the Global Elite let Cameron do this?

reply posted on 29-5-2010 @ 06:47 AM by DISRAELI

reply to post by Rickyboy999

Logically, the choices seem to be;
a) question whether the "global elite" really wants ID cards
b) question whether the "global elite" really controls Cameron's government

[edit on 29-5-2010 by DISRAELI]

reply posted on 29-5-2010 @ 11:29 AM by Rickyboy999

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by Rickyboy999

Logically, the choices seem to be;
a) question whether the "global elite" really wants ID cards
b) question whether the "global elite" really controls Cameron's government

[edit on 29-5-2010 by DISRAELI]

But I thought the Global Elite wanted ID cards etc???

reply posted on 29-5-2010 @ 11:49 AM by Merriman Weir

Originally posted by Rickyboy999

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by Rickyboy999

Logically, the choices seem to be;
a) question whether the "global elite" really wants ID cards
b) question whether the "global elite" really controls Cameron's government

[edit on 29-5-2010 by DISRAELI]

But I thought the Global Elite wanted ID cards etc???

You only thought that because sites like this told you that was the case. Like the vast bulk of things that get talked about on this site, fairly often things don't pan out like a lot of the talk suggests.

That said, for all this Tory Lib Dem anti-Big Brother stuff, there's other stuff that's happening too. The Digital Economy Act, something that Clegg initially said he was against and would repeal - then amended his statement to something less against the government grain - has basically allowed it to happen. Not really a big deal to many people, however, the only way that this Act is going to be doable is surveillance on massive scale and outright presumption of guilt from the start.

I honestly think that if wasn't part of the deficit cuts, despite their previous talk, I think the Coalition would have left this to go ahead. After all, some of the big election promises have gone out of the window already after only a couple of weeks: NHS operations are being cut back, Proportional Representation out of the window...

reply posted on 29-5-2010 @ 02:29 PM by Bunken Drum

IMO, its a mistake to think of "global elite" as a noun, but more as an adjective. There is no single group involved in an overarching deliberate conspiracy, but rather a series of conspiracies involving constantly changing factions of individuals & the groups they control. Of course, there is an implicit overall conspiracy, which is that, whatever these individuals do in their own interest, also benefits all of them by maintaining the conditions in which elites prosper at the expense of everyone else.
That said, whether or not Cameron's crew do or dont want this kind of control over us, the plain fact is that the current state of national IT initiatives shows that there is no way that ID cards & a DNA database could be made to work securely. Worth bearing also that, unless the cards themselves can be manufactured to be extremely robust, then any services that they may be required to access would also have to have a more traditional backup, such as providing other ID & a signature, so currently, whats the point of the expenditure?

reply posted on 29-5-2010 @ 03:11 PM by Merriman Weir

Originally posted by Bunken Drum
That said, whether or not Cameron's crew do or dont want this kind of control over us, the plain fact is that the current state of national IT initiatives shows that there is no way that ID cards & a DNA database could be made to work securely. Worth bearing also that, unless the cards themselves can be manufactured to be extremely robust, then any services that they may be required to access would also have to have a more traditional backup, such as providing other ID & a signature, so currently, whats the point of the expenditure?

The world and his wife and their dog knew the ID card scheme was flawed, whether on a technological basis or on an ideological one. I genuinely think that New Labour's push in this direction wasn't an Authoritarian one. Whilst that may sound messed-up or like an apologist or even that I wanted an ID card (none of the above, actually), I do, however, think it was still a little 'clandestine'. I think it was basically a very weird revenue raising scheme tied into to the PFI bollocks that New Labour was so enamoured with. Lots and lots of money changed hands in a fantastic amount of deals related to PFI, particularly through the NHS (which is now basically privatised, all you anti-socialist scaremongerers out there), prisons, schools (the new Coalition are picking the ball-up and running with this with the schools) and IT schemes. The latter has seen massive amounts of money passed around but nothing to actually show for it.

Regarding 'elite' conspiracies. I generally don't buy into them as they don't actually make sense. Fairly often they're tied into agreements/bloodlines/trusts and so on where aims are united and torches and batons are just passed on generation to generation. If these people are so greedy for wealth and power, the reality is that there'd never be real agreement. It would be a constant power struggle between rival faction and a competition between competing New World Orders, not one single one.

reply posted on 29-5-2010 @ 06:14 PM by buddha

the way I see it they can get all the info on us they need.
the ID card is just to get us going!
then they say.
“ ok! we will let YOU win”
they never intended to use the ID cards.
just to let you think you can keep your freedom.
let you think you are in control.
hahahahaha suckers ...

reply posted on 30-5-2010 @ 03:24 AM by Bunken Drum

reply to post by Merriman Weir

I agree regarding the authoritarian aspect of the ID scheme. I think New Labour's plan was to save money in the long term by getting rid of tons of physical paperwork in Policing, the NHS & Benefits. The trouble is, it was sci-fi from the get go.
PFI really is 'son of quango' with even more incentives & opportunities for corruption. Still, the NHS is way better now than it was in 97 & I dont see how that could have happened otherwise without major tax increases. Would anyone have stomached that?
Apart from the corruption tho, what I also worry about is the culture of privatisation. Ever since Thatcher began it, there has been far too little regulation to guarantee quality of service & price to the customer. I suspect that the investment in PFI was attracted with the expectation that it would end up being similar to the energy industry, water, rail services etc. where a little spent on infrastructure then allowed considerable price rises with little or no improvement in service &, of course, vast salaries for management.
I dread to think how the ConDem education plan is going to work out. A similar plan has failed in Sweden.

reply posted on 30-5-2010 @ 04:24 AM by Merriman Weir

Originally posted by Bunken Drum
reply to post by Merriman Weir
I agree regarding the authoritarian aspect of the ID scheme. I think New Labour's plan was to save money in the long term by getting rid of tons of physical paperwork in Policing, the NHS & Benefits. The trouble is, it was sci-fi from the get go.
PFI really is 'son of quango' with even more incentives & opportunities for corruption. Still, the NHS is way better now than it was in 97 & I dont see how that could have happened otherwise without major tax increases. Would anyone have stomached that?

I'll agree to an extent. In some ways the NHS is better but, as someone who works in a hospital, I also think it's worse. I think that PFI has been over-costly as well as back-door privatisation.

Apart from the corruption tho, what I also worry about is the culture of privatisation. Ever since Thatcher began it, there has been far too little regulation to guarantee quality of service & price to the customer. I suspect that the investment in PFI was attracted with the expectation that it would end up being similar to the energy industry, water, rail services etc. where a little spent on infrastructure then allowed considerable price rises with little or no improvement in service &, of course, vast salaries for management.

I'll hold my hands up at this point and point out that I'm a socialist so my views on this are fairly obvious. I've been following PFI stories for a long time; as they're very, very rarely mentioned in mainstream press, I have Private Eye to thank for keeping me informed on this and they've been fairly savage about much of it over the years. Privatisation is #ed. It's an elephant in the room for many people. For all the hoo-ha about capitalism, enterprise, big state and so on, any one who says they're better off with privatised water, rail and so on is an idiot or has shares in these companies. What makes it worse is that the taxpayer is still paying out many of the companies that are now 'privatised' through subsidies. Another area of privatisation that is skirted around is housing. This country is retarded when it comes to the housing market and has been brainwashed by Thatcher. What's to celebrate about rising housing prices when there's actually a housing crisis?

I dread to think how the ConDem education plan is going to work out. A similar plan has failed in Sweden.

the problem is, not enough people think in the first place. They vote reflexively: I'm tired of these now, so I'll vote the others in. The current coalition is a novelty but pendulum voting will still be the mechanism behind voting whether we're putting one cross in a box or a several as with Alternative Voting (where's the PR, Clegg?).

I think we're #ed but too many people are in a honeymoon period over the Coalition to realise it.

reply posted on 30-5-2010 @ 04:31 AM by Tiger5

I hated the entire notion of ID Cards. I have difficulty remembering anything more than my keys and and wallet when I leave the house. I felt that ID cards would have been another opportunity for criminals to make money by forgery. Besides we already also have picture driving licences and passports so why have another form of ID?

And then backing up the card carrying in law and having to pay for it??

Good riddance! I used to be a labour voter but that was the last straw.

[edit on 30-5-2010 by Tiger5]

reply posted on 30-5-2010 @ 05:39 AM by Bunken Drum

reply to post by Merriman Weir

Well, I wouldn't describe myself as a socialist, because I draw my views from a wider part of the political spectrum, both to the left & right of a classic socialist position, but I agree that there are some things which are so important & universal that they should be exclusively under public control. Not just for the ethics, but also practically & financially, it makes more sense that the provision of basic needs we all share is the profit. Its not only not necessary for anybody to be making a cash profit when they are sharing the benefit of a better society, but its counterproductive.
Anyway, we're getting OT. Do you have a thread about PFI? If not, I'd be interested to contribute if you start one.

reply posted on 30-5-2010 @ 05:45 AM by Bunken Drum

reply to post by Tiger5

Good riddance! I used to be a labour voter but that was the last straw.

Do you mind telling us who you voted for this time? I voted LibDem.
As it happens, the Labour candidate won, so it makes no difference. However, if the LibDem had won & not resigned the whip before going into coalition, I'd have been gutted.

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